Uk Election

[onebto]

Always an interesting subject politics .... I apolagies for the epic but I thought I would share my thoughts on this subject at such a time.

These are my views alone and in no way is this post commenting on any other post on this subject.

The inherent problem with it all IN MY HUMBLE OPINION AND LIMITED UNDERSTANDING is.

In the early days politicians are genuinley interested in making change for the good for there local constituency's and the nation . However over time it appears to me that things change and politicians priority's change they work to build there status, position and personal portfolios.

Instead of trying to achieve the genuine good for there local authority or the nation, they get there own ideas of what is write and wrong (not always the correct direction to go in) and they try and sell there policies to the public. Mainly by pointing out the problems with the other party's instead of concentrating on there own flaw's.

A person can be an expert in economics, law, the health service etc but how can they have the audacity to say they are an expert on every field of running a government? So yes they build a team around them a party but what makes me laugh and sometimes cry is all these cabinet reshuffles sometimes a minister is only in a position for a year before they drag someone else in to take over and learn the position. Sure this is were the civil service comes in (they are there or should be to put into practice policy's set by the current elected government) but that is riddled with incompatant's and departments all looking after there own budgets, jobs, positions, personal power and portfolios.

NOW! this does not mean they are all on the take I hate tarring people with the same brush, there are some genuinely good hard working people trying to make a change out there.

The problem is they are very few and far between and rarely are there enough in the right place at the right time to make a significant change.

Unfortunately power is a very seductive lure (as is greed) history has taught us this, that in my hummble opinion is why this country is in the state it is in at the moment as well as the world, an ocean and language does not change human nature!

So what's the answer? Unfortunately I do not have it I wish I had, if I did I would be tempted to do something myself.

Unfortunately we search for leaders to run our local authority's and government and instead we get Politicians as I mentioned before there not all the same some are genuinely good people but the same problem stands.

I will be voting and voting Conservative by no means are they perfect I just think they will be giving the best chance for the future I like Cameron I think he is genuine and wants to make changes for the good.

I would not vote labour in a month of Sundays as I think the unelected one Gordon Brown is a terrible Prime minister although I do rate him as a good economists (its just not enough).

I like Nick Cleg I think he is a genuine chap but a lot of his party's policy's I just do not agree with especially immigration which is a very big policy in my eye's.

Some what's to say that if I had my way this election would be a pick and mix a range of policy's from 4 or 5 different party's and persons to carry them out.

I do hope one day this country and the world will start choosing LEADERS instead of politicians to run things for the people and one day the modern day politician is a thing of the past (this could be considered an odd statement on my part considering my posted views and my choice of vote but the world is not perfect I will be voting for the party I think will give us the best chance for the future).

Regards onebto.

 

[kaivalagi]

Nice post Onebto,

I think more referendums would go somewhere to get around the dodgy politics, let the people decide more....there is an independent standing somewhere in the country with that as his sole manifesto point...


With today's technical advancements and the internet in general it would be easy to have a government portal where individuals could vote or throw out on any topic given to the public to decide on, that would for me go some way towards creating a fairer true democracy...

But you have to wonder if a project like this was to get started how much money would the government in power waste on it, I'm thinking along the lines of the NHS IT projects that have failed in the past.

 

[WILDER]

Not voting.

 

[minxfishy]

I have never voted before (I'm 38) but for the first time, I shall and I will be voting Labour, I dont like Camerons view on us sponging single mothers and how dreadful we are as families and the only family that counts is the one with a mummy and daddy and the perfect 2.4 children. I remember living under a conservative govt as a single parent and frankly its not fun, whilst we are hardly rolling in it these days, things are better than they were before. Unfortunately I fear the worst Friday morning.

 

[andywg]

What do you really think the conservatives are bringing to the table other than tax breaks for the rich, a VAT rise and the demolition of anything that helps the poorer people of the country.

