Still Have Concerns

[Kaidonni]

Thought I'd film the Minnows again tonight, I think I whacked one of them in the face or body with a pipette as I was trying to rotate the thermometer to be a bit more vertical (it was at an ever-so-slight angle). If I didn't hurt any of them, I probably came pretty close. I whacked or bumped them with the TDS meter the other night (thought I'd mentioned that in a previous post, apparently not) as they thought they were being fed (I can forgive them for that, lifting the lid opening and sticking something into the tank usually gets their attention). I need to be more careful around them...
 
Also, in that video, the one male Minnow at least can be seen doing that tail and fin curving I mentioned yesterday, at about 27-36 seconds in, maybe earlier too (I focused specifically on that male Minnow from the 17 seconds mark to 48 seconds). Possibly the one female Minnow in the background in the first 10 seconds, and 1 minute 6 seconds onwards to 1 minute 35 seconds (at 1 minute 30 seconds she bumps into a plant leaf). They might do it at other times in the video, to be honest I haven't observed the video that closely. The other Minnows might do it also, but I have definitely noticed it with that male and female Minnow.

 

[Kaidonni]

I've dialled the light to turn off at 9.33pm tomorrow night, I'm stopping the 5 minute drops now (it turned off at 9.35pm tonight, down from 9.50pm on Friday, 9.45pm on Saturday and 9.40pm last night). While it probably wasn't too big of a jump each night to go 5 minutes earlier, I can afford to do it more gradually (2 minute drops).

 

[Kaidonni]

A final observation - temperature in the tank according to the thermometer ranges from 21C-23C, perhaps slightly above, not sure about below, but at the very least 21C-23C. Slightly warmer than I wanted for White Cloud Mountain Minnows (maximum is 22C). Heater is still turned off (unplugged).

 

[Byron]

A final observation - temperature in the tank according to the thermometer ranges from 21C-23C, perhaps slightly above, not sure about below, but at the very least 21C-23C. Slightly warmer than I wanted for White Cloud Mountain Minnows (maximum is 22C). Heater is still turned off (unplugged).

 
Without the heater, the tank water temperature will be mainly governed by the ambient room temperature.  Tank lighting will raise the temp slightly at the surface when the lights are on, but this is not usually an issue as it is minimal.  I wouldn't worry about temp now.

 

[Kaidonni]

Thanks. Any comments on my other posts from the 4th April onwards to today and my video - including the reducing the lighting hours and the Minnows curving their backs - or should I just relax? I'm getting there now, I think...gradually.

 

[Byron]

Thanks. Any comments on my other posts from the 4th April onwards to today and my video - including the reducing the lighting hours and the Minnows curving their backs - or should I just relax? I'm getting there now, I think...gradually.

 
I saw nothing of concern in the video respecting the one fish.  As for the lighting, you were being extraordinarily cautious (which is not really a bad thing in this hobby, by any means) but I usually adjust light in hour increments.  I have reduced it by an hour when needed to control algae for example.  B.

 

[Kaidonni]

I decided to film the algae some more, along with taking some photos. It looks like I might have green algae, which I've read is a sign of low or depleted phosphate levels. I'm not sure if I have any blue-green algae (I focused on that at 21-31 seconds in). Also, I need to focus on cleaning the algae off the back of the tank during my next water change... I took some photos and also filmed the algae on the glass in front of the heater wire - Algae5, Algae6 and Algae7, and 1 minute 46 seconds to 2 minutes 43 seconds in the video. Before that section, I also filmed the algae on the glass by the filter and in front of the filter wire, from 1 minute 20 seconds to 1 minute 46 seconds.
 
Also, there's a photo of the snail, who looks larger now.
 
I tested TDS tonight with the meter, and it ranged from 230ppm to 235ppm, with 233ppm the average (I don't leave it in any set amount of time, I just dunk it in and leave it until I'm satisfied the reading has stabilised...not really that scientific! I do turn it off and wait 10+ seconds after each time, though).

 

[Byron]

When dealing with troublesome algae, I never fuss over this or that mineral/nutrient or water flow.  The fact of the matter is that algae occurs naturally, where there are nutrients and light.  Trouble or problem algae in a planted tank occurs because the balance between light (intensity and duration, individually or together) and nutrients is off.  To explain that...plants need a certain balance to drive photosynthesis, and each plant species is a bit different (which is why a mix of many different plants sometimes causes problems particularly in low-tech or natural method planted tanks).  If the balance is there for the plants, algae will be disadvantaged because the plants will use the light and nutrients pretty much full out.  It is only when something is no longer sufficient, or alternatively in excess, that algae has the advantage.
 
