12L Micro Tank

[Mamashack]

Well all tests good this morning ammonia, nitrite both a resounding 0, pH 7.8 as always. Didn't bother checking the nitrate as is was only 5 a few days ago.
I've been thinking about the chloride question if it should arise again. With my tank being so small I guess even a small increase in chloride would have more impact on such a small volume of water. What would happen if too much salt was added?

 

[daizeUK]

I'm not sure Mama.  I'm pretty sure that too much sodium can cause problems but I don't know more than that.

 

[Mamashack]

I might have to google it then, daize!
Whatever did we do before google came along? lol

 

[Mamashack]

Well on Dr Tim's Aquatic website he answered a question about whether adding salt to a freshwater tank prevents diseases. It all depends on where you live and what fish or live plants are present, but the amounts he suggested are much higher than the concentration TTA spoke of in his article. Around 3% or 3 gram per L which in my tank would be 34.5 grams salt. According to my calculation I would have to add 0.043g to neutralise nitrite. So to me it sounds like a small error in adding salt might not be too detrimental which is comforting should it happen again. Hopefully it won't!
Dr Tim link: http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/should-you-add-salt-to-your-freshwater-aquarium

 

[fm1978]

In a way, the more advanced shrimp keepers are always adding salts of some kind. For example, they start with RO water and then add salts to increase the GH and TDS values to where they want them to be and it's clearly not harmful for shrimp, in fact, it's a necessity. Then of course if you're a live plant lover you add other salts in the form of ferts.
 
I suppose the distinction this time is that it's a sodium based salt and that can have an affect freshwater life. My gut is telling me to stick to your low calculated dose for your cherry type shrimp but not to be too concerned if it's just a bit more. I've just quickly skimmed an article on another forum by a cherry shrimp keeper who doses aquarium salt at about 2 teas spoons per 5 gallons of water change water. He reported no ill effects.
 
In your specific case I'd be way more inclined to deal with the nitrite problem as you have done with salt than be concerned about the adverse affects of a small dose of the salt itself. Salt's probably OK in small amounts but any nitrate is most certainly very bad!

 

[Mamashack]

I think yesterday's result may have been spurious, but I'll keep checking it!

 

[daizeUK]

I thought that 3% salt was considered to be quite a strong concentration and normally would be used as a bath or dip rather than add to your whole tank and leave it.  Fish are usually only given concentrated baths for 30 seconds to 30 minutes depending on species and individual tolerance.
 
I think there is actually an error in Dr Tim's article.  He says that 3% salt is 3g per litre, but the density of water is 1g/mL so that's 3g of salt in 1000g of water which is 0.3% NOT 3%!!!  I think he really means 0.3% as 3% would basically be like sea water.  You don't want your freshwater fish in that for too long!
 
For example just a 1% salt dip is sufficient to kill columnaris.  In contrast your standard packet of aquarium salt will advise you to add 1 tbsp (= 3tsp) per 20L which works out as about a 0.1% concentration.  That's a low enough dose to add to the whole tank for an extended time (depending on salt-sensitive inhabitants of course).
 
You can google for Youtube videos of fish getting concentrated salt baths e.g.

.   This one is for a 3% salt dip (114g per US gallon is 30g per litre) and you can see the fish starting to roll over and lose consciousness.
 
This is also interesting http/edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM00700.pdf

 

[Mamashack]

Well spotted, daize! 3gr per L is indeed 0.3%. Even at that level tho it's still 300 times more concentrated than the 10mg per L for each ppm NO2 recommended for NO2 neutralisation.
Thanks for the links - the Uni @ Florida at least agrees with Dr Tim that sea-water is around 3% salt. They do however prefer the 6 times treatment level rather than the 10 times that TTA has opted for tho I understand that he acknowledges the range to be 6-10 times.
Have just reread that and it's a bit blah blah - I've just got in from work, I'm tired and it's a bit late for me to be doing serious maths conversions! lol

 

[Mamashack]

Well the nitrite problem seems to have resolved - all negative results since the 75% water change. Still not sure what happened there!
I am at the end of my tether food-wise for the cherries tho - they ignore eveything I put in there and I'm having to remove mushy food after 6-8 hrs - shrimp pellets (ground or whole) and pre-soaked, algae wafers, fish flakes, have even tried Liquifry that I'd bought for 2 little platies that didn't make to the micro tank. They've even stopped going on the moss square which is now growing nicely as a result tho I'd gladly sacrifice it to know they are eating!
I'm at a loss what to try next. Have looked at the pads fm mentioned and to me they look just like the algae wafers tho a different shape.
Have only seen a couple at a time and they are still alive so they are getting something from somewhere. It's not a mature tank, but I did use mature gravel to kick-start the cycle. Could they be living on what's in the gravel?

 

[Zikofski]

wow lovely to here this come along and very good information being posted here with regsrds to food do you have algae in the tank maybe they are eating that and maybe they are eating algae that you cant see yet? hope they are eating for your sake

 

[fm1978]

Most likely they're getting by on the biofilm from your mature gravel. As long as you can see their little 'claws' scraping surfaces and going to and from their mouths, they'll be just fine.

 

[daizeUK]

What brand algae wafers are you using?  My amano's go nuts for Hikari algae wafers.

 

[Mamashack]

hi Zik - they are eating on the Fissidens moss mat agin this evening - seen 3 of them on there at some point tonight, tho not together.

Yes, their little claws were moving to and from their mouths, fm, but I had to get the magnifying glass to see it! lol

It's the Hikari brand of algae wafers I tried, daize, perhaps they'll find them more appetising as they get older.

I received some Spirulina Super Forte Granulat pellets since my last post. Wasn't expecting them til the middle of next week.! They are around 36% spirulina as opposed to 5-6% in other pellets. They are about 2mm across and very dark green so I'm going to use the aquarium-dedicated turkey baster to scoop out the flake (which I'd placed in the little plant pot so I could see it) as it's started to dissolve and I'll try the new pellets tomorrow.

As a free sample I also received a tiny packet of Tropical Mini Wafers with spirulina and astaxanthin. Most are a lighter green and 6 are red so I'm guessing they are the ones with more astaxanthin in. On the label at the back it says Astaxanthin 60mg/kg but since I don't know how much they put in other products I don't know if that's higher or not. These pellets are about 0.75cm which is half the size of the Hikari ones which in turn are about 1.5cm across so considerably bigger than the super-forte ones. Just read the label again and the green ones have spirulina, algae and fibre whereas the red ones have an immune stimulator called BETA-1.3/1.6-GLUCAN (that's as written!) and astaxanthin. So it looks like I might be trying Astaxanthin after all!

 

[Mamashack]

What's happened to the edit box? I have no edit tools and it won't let me post direct. I have to do it thro More Reply Options! Also it's merging all the paragraphs into one long one so apologies if my last post isn't easy to follow!

 

[Zikofski]

merging posts into one is normal if you post quickly after posting again i think its an anti spam thing to stop prople spamming posts quickly,

question tho about the shrimp feeding i get a lot of people ask why is my PLECO not feeding and people seem to not knownthey are nocturnal so are shrimp or some shrimp specieis nocturnal? just a question as i have no idea but by sounds of it they are eating and probably eating algae that is so small we cant see it yet but it maybe more juicy and plenty of it in the tank as this tank is new still even tho the filter is developed its still a new tank and susceptible to algae

its nice reading all these posts and u tease me to much with the shrimp so i went out and bought a new tank a lil biger than yours an ADA one so hopefuly i can make a nice scape to but you given me great ideas and help so far keep up the good work