Just to embark on a little debate here:

VAT cut: none of the three main parties has ruled out a raise in VAT after the election, they have all merely stated they don't want to do it. You have just as much chance of a rise in VAT from the Tories as you do Labour or the Lib Dems. Some would argue there is more of a chance from the Labour party as they have broken their election manifesto pledges regarding tax raises in each of the last elections; twice raising taxes in a way it was claimed they would not within 12 months of the election.

Also, the Labour party has already more than doubled the inheritance tax threshold (and only after seeing what it did for the Tories in the polls). Since it was set at over £300,000, this is hardly a tax cut for the lowest paid.

Demolition of anything that helps the poorer people of the country - so you agree with the recent attempt to double the rate of income tax paid at the lowest end and the widening of the gap between rich and poor?

Do you not think the best way to help the poor is to allow them to keep more of their money in the first place (lib dem policy to raise tax threshold to £10k) than to tax it from them and then force them to fill in a complicated form and try and negotiate government bureaucracy which will result in many over and underpayments as well as require a massive wage bill for an unnecessary policy which still pays out to those on £50k per year (Labour's child tax credits)?

As to what the Conservatives bring (other than the facetious argument of the ability to clean up the mess Labour always leaves after any period in government), I see it as a state which has less of a role in one's life, trying to leave far more of the decisions on how to spend your money up to you. This is the ideological side of the debate; that of greater or less intervention by the state. The British public sit in the middle of the red and blue parties, hence the vote tending to swing between them. Some will always prefer the Labour view, others the Conservative view. At the moment many feel that Labour has gone too interventionist (evidenced by ID cards and their horrendous plans to have our pre-charge sentencing laws modelled on those of Burma). Even if there is a Conservative government there will come a time when people will prefer a more social model and the Labour party will get in again, thus restarting the cycle.

With today's technical advancements and the internet in general it would be easy to have a government portal where individuals could vote or throw out on any topic given to the public to decide on, that would for me go some way towards creating a fairer true democracy...

Be careful what you wish for; whilst a person is intelligent, people are dumb. Mob rule (which is what a large increase in referenda will bring) is not likely to be all that pretty. Just look at what happened when the media whipped up a huge frenzy over paedophiles and started naming them: a mob forms and attacks the house of a paediatrician on the basis that because the word sounded similar she too must be a pervert (rather than the doctor helping to mend all their children).

Whilst many will not like it, the average person is a bit too stupid and self centred to take many of the decisions of government, hence why we have a representative democracy.

 

[kaivalagi]

With today's technical advancements and the internet in general it would be easy to have a government portal where individuals could vote or throw out on any topic given to the public to decide on, that would for me go some way towards creating a fairer true democracy...

Be careful what you wish for; whilst a person is intelligent, people are dumb. Mob rule (which is what a large increase in referenda will bring) is not likely to be all that pretty. Just look at what happened when the media whipped up a huge frenzy over paedophiles and started naming them: a mob forms and attacks the house of a paediatrician on the basis that because the word sounded similar she too must be a pervert (rather than the doctor helping to mend all their children).

Whilst many will not like it, the average person is a bit too stupid and self centred to take many of the decisions of government, hence why we have a representative democracy.

Fair point, if only the majority had a decent enough education and didn't sway with media hype and saw things as they are...I guess if something was setup for only the well educated people with degrees to get involved there would be an uproar from the less educated but smart people as well as the dumb...

One day this may be possible for all.....I can live in hope anyway

 

[chrisbassist]

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

lyrics from the idiots are taking over by nofx

 

[kaivalagi]

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

lyrics from the idiots are taking over by nofx

very apt

 

[raptorrex]

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

lyrics from the idiots are taking over by nofx

the

Arkansas inbred

has just the same rights as you. even if, in your view, they have lesser intelligence. only the ignorant/arrogant, would suggest, curtailing, their rights. same goes for those who think MONEY gives then some, higher rights.
to some, just having water and waste disposal (for instance) is all they want, from government (local or national). to, others, the national and international and or business stance is most important. what right anyone to say which is right or wrong?