Another interesting thing is that different types of algae can occur in this or that aquarium, even when we assume the aquaria may be fairly identical with respect to light and nutrients.  And don't forget that nutrients includes the fish load and feeding, plus the minerals in the source water.  I recall Rhonda Wilson who used to author the monthly plant column in TFH writing more than once that in her fish room with several dozen tanks running under basically the same conditions, she found one type of algae would be a nuisance in some tanks while another would occur in others.
 
The algae on the glass is primarily due to light, so that should be relatively easy to deal with by reducing the light duration (always start with duration before considering changing the intensity which usually means different fixtures/types of lighting).
 
The dark almost black algae on the leaf/leaves of what appears to be Vallisneria is probably a form of brush algae.  It is not always easy to tell from photos, and it might be cyanobacteria (the so-called blue-green algae, a slime that will easily rub off with your fingertips whereas brush will not) but more likely brush.  The stuff on the glass in the video is I think not cyano, at least I hope not; this can be a real nuisance.
 
Byron.

 

[Kaidonni]

I actually meant to type green-spot algae, re: low phosphates.
 
Any concerns on my bumping the fish with the TDS meter or potentially whacking the fish with the pipette? Obviously if any harm has been caused I'll be able to tell (hopefully!), but still...
 
Are my TDS at an acceptable level, or could they be lower, especially for White Cloud Mountain Minnows?
 
Also, is it any easier to ID the snail by my latest photo? Thanks.

 

[Byron]

I actually meant to type green-spot algae, re: low phosphates.
 
Any concerns on my bumping the fish with the TDS meter or potentially whacking the fish with the pipette? Obviously if any harm has been caused I'll be able to tell (hopefully!), but still...
 
Are my TDS at an acceptable level, or could they be lower, especially for White Cloud Mountain Minnows?
 
Also, is it any easier to ID the snail by my latest photo? Thanks.

 
I still say, forget about phosphates, this is only one of 17 nutrients.  Be careful using the TDS and try not to hit the fish.  The snail is probably an acute bladder snail...sorry, I did look this up last time and then forgot to mention it.  Bladder and pond snails are very similar in shape, but the colour pattern here leads me to think it is a bladder snail.  Nice snail in a planted tank.
 
On the TDS, I have never measured mine, even though I have soft water fish, and this is more of a concern with soft water than hard water fish.  The minnows are more adaptable here.  My tap water is near-zero in TDS/GH/KH so the only TDS will be what I cause with fish load, fish food, plant ferts, water conditioner, etc, and there isn't much I could do about any of this, so I ignore it.  But that is just me in my situation.
 
Byron.

 

[Kaidonni]

I conducted some water tests today with my new kits, and it's the first time in almost 4 weeks I've tested with anything except the TDS metre. I did it under daylight conditions, although whether they were optimum or just okay is something else entirely. Using the Nutrafin tests, nitrites look 0ppm as best I can tell, and ammonia is still giving me that low reading. The pH is between 7.0-7.5 as best I can tell.
 
Nitrates I'd say 20-50ppm, I have a little difficulty reading it. Holding flat against the booklet it's a deep violet, so I hold it away from the booklet and it matches somewhere along the colour chart more closely. I don't think it'd be towards 110ppm or above that. Or at least, I hope not...
 
I'm not sure exactly what the Nutrafin ammonia reading is, it's most noticeable that I do have a reading when I hold the test tube flat against the booklet (so it might be that, while I have a slight reading, it magnifies it - there is a great deal of shadow involved, and possibly light reflecting back through the test tube, but it maybe not the cause of what I'm seeing, or I might just be making things up). It is harder to see the reading when holding the test tube away from the booklet, it does look closer to 0ppm if there is a reading. But, it could be anywhere from 0ppm to 0.3ppm - or maybe more, even somewhere up to 0.6ppm (although I don't think it is, it did look clear enough) - based on how the colour should change on the Nutrafin ammonia test for the 0ppm to 0.6ppm range. API ammonia is quite difficult to make out, it could be 0ppm, it could be 0.125ppm, it could even be 0.25ppm - that one all depends on how I'm looking at it and my interpretation (it's possibly my least favourite test to interpret).
 
