Still Have Concerns

[Kaidonni]

Just conducted the third 50% clean and a thorough gravel vac. Don't think I can be any more thorough than that without taking the plants and vacuuming where they are, but it might be too disruptive - or maybe not, but there probably has to be a line at which to draw the vacuuming. I probably still wouldn't be completely satisfied anyway, and as I've said before, I do not consider it sufficient to eliminate the problem if there are parasites - it's only a stop gap, to buy time. I'd never assume it got rid of all the parasites (except for in unique cases such as camallanus), and I'd be obsessive and alert anyway, watching the fish like an eagle for signs of further trouble.

The first 20 litres was colder than the tank water, so I decided to make the final 5 litres a bit warmer just to off-set. Only took 15-20 minutes to add the water, hope this wasn't too fast. I just had to fit the change in when I could.

I oversaw my father do the gravel vac yesterday, I don't think he was as thorough as I was on Sunday or today. He definitely wasn't, although he did vacuum the substrate and even had to restart the vacuum a number of times due to the pebbles blocking it (filling the main tube halfway!). I'm worrying about that now...

I also hope I washed my hands in cold water enough before conducting the change. I've had scented soap, anti-bacterial handwipe and alcoholic handwash on my hands today...I spent 10-15 minutes thoroughly washing them under cold water, rubbing all over them (not my wrists or my arm, they may have got dunked slightly too into the tank before I restrained myself).

 

[Kaidonni]

I've attached some photos, the quality isn't great. They show that the white spot/cyst has reformed on the female Minnow. It's more visible the closer she is to the front of the tank, but she didn't want to come to the front when I was taking these photos!

The male Minnow still has that spot above his eye, it appears to have grown a little, and it does have a translucent edge when I get a real close-up look at it. Not too sure about his mouth, it doesn’t look too good but no blatantly obvious signs of mouthrot such as a cottony-growth. His mouth is just whitish/pale/discoloured as best I can tell. If he has a tumour and a bacterial infection, it might just be age in his case. It’s definitely a separate issue to the female Minnow.

I’m considering the aquarium salts option – any particular type? Or just aquarium salt sold by any local fish shop? I've got some rock salt from the local fish shop. How should I proceed in dosing for White Cloud Mountain Minnows? Would 1g/litre work out okay? I was considering taking a litre out of the tank, dosing that litre with the salt and letting it dissolve, and then pouring that litre gradually back into the tank. At my tank's volume, I'd be looking at 47-48g.

 

[Kaidonni]

And for good measure, the male Minnow with the spot above his eye...

 

[Kaidonni]

I did feed a little bit of flake food tonight as I hadn't fed since last Wednesday. The female Minnow with the growth was slow to the punch, and didn't quite know what she was doing - the other Minnows out-competed her - but she did snatch a couple of flakes. Her body is a red-orange-golden colour (possibly normal, each of the Minnows seems to be a slightly different colour, and she does have an orange-golden sheen in videos I filmed back in March and April), and she does look slightly bloated. I'll consider feeding some pea either tomorrow night or Friday, but not much.

 

[Kaidonni]

Another five pics...

She does look fuller in the body from the front, so there may be slight bloating. I can't tell whether it's the remains of the cyst/tissue damage, or some other sort of growth. The pics obviously aren't stellar.

 

[Kaidonni]

Last trick up my sleeve with the female Minnow, a quick video I managed to film.

 

[Kaidonni]

I don't know if it's a cyst, or a growth of another sort, or even tissue/the angle of the scales where the original cyst grew. It almost looks like it's gone again, unlike in the video I put on Youtube. The other morning when the light was off, it looked like it had returned. I don't reckon I could go through 3x50% changes again, clearly I'm going to need to take another approach as it's a losing battle. The other Minnows so far don't show any similar symptoms *touch wood* I won't assume it's the cyst that returned, light can play tricks, but still...there's definitely something there, similar to the colour of her body, greyish-reddish. Possibly the damaged or healing tissue...
 
I also don't know if I'm noticing anything on her caudal fin. Possibly a tiny white dot. I don't know if it's large enough to be Ich or anything, I'll keep an eye on that for sure.
 
Another female Minnow was doing quite a frantic bit of flashing just now, I'll definitely observe her. I've had fish flash before and nothing come of it, but given the circumstances, I'll keep an eye out for repeat behaviour. I don't want to jump at everything, but I don't want to discount anything either.

 

[Kaidonni]

I'm carrying out emergency action as this evening, it appears whatever I could see on the female Minnow's right flank has eruped into an open sore. At one point, it looked like a small bit of tissue or pus or something came from the sore (looked like - it could have been something in the water she swam past, but not taking that chance). A 50% water change, thorough gravel vac, followed by dosing up to 2g/litre aquarium salt (to be upped to 3g/litre in the morning if necessary). I'll then conduct another 50% Sunday morning, and top the aquarium salt up. I can't use the Esha at this stage as I contacted the manufacturer, and they advised that even dechlorinators such as Prime can affect the medicine.