 

[andywg]

Fair point, if only the majority had a decent enough education and didn't sway with media hype and saw things as they are...I guess if something was setup for only the well educated people with degrees to get involved there would be an uproar from the less educated but smart people as well as the dumb...

A degree is not necessarily the best judge of intelligence or application. Whilst having a lawyer or two in the House of Commons should (in theory) help with the drafting of new laws (though see the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 for the sort of nonsense that can come about when they listen to the media too much) having someone with a music degree may potentially fail to bring the desired qualities (but on the other hand, they may - just to make it clear I am not picking on anyone students of music). Added to that is that no matter how well educated people are, a grouping has the ability to bring out a mob mentality.

The way ours system is designed is that each area can vote on who they want to represent them based on what they feel is important and how they want to be represented. This is one of the drawbacks to any moves closer to PR as the Lib Dems would like; the severance of any direct and geographical link from the public to the politicians. Whilst being able to name your MP is a fairly rare occurrence these days, I am yet to meet anyone who can name their MEPs due to it being list based. Also, a list based PR system provides for safe seats. As many may have noticed, Ed Balls is facing the risk of being this election's Portillo moment as many of the people he represents do not want him to do so any longer. With PR he would be high enough on the list that there would be no chance of getting rid of him.

FPTP is far from perfect, but I am yet to see any massive plus points for the other systems to cause me to desire anything else (but true to my quote earlier, at school I was enamoured with PR).

But I have now successfully digressed a huge amount, so I shall once more retire (lest I move onto the House of Lords and my argument for why elected representatives to the red benches could be a disaster for us). Before I do, one thing is for certain, this will be a rollercoaster of a ride tomorrow night. For those of you voting for the first time and able to stay up late, you may find the election coverage tomorrow good to watch, I doubt we will have another one like this for some time.

One day this may be possible for all.....I can live in hope anyway

Utopia beckons, but I find it is always the day after tomorrow...

 

[steelhealr]

Can you watch it on OUR TV? SH

 

[kaivalagi]

Utopia beckons, but I find it is always the day after tomorrow...

Too true...

The polls suggest a hung parliament with the tories about 40 votes short of a majority...we shall see I guess

 

[Truck]

40 votes short in a poll is nothing, you can't guarantee that the polls are reliable, the sampling maybe biased.

 

[kaivalagi]

40 votes short in a poll is nothing, you can't guarantee that the polls are reliable, the sampling maybe biased.

True, but it's the best guess we have to go on...tomorrow will be very interesting..I get the feeling that a lot of people will be changing thier minds tomorrow...I may well hold off voting until later in the day so I know what's best for me

 

[andywg]

Can you watch it on OUR TV? SH

I would guess that there would be some coverage on your news channels, not too sure on anything else.

I guess the BBC will be simulcasting it on the web, if you go through a router that makes it look like you are in the UK you should be able to watch it there. I understand Sky News may be putting some stuff on the internet as well. BBC America will have some coverage but it will not be the UK stuff and starts late (2 hours after our coverage starts). There is a chance C-Span will be showing it on one of their three channels as well.

40 votes short in a poll is nothing, you can't guarantee that the polls are reliable, the sampling maybe biased.

The polls have been proven wrong before. There is an amusing video of Gordon Brown talking about how the polls were showing a good win for Labour in 1992 shortly before John Major won a majority of about 50 seats. Also, in theory, the better Sinn Fein do, the lower the winning margin as Sinn Fein never take their seats due to them refusing to pledge allegiance to the Queen. We simply do not know at the moment, though the betting websites have around 70-80% likelihood last time I looked of a Conservative majority or conservatives winning the most seats. We just won't know for sure until the small hours of Friday morning.

To quote Samuel L Jackson in Jurassic Park: Hold on to your butts!