New Tank Cycling

[sigma]

I've had my 40 gallon running for a little over three weeks, with live sand, live rock and 2 damsels, and still have yet to see ammonia go above 0.025. I have been testing the water everyday. Is this cycling ever going to happen?

Also, I just started getting a diatom outbreak a few days ago and now the bottom of the tank is all brown.

 

[Navarre]

I dont think you will get a spike.

I really think your tank has already cycled.

Read below.

Fully cured live rock should not cycle on introduction to a new salt water aquarium.

What Steve has said above is right - it really all comes down to the rock being fully cured on introduction. If it is, when it enters your tank, then there should be no problem.

I've noticed a lot of replies lately about fully cured live rock going through the 'recognized' cycling process. I really don't think that this is true. The reason I don't say that "it categorically isn't true" is because I'm waiting for an answer to a question from some microbiologists - hopefully within the next week (all established tanks cycle continuously but this is beyond test kit detection )

Fully cured live rock has nothing on it that will die back. With no die back, there can be no cycling of the rock - end of story.... - ish . There is the issue of 'osmotic shock' to address though. From what I believe, the Nitrosomanas sp. of bacteria found on/in live rock don't have a cell wall that allow the rapid transfer of water into/out of the cell (this is what I'm trying to establish). So, osmotic shock should not be a major factor.

That said, if anybody doesn't agree with me, then why do Steve, STM, Fantasea etc (all purveyors of quality fully cured live rock) say that their rock is ready to go? Provided that the rock arrives with you within 12-24 hrs then it should be fine. The only way this rock will 'cycle' is if some of it has died during shipping (unlikely, given the experience in packaging of the sellers) or if you kill some of it on receipt.

Provided that your salt water is set-up in accordance with your salt manufacturers’ recommendations, then there really shouldn't be a problem.

I've only set-up 6 reef tanks thus far (nothing, compared to others), all using fully cured live rock as the main filtration, and I've stocked each tank within 2 days of the rock going in . So far, I have suffered no fatalities as a result of this start up procedure (fatalities down the line are a different issue ). Now, I'm either the luckiest Taff reef keeper around or the suppliers of fully cured live rock are right .

Once I've received the answers to the questions I've asked, I'll write a diatribe on this subject . If I'm wrong, then I'll go gracefully

 

[Raki]

I started my tank with fully cured LR 10 lbs of live sand and an additive that encoraged bactera growth I had no cycleto speak of either I had fish in my tank two days after I set it up and those samefish are still swimming and happy today almost nine months later. So I would suspect that your tank didn't need to cycle either if you used fully cured rock

 

[Sguard21]

Yea i had the same issue with my tank. i swear the live rock eats up the amonia or something so it seemed like the tank never began a cycle its just stable. Another friend experienced the same thing.

maybe its time for a water change that might help the brown algae

 

[Max]

i swear the live rock eats up the amonia or something

well actully its the bacteria on the lr... so yeah it does eat the ammonia....

 

[sigma]

its only 5 lbs of live rock in my 40gallon tank, along with 40 lbs of live sand. If this is the case, thats pretty sweet, so now I can add my cleanup crew and take care of some algae

Just did a 20% water change 3 days ago

 

[Stryker]

A cycle is only what happens when the food source (ammonia) out weights the feeder (good bacteria). If that live rock was fully cured and the bacteria on that rock was well fed during the proccess (so its already geared up to handle a certain bio load) then I dont see how there could be a recognisable cycle.

Over the next months things will balance out tho. Some beneficial bacteria will also grow on the other surfaces in your tank so a little will die off in the rock and generally a balance will be struck between the bio load (the fish) and the bacteria.

 

[Navarre]

Just to add caution here. 5lb is not alot of live rock so be careful.

This equates to roughly 2kg of live rock. You need at least 1kg of live rock for every 2 gallons of tank (UK gallons). This means that in a 40 gallon tank (uk gallons) you will need a minimum of 20kg (44lbs) of live rock.

I suggest you get more live rock in as soon as possible. Add nothing else in regads tolivestock (cleanup crew dont count towards biloads so can be added).

You will probably find that your live rock is coping but the balance is going ot be very fine, if you overfeed (which many do without realising) then you will probably tip the balance infavour of a spike.

Whilst bacteria will populate other parts of the tank, bacteria in the water columb or glass sides will be absolutly minimal.

Your live sand will be helping of course but live sand alone wont be enough to keep the tank balanced.

I would start to increase your live rock to improve your bacteria surface area.

 

[Stryker]

Do you refer to the anaerobic bacteria? I know that is just going to be in the live rock.

Sorry to butt in but I always wondered. Is it the scurrying little critters that keep the nitrogen gas released at a steady rate as opposed to one big catastrophic burp?

 

[Navarre]

Yes the anaerobic bacteria that breaks down the nitrate to Nitrogen etc.

Aerobic bacteria
will cover the live rock and insid to a certain degree the sand will be infested with this type of bacteria also as this type of bacteria live in an oxygen rich environment.

Anaerobic lives in an oxygen poor environment and this is harder to supply.
Live rock is almost unique in that it allows water to pass through it very slowly, this allows the Aerobic Bacteria to use the oxygen in the water to turn Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite to Nitrate. As the water pases deep its stripped of oxygen and this is where the Anaerobic Bactria thrive. They convert the Nitrate to harmelss Nitrogen gas.

Critters that crawl on live rock and within the sand will keep the live rock porous and stop it fro blocking up as they feed upon the larger items. In the sand they will keep the sand moving and provide an oxygen base for the bacteria to live in. This is why Deep sand beds have to be so.. well.. Deep.. to provide enough depth so that the critters canot bring oxygen down this far and thus provide an oxygen poor environment for the bacteria to release nitrogen gas.

The critters themselves dont release nitrogen but their work will help disperse it into the atmosphere.

 

[Stryker]

I didnt suggest the critters release nitrogen did I? but then again if they have guts like me they probably release all sorts of nasty gases.

Anyways, so I guess its a certainty that live rock with no critters on it will fail eventually owing to getting clogged. hhhmmm so they are important

 

[Navarre]

Sorry if i misread your question
You will never have live rock without critters on it, perhaps in a system that uses copper.. but even then, live rock will work, proably at a reduced effectveness but it will stillwork. Critters are justanother useful part of the process. Most of these critters wont ever be seen as they live deep within the rock anyway. IMOP Live rock reduces it filtration capacity over a period of time anyway. Coraline algea that covers the live rock slowly forms a barrier that stops (or at least slows) water from passing through and thus reduce its effectiveness.

I use an urchin on my liverocks. It loves coraline algea and mine is kept 90% clear of it. Alot of peopl elove coraline algea, it does look nice but when it forms a barrier that reduces the main filtration efficiency in the tank then i try to keep it at a minimum. (sory if this got of topic)