I never fill exactly 5ml, but to the 5ml line. The pipettes I use are somewhat unpredictable; sometimes I can get a perfect 2.5ml into them, other times it might be a little above or below. Squeezing a little bit of the water out to lower the measurement might cause air bubbles to affect it, so then I have difficulty telling precisely what I have in the pipette. Sometimes the water starts right at the tip of the pipette, others a little way up towards the 0.5ml line. The only real way I could probably get 5ml into a test tube is to use a syringe, probably with some clever but complicated idea of mine on how to get the water from the tank into the syringe without getting my hands in the tank, etc.
 
I did do some of the testing when the living room was being polished, and also shortly afterwards, so I had the lid of the tank up to take water samples. I also left the the pipette on the side by the tank and re-used it in the tank water when doing other tests and refilling the test tubes after washing them out in some tank water prior to testing - I always fill the test tubes with some tank water and shake them up prior to filling them with the actual test samples, as I don't always dry them after swilling them with tap water after completing previous tests. I hope I didn't put anything into the tank that way.
 
As for my water change today and the algae, I used the magnetic algae scraper to remove the algae about an hour and a half before I conducted the water change. As it had built up quite a bit, I also cleaned some of the gunk (Algae? Diatoms? Some sort of mulm? Not sure) from the heater cradle that attaches to the glass and holds the heater, not sure if I got much of it up when I siphoned the gravel lightly - I can't remember if that was before or after removing the first 7-8 litres, after which I proceeded to remove another 9 or so lites, but some of that 9 litres was with the water jug and not siphoning the gravel (so not as effective at removing detritus).
 
I cleaned the glass on the back of the tank also as regards the algae, but that was at the mid-point too (can't exactly remember, but I might be right). I just hope I didn't leave too much in the tank to decay and pollute the water. I kicked up mess when pruning and replanting some of the plants, and only got some of that in the final 9 litres. At least I think I did about 16-17 litres, or thereabouts.

 

[Kaidonni]

Carried out one more pH test just to be certain, I think it might be somewhere between 7.0-7.5 rather than 7.4-7.5 like I used to think. The reason being that I've now carried out the tests in daylight and two different artificial lighting conditions, and I think only the flourescent lighting pushes it close to 7.5. The lights in the laundrette and natural daylight seem to both suggest something lower, but still not 7.0. So perhaps 7.2-7.3.

 

[Kaidonni]

Saw a small bit of what looked like that possible blue-green algae left on the front of the glass tonight, tried to lightly scratch it off the outside of the glass with my nail as I thought it might have been something else on the outside, no luck, and then decided to use the magnetic algae cleaner to try to get at it. Didn't seem to budge, but the White Cloud Mountain Minnows thought I was about to feed them so they were at the top, swimming all around where the magnetic algae cleaner is...they darted quite a bit as I was trying to remove that small bit of algae. I probably shocked them or something, hope they'll be okay... Any comments on that? I think they might do it anyway, even if they weren't near the algae cleaner, as it isn't subtle to move it along the glass. It probably causes sudden vibrations they can sense, and scares and shocks them.
 
Probably scare and shock them just the same during a water change, especially since as I also use the algae cleaner then, but I still worry about how what I do affects the fish. I had to actually use it on the back of the tank on Sunday, but had to use just the half that goes inside the tank since I can't fit my hand down behind the tank, nor the outside half of the cleaner. The glass on the front looks quite clean, algae isn't coming back like there's no tomorrow, although I can still see bits of algae along where I've cleaned, it doesn't all come off with the rest - there are streaks here and there, and where I've cleaned what almost looks like a strobe or strip effect, with bits of the patches remaining behind. Despite this, the front is better than before. I'll have to focus on the back and the sides, as the far left where the filter is looks like it needs quite a bit more work.

 

[Byron]

There is quite a difference between "scare" and "shock" when it comes to fish.  I scare mine all the time; one disadvantage of a room dedicated to several fish tanks is that they are "alone" most of the time, except when I enter the room, so this scares them.  When I had fish tanks in more central areas in my condo, my continual movements around the condo meant they got used to it.  When I put my hand in during water changes, they would come up and try to nibble the hairs on my arm, they were so used to me.  No more.  But they recover quickly from such scares.  Shock by contrast can occur when the tank light suddenly comes on or goes off in a dark room; they can easily become so eratic they jump and hit the cover glass, or bash into the sides of the tank.  You want to avoid the issues that shock.

 

[Kaidonni]

Thanks. Good job I asked...I almost forgot to turn the lamp on in the living room for when the tank light goes off.