I've attached the video of the female Minnow. While she is active to an extent, she was hiding in some plants when I got home from work. She was also quite dozy when I fed the fish some flake food, and while she did eat a little, she spat some back out after taking it up and spitting it out a few times.

https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYl2mE1Z06U&feature=youtu.be

 

[Kaidonni]

Slight change of plan, as 9pm at night is not really the time to be mucking about too much in case something goes wrong. I'm opting for 1g/l tonight, then upping it to the 2g/l in the morning after ~12 hours, and finally up to 3g/l tomorrow evening. Dosing more gradually should avoid stressing the Minnows as I've never used aquarium salt before, and even 1/l looks like a lot to add all at once.

Measured it out on digital scales, and also took 2g off for the kitchen towel the salt was measured out on.

I did dissolve it in a litre of tank water first, and poured it in gradually, and as necessary added a little more water to the jug and waited for more of the salt to dissolve.

 

[Kaidonni]

I'll be upping it to 2g/l this morning. I'm not sure if I should conduct the next 50% this evening, ~24 hours after the first one, or if I can wait until tomorrow, around 11am-12pm, ~38 hours after the first one (as that's when my normal weekly clean is scheduled, along with a quick filter clean). In any case, this evening the aquarium salt levels go up to 3g/l.

Alternatively, I could conduct another 50% change this evening, replace the salt removed during the change, and do a 4-5 litre change tomorrow just to give the filter a quick clean, and up to 3g/l tomorrow. Or I could still up to 3g/l this evening.
 
EDIT: A small piece of kitchen towel - probably from last night when I dried out the water jug - snuck into the tank with the aquarium salt. I could have taken it out of the jug while I was dissolving the salt, but I didn't. It shouldn't hurt the fish, and I do worry over the smallest things.

 

[Kaidonni]

I conducted the 50% clean last night as planned. Today I was only going to do about 5-10 litres and a filter clean, but I endeavoured to push on to 50% again as the white spot I referenced on the female Minnow's caudal fin is still there, and there is also a second one on her caudal fin; unsure about her other fins, but definitely keeping an eye out. I'm suspicious that I'm about to experience an outbreak of Ich, and I've upped the aquarium salt to 3g/l or thereabouts - it might be a bit above due to the scales not being exact, nor the volume measurement of my tank minus filter, plants, heating apparatus, algae magnet and airstone. She's still hanging at the surface when the light is off, and the eruption looks like it's healing over or becoming a cyst again.

If this is Ich, then - if I'm not mistaken - it must have arrived via an external route; it can't just exist in the tank and not do anything. There have been no new introductions in over a year and a half, excepting plants and - most recently - snails (of which I'm now keeping an eye out and eliminating when I get the chance). Could it have started in the gills of the female Minnow, causing her to hang at the surface? No idea where the appearance of the eruption/cyst on her right flank, just behind her right gills, factors into this - is it something else, i.e. bacterial, or is it also likely Ich?

As per the white spots on her caudal fin, could it be any other parasite, or a certain bacterial infection? It's not fungal, and I've seen fin rot on a Clown Loach, so I don't believe it's fin rot.

In any case, I have both Esha 2000 and Esha Anti-White Spot and Velvet handy (got the latter many months ago 'just in case'...might have been a wise decision). I've never, ever, had Ich before *touch wood*... I'll have to wait at least 24 hours before dosing as the Prime might interact with them. The manufacturer has warned against using Prime with Esha 2000 in an email, so I can only assume the same problen applies to the Esha Anti-White Spot - waiting 24 hours should ensure the reductive potential of the Prime has been mostly exhausted, if not completely (hopefully completely!).

I hope it's safe to run the Esha Anti-White Spot alongside the aquarium salt treatment. As to the temperature treatment, I could turn the heater on and the temperature up, but as these are White Cloud Mountain Minnows and their maximum recommended temperature is usually 22C, I'm not entirely sure if the temperature treatment would be the best approach or do the Minnows much good.
 
EDIT: The two white spots do appear to be visible from either side on the caudal fin - unless there are spots either side and the female Minnow is moving too much for me to get a good look and notice that - so I don't quite know what to make of that. Could potentially be fin rot, or still Ich.
 
EDIT 2: The female Minnow now appears to be hanging at the surface even while the tank light is on.

 

[Kaidonni]

Possibly heavy gilling is evident when the female Minnow is hanging at the surface, and at other times too.

 

[Kaidonni]

Just one more observation - the female Minnow has curved her spine upwards and downwards at times. At one point yesterday, she was lying on the top of a Canadensis plant while the other Minnows were schooling by her, and she was at an angle and curving her spine (can't quite remember if upwards or downwards specifically).