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I don't understand why everyone is quoting my opinion. It's one thing if I hated gays, but I don't. I treat them like normal people (because they are). So, does it matter how I believe that they became gay? No, it's not relevant. It's the fact that I accept them. I don't support them, but I am not going to discriminate against them. Now, I'm sure the gay marriage thing will be brought up, so let me address it really quick. Marriage is a common thing seen now a days. It's a day filled with love and tradition. But, that's not what marriages used to be. Marriages at one point and time were simply a covenant with God. Asking God's blessing on your relationship. But now, it's been blown into gowns and flowers, and dancing, and things that are not related to it's true meaning. So, with that being said, I think gays should be allowed to marry, just in a different sense. Since it says in the Bible, a marriage is between a man and a women, but why not a "marriage" where it does not involve the original purpose of asking for God's blessing? It's unlikely that a gay couple would be getting married and wanting God's blessing (but not impossible). So, at the moment I am very undecided on the whole gay marriage thing, but right now, that's where I am at as far as what the Bible says on it.
 
well lots of old traditions seem to be blown out of proportion these days so i guess i aggree with krib on that train of thought, i think that they should be able to marry as well, just on the fact they are people no matter what, though i find rather unappealing (theres a lesbian couple that sits on the table behing me and y friends and they are usually doing what normal couples do, it just freaks the heck out oof everyone else though,, im smart i have my back to them mos of the time so i only laugh at my friends expressions, the sort you dont lke it dont look at it deal.
 
That's kinda immature. If they were trying to get you to kiss your mates or something, fine that'd be uncomfortable. When I was a little younger, and liked to go out and drink, some of my gave places to go were gay bars. What other people are doing doesn't bother me. And they were places that my female friend felt comfy, because they didn't have all the male idiots hitting on them, and the lesbians were never as rude as a straight drunk bloke.

Sure a couple of times I got approached by guys, I told them I was straight, and with a slurred comment they would walk away (something like what a shame, or what a waste) and leave me to it. Other times they would just say fair enough.

Krib, people are quoting your opinion, because your opinion is something which again, science has been able to disprove. And if it's something which can be proven or disproven, it renders opinion obsolete. My opinion may be that religion is useless, but the simple fact is it's not useless. Quite the opposite. It saves peoples lives.
People are disagreeing with you because they have seen/heard or have first hand experience, showing them the opposite to your belief.

Anyway. There must be more relevant topics in religion...

Krib, you haven't responded to my question about other religions.

Do you use oil and gas? Either as they are or used to make electricity? If you want to be picky, wouldn't that be a sin? Think of where it comes from... Dead animals. By using it are you saying that they died for you to use.

Think about the thousands of modern inventions which weren't around when the bible was written. We have no idea which ones god would approve of. If the bible was a modern book, and it said you must not use a washing machine, but clean your clothes in a river. Would you? What about if it said computers were tools of they devil, would you still be online? How about commandment 11, no fish shall be kept outside it's home. Would you still have your fish?

The point is, the stories are thousands of years old. They are out of date. Not only have a lot of things changed, but isn't it also possible that gods opinion has too?
 
That's kinda immature. If they were trying to get you to kiss your mates or something, fine that'd be uncomfortable. When I was a little younger, and liked to go out and drink, some of my gave places to go were gay bars. What other people are doing doesn't bother me. And they were places that my female friend felt comfy, because they didn't have all the male idiots hitting on them, and the lesbians were never as rude as a straight drunk bloke.

Sure a couple of times I got approached by guys, I told them I was straight, and with a slurred comment they would walk away (something like what a shame, or what a waste) and leave me to it. Other times they would just say fair enough.

Krib, people are quoting your opinion, because your opinion is something which again, science has been able to disprove. And if it's something which can be proven or disproven, it renders opinion obsolete. My opinion may be that religion is useless, but the simple fact is it's not useless. Quite the opposite. It saves peoples lives.
People are disagreeing with you because they have seen/heard or have first hand experience, showing them the opposite to your belief.

Anyway. There must be more relevant topics in religion...

Krib, you haven't responded to my question about other religions.

Do you use oil and gas? Either as they are or used to make electricity? If you want to be picky, wouldn't that be a sin? Think of where it comes from... Dead animals. By using it are you saying that they died for you to use.

Think about the thousands of modern inventions which weren't around when the bible was written. We have no idea which ones god would approve of. If the bible was a modern book, and it said you must not use a washing machine, but clean your clothes in a river. Would you? What about if it said computers were tools of they devil, would you still be online? How about commandment 11, no fish shall be kept outside it's home. Would you still have your fish?

The point is, the stories are thousands of years old. They are out of date. Not only have a lot of things changed, but isn't it also possible that gods opinion has too?

