Cycled tank but fish dying

[JoeFinn1997]

A quick search on eBay and Amazon for "rift lake salts" and "cichlid lake salts" produces several products - Seachem Cichlid Lake Salt and Fritz Rift Lake Probiotic. The Seachem product just adds GH so you also need a separate buffer to increase KH. Though I don't know whether you would need their Tanganyika buffer or their Victoria/Malawi buffer - someone else should be able to help there. (Seachem also make an American Cichlid Salt, which is not the right one).

To use these, you would need to dissolve them in the new tank water at a water change before adding it to the tank. You would also need GH and KH testers so you know how much to add to get the level you need for the fish. You wouldn't need to test every time as once you know how much to add to each bucket of water just measure that same amount in future.



The other alternative would be to rehome the remaining fish and have soft water fish in the tank. A shop might be willing to part exchange your fish for soft water fish.

Thank you for the information. In your opinion do you think it would be more prudent to re-home the current fish and then purchase soft water fish for the tank instead?

 

[Essjay]

It would be easier and cheaper in the long term to keep soft water fish, though more money at the outset as even if the shop would take your current fish they won't give you much in part-ex. Going forward, with hard water fish it means having the salts available all the time and using them at every water change.

It is your preference, whether you prefer the hard water fish and don't mind preparing the water at every water change; or whether you also like soft water fish and would be happy changing.

 

[JoeFinn1997]

It would be easier and cheaper in the long term to keep soft water fish, though more money at the outset as even if the shop would take your current fish they won't give you much in part-ex. Going forward, with hard water fish it means having the salts available all the time and using them at every water change.

It is your preference, whether you prefer the hard water fish and don't mind preparing the water at every water change; or whether you also like soft water fish and would be happy changing.

The part exchange isn’t a concern for me. I’d rather the fish be healthy and happy.

I think I’ll go with the advice and swap for soft water fish.

Thanks for your responses, they’ve been super helpful.

 

[Seisage]

What signs did the fish exhibit before they passed? And is there anything odd you notice about your fish currently, other than shyness? Since you mentioned two of your fish rapidly declined in health before dying, I think it would be best to investigate potential illnesses too. It's possible that the stress caused by soft water made them more susceptible to illness, but there also could've been underlying issues caused by other factors (temperature, pH, tankmates, etc.) For example, it's possible your fish were already sick even before you bought them, or that it was the stress of the fish-in cycle rather than water hardness.

I agree with your decision to swap them out for soft-water fish—it's always easier to keep fish that match up with your native water parameters—but when you go to the store, spend a good long while looking at the fish before you buy them. Don't be embarrassed to stand in front of the tank for 5-10 minutes. And don't be embarrassed to ask for a specific individual fish (as long as there aren't many individuals in the tank). Once the worker nets out some fish into a bag, you can inspect them closer and potentially ask them to swap out a fish or two.

Things to look out for include:
-Unusual behavior (swimming erratically, gasping, sitting at the surface, etc.)
-Flashing (when a fish quickly darts through the water and/or flicks itself against the glass or decor to scratch itself)
-Pale coloration
-Body condition (is the fish very thin?)
-Deformities (curved spines, mainly)
-Signs of external illness (cloudy and/or protruding eyes, white patches, fluffy patches, small white spots, red lesions, ragged fins, etc)
-Dead fish in the tank

If I see any unusual behavior, signs of illness in any fish in a store tank, or any dead fish, I do not buy fish from that tank even if the other fish appear healthy. Ask the store whether their tanks are connected via their water system. If the tanks all share a water system, then illness in one tank means illness in the other tanks and I won't buy any livestock in the store. A good LFS will have a quarantine period of at least a few days, ideally a week or more, and will conduct said quarantine in tanks behind the scenes (or will at least mark display tanks that are under quarantine), treating the fish if necessary before putting them up for sale.

 

[JoeFinn1997]

What signs did the fish exhibit before they passed? And is there anything odd you notice about your fish currently, other than shyness? Since you mentioned two of your fish rapidly declined in health before dying, I think it would be best to investigate potential illnesses too. It's possible that the stress caused by soft water made them more susceptible to illness, but there also could've been underlying issues caused by other factors (temperature, pH, tankmates, etc.) For example, it's possible your fish were already sick even before you bought them, or that it was the stress of the fish-in cycle rather than water hardness.

I agree with your decision to swap them out for soft-water fish—it's always easier to keep fish that match up with your native water parameters—but when you go to the store, spend a good long while looking at the fish before you buy them. Don't be embarrassed to stand in front of the tank for 5-10 minutes. And don't be embarrassed to ask for a specific individual fish (as long as there aren't many individuals in the tank). Once the worker nets out some fish into a bag, you can inspect them closer and potentially ask them to swap out a fish or two.

Things to look out for include:
-Unusual behavior (swimming erratically, gasping, sitting at the surface, etc.)
-Flashing (when a fish quickly darts through the water and/or flicks itself against the glass or decor to scratch itself)
-Pale coloration
-Body condition (is the fish very thin?)
-Deformities (curved spines, mainly)
-Signs of external illness (cloudy and/or protruding eyes, white patches, fluffy patches, small white spots, red lesions, ragged fins, etc)
-Dead fish in the tank

If I see any unusual behavior, signs of illness in any fish in a store tank, or any dead fish, I do not buy fish from that tank even if the other fish appear healthy. Ask the store whether their tanks are connected via their water system. If the tanks all share a water system, then illness in one tank means illness in the other tanks and I won't buy any livestock in the store. A good LFS will have a quarantine period of at least a few days, ideally a week or more, and will conduct said quarantine in tanks behind the scenes (or will at least mark display tanks that are under quarantine), treating the fish if necessary before putting them up for sale.

The fish that declined were also hovering around the bottom of the tank. I think the soft water and/or stress from the fish in cycle has most likely made them more susceptible to illness. Temperature is fine, always around 25 degrees celcius. Tankmates have always been ok with eachother. PH has always been on the lower side, around 6.4 - 6.8, I think this may be linked to the soft water though as the PH is naturally lower for softer water?

The fish remaining all seem ok, but I do think I will swap them for soft water fish just to be sure they won’t decline in health also.

Noted re the points you made about reviewing fish before purchasing, much appreciated.

 

[Ceez]

You can also use a bag of crushed coral in your filter to increase hardness.

 

[Guest5431]

The most beautiful platies I ever raised were in a front pond in the store with live plants, no heat and water that started at about neutral PH with little hardness. I don't chase book numbers for what fish were found in in the wild. They adapt and are frequently already raised in conditions you may already have without stressing them out further always trying to fiddle with stuff to chase some perceived ideal which isn't required. I've got red wag, neon sunburst and blue wag platies right now in the store tanks having babies with the same water. Around neutral ph and almost no hardness. I have to be really careful gravel vacing since it's easy to suck up baby platies. It's one of the reasons I went with sponge filters for the livebearer tanks. Nowhere for babies to get sucked into and ground up by impellers. I just set up 3 tubs with the same water and plants to start raising more including guppies which I have several females already dropping their first litters in the same water.

Happiness comes when you relax and just let things be. Find a female that's already pregnant and have a few. It only takes one to set you up with a colony that'll keep you stocked for years whatever your water may be. That pond would get rather cold in the winter and I suspect that led to a slower growth rate and some of the largest red wags I've ever seen with gorgeous color from the natural sunlight and diet.

 

[gwand]

The most beautiful platies I ever raised were in a front pond in the store with live plants, no heat and water that started at about neutral PH with little hardness. I don't chase book numbers for what fish were found in in the wild. They adapt and are frequently already raised in conditions you may already have without stressing them out further always trying to fiddle with stuff to chase some perceived ideal which isn't required. I've got red wag, neon sunburst and blue wag platies right now in the store tanks having babies with the same water. Around neutral ph and almost no hardness. I have to be really careful gravel vacing since it's easy to suck up baby platies. It's one of the reasons I went with sponge filters for the livebearer tanks. Nowhere for babies to get sucked into and ground up by impellers. I just set up 3 tubs with the same water and plants to start raising more including guppies which I have several females already dropping their first litters in the same water.

Happiness comes when you relax and just let things be. Find a female that's already pregnant and have a few. It only takes one to set you up with a colony that'll keep you stocked for years whatever your water may be. That pond would get rather cold in the winter and I suspect that led to a slower growth rate and some of the largest red wags I've ever seen with gorgeous color from the natural sunlight and diet.

Since you have multiple generations of platys in your tank, how do you know your soft water is not shortening the lifespan of your fish as many would maintain.

 

[Guest5431]

How do you know all the fiddlin and bouncing around water parameters trying to change what comes out of the tap to your perceived goal isn't doing the exact same thing?

It's not rocket science. Fish adapt to survive. Each generation born is more used to what they're in than anything their great, great, great grandparents may have been. You're more likely to make a mistake and shock them trying to consistently adjust and alter things than to provide a consistent anything with good clean water and great diet.

1 livebearer can have as many as 6 batches of babies from a single impregnation. 1 can turn into hundreds, hundreds into thousands rapidly. It's what the business is based on. I started out before I had a store breeding livebearers in the same town water I used in the store. I ended up with over 100 aquariums in the house before opening the store. We got 12 into a closet.

Keep things simple, quarantine your fish, the longer the better. Don't mix until you're sure they've adapted. Noone here or anywhere else is going to give you an absolute certain cause any fish dies without going thru some level of vet autopsy. Some of the viruses and parasites they come in with from the farms and wholesalers may not even show for a month or more. With livebearers it's extremely simple. They reproduce rapidly. Raise one batch and your pretty much stocked for life. Once you have generation 2, you have control over what they've been exposed to. You can even get into selective breeding to strengthen the lines if that's your bag. You could also just relax and keep fish with what comes out the tap. None of these fish unless they are labeled as wild caught are generally even close to what the ancestors were found in in the wild. Life finds a way if you get out of the way. Small frequent water changes are better than larger ones that suddenly shock them for a variety of reasons from changes. My biggest challenge right now is temp. Cold water is coming in out the tap warmer than the tanks. Smaller changes are safer. I almost took down a tank of peppered corys 2 days ago with a 50% water change. Fortunately I caught it in time and was able to quickly pull the warmer water back out and replace like 95% with water I had aged and at room temp for the bettas in a 32 gallon trash can and saved them.

 

[sharkweek178]

Hello,

I’ve completed a fish in cycle (I didn’t realise this was bad due to poor advice from the store). My ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0 and my nitrates are kept below 50 with water changes when necessary.

However, it seems I am having more problems with fish health now the tank is cycled than while I was completing the fish in cycle. My fish are hiding a lot of the time, although still eating, and also I have lost two fish who seemed completely fine during the cycle and then went quickly downhill after the cycle.

I am just wondering what I can do to prevent further losses and is there anything further I need to check on the tank.

For reference, my tank is 100 litres and I originally had 8 Livebearers. 4 platy and 4 mollies. I have lost 1 of each fish so far. I only have artificial decorations and no live plantation.

From my understanding, the fish listed above are supposed to be ‘hardy’ fish. Therefore, if my main water parameters(ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are consistently fine then I have no idea what is causing the issue. I have plenty of surface movement and also an air stone.

Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

When it comes to water changes, think of them in a different way. Instead of doing them "when necessary", do them on a regular schedule. If you do weekly water changes, that keeps your water stable so that the parameters never get bad in the first place. And the fish like it. Fish love clean, fresh water.

 

[Guest5431]

Back in the old days there was a simple phrase that summed it up, Daily Ten's. Change 10% a day. Obviously people nowadays are not as willing to put in the time to do smaller safer changes but the longer you wait and the larger the percentage, the more drastic it becomes increasing the potential to shock your fish one way or another. Take bacteria for instance, I've always felt that if you don't vacuum, then a portion grows on the outter extremes of the waste where they have the most exposure to oxygen and water nutrients. You wait a long time and finally do a big change, you pull out a lot of them at the same time so I feel like the more often you vacuum, you encourage more to develop in places that are more permanent.

Then you have that person that'll stand there and swear she hasn't changed her bettas water in 7 years and he's doing just fine.

How long should a fish live? That's a choice you make but it's really as simple as this, they're only here because someone bred them to be here so if they live 2 months or 20 years, it's more than they would have if they hadn't been bred at all or were out in the wild and subject to every conceivable danger there. That feeder fish you fed your oscar may have had a 25 year life span under some idealized perfect conditions but in reality, most likely would have never been born in the first place if it wasn't for the feeder market. The is it better to have lived a few months than to have never lived at all debate. Then you get those one's you're trying to talk into caring and they're quoting scriptures of God sprinkling fish about the desert. You just can't have it perfect in every way for every single fish.

Use live bait fishing? Imagine being in a bucket of cold water, just to be yanked out into the air, have a hook thrust thru your body, to then get tossed thru the air, slamming onto the water to slowly die while someone's praying you fidget enough to attract the attention of another fish to come eat you getting a hook thrust thru their mouth and yanked from the water, probably to their death?

You do the best you can with what you have in a way you can live with. If you can do daily tens then go ahead. If you want to break the bank buying every gadget, gizmo and chemical a com[any can produce chasing some ideal, then great. Mother nature has a way of leveling things back out again though like taking away the electricity regularly from storms to disasters. As long as you're doing your level of best, that's all that really matters. Don't be upset if some fish that would have never been born without your care lives 2 years instead of 2 years 2 months. Just be glad you had it in the first place. Would you rather be that goldfish in a bowl for 2 years or that one the oscar snacked on?