Would you enlighten me how oil and gas are a sin? Sure your using dead animals to fuel your car. But, they died a long time ago, and it's not like I killed them. Even then, God created the world for man. In the Bible is says something a long the lines of "You are masters of the earth" (I know thats not word for word, I just can't remember the verse). So, wether or not we make good choices (again, freedom of choice is given to us by God),we are still masters and caretakers of the earth. We can use all of it's resources and not feel guilty about it (except for the environmental tolls). So, I se using gas and oil irrelevant. If that's what the Bible said, then yes. But, you have to remember, the Bible is a timeless Book. No matter what day and age, people will still have sex before marriage, or with another man/woman after marriage. People will still steal, worship false idols , covet, ect. Will we have computers in 30 years? Probably not. Will we most likely advance into something better. Will we still having lying in 1000 years? Yep. I believe in the Bible there is a verse stating that God never changes.

How do I know that my God is the true God? There is solid evidence that everything in the Bible is true. O It is 100 percent historically accurate. So, if the Book was historically accurate down to the year and the ruers, why would everything else they say be false? Many other religions "bibles" are historically inaccurate. Many claim to happen in cities that never existed, or that didn't exist in that time frame. That people ruled who actually didn't rule. If the basic information as in time and date don't match up, how the spiritual section be 100 percent accurate? That's how historians now a days rate old books and such. They check out every single detail possible and then check out any other works the author has published to see if they are historically accurate. If they are not, then the work is considered very unreliable.
 
How do I know that my God is the true God? There is solid evidence that everything in the Bible is true. O It is 100 percent historically accurate. So, if the Book was historically accurate down to the year and the ruers, why would everything else they say be false? Many other religions "bibles" are historically inaccurate. Many claim to happen in cities that never existed, or that didn't exist in that time frame. That people ruled who actually didn't rule. If the basic information as in time and date don't match up, how the spiritual section be 100 percent accurate? That's how historians now a days rate old books and such. They check out every single detail possible and then check out any other works the author has published to see if they are historically accurate. If they are not, then the work is considered very unreliable.

Uh Oh....would you care to further explain which "other religions" bibles are inaccurate?

To me this does sound like my religion is better than others.....isn't this how wars have broken out?
 
Well said Chris, man's work not god's, it has to be IMHO.

I can't believe that if I was a good person all my life but didn't believe in god, and it turned out there was a god and heaven and hell, that I would be sent to hell.....if that was the case then sorry but I wouldn't want to believe in such a judgemental god like that even if he did exist anyway...

^^ Pretty much just this....
 
Well said Chris, man's work not god's, it has to be IMHO.

I can't believe that if I was a good person all my life but didn't believe in god, and it turned out there was a god and heaven and hell, that I would be sent to hell.....if that was the case then sorry but I wouldn't want to believe in such a judgemental god like that even if he did exist anyway...

^^ Pretty much just this....

Yeah, I'm sure if there was a god he wouldn't be as judgemental as the bible suggests...

For god to teach us all about forgiveness, it strikes me as hypocritical for him to then cast all non believers to hell...

The closest thing I can think of in "this" world would be a parent deciding that because their child didn't listen to them they would not care for them anymore, only the very worst parents out there do that....so is god bad?

Still an agnostic me, I'm waiting for proper proof
 
Maybe much of the bible is accurate, but there is much that can in no way be verified. Considering the church has a long history of inventing miracles to create saints (since every saint must have a miracle) how then, using you're logic of why mistrust other parts of bible considering the historical accuracy, why then trust a church who consistently makes things up?

Can you PROVE that #93### was more than a normal man? Can you historically prove anything he supposedly did? The locations, etc are not important parts of the religion. Yet they are the only bits you could prove.

May I ask why you celebrate Christmas on December 25th? Is it because that's when #93### was born? Nope. Surely there was a set day when #93### died? So why is it just a Sunday around that time?

There is a lot within any religion where you can pick holes, Christianity included. So don't think your religion is the odd one out.
 
How do I know that my God is the true God? There is solid evidence that everything in the Bible is true. O It is 100 percent historically accurate. So, if the Book was historically accurate down to the year and the ruers, why would everything else they say be false? Many other religions "bibles" are historically inaccurate. Many claim to happen in cities that never existed, or that didn't exist in that time frame. That people ruled who actually didn't rule. If the basic information as in time and date don't match up, how the spiritual section be 100 percent accurate? That's how historians now a days rate old books and such. They check out every single detail possible and then check out any other works the author has published to see if they are historically accurate. If they are not, then the work is considered very unreliable.
Uh Oh....would you care to further explain which "other religions" bibles are inaccurate?

To me this does sound like my religion is better than others.....isn't this how wars have broken out?


pretty much
 
No, I am not trying to say that mine is better than someone else's. I just think mine is right. It's my opinion. If a war were to break out because one side thought there religion was better, it would be a pointless war.

Can you PROVE that #93### was more than a normal man? Can you historically prove anything he supposedly did? The locations, etc are not important parts of the religion. Yet they are the only bits you could prove.

The reason why JC doesn't appear all over history as the messiah is because the Jews thought him to be a false prophet, and wanted to shut him up and kill him. His followers were killed and tortured. He does appear in history though. The Bible is becoming widely accepted as an accurate historical document. That the places he went to existed is all anyone can prove. Why? Because you were not personally there to see a first hand account. The New Testament is a collection of first hand accounts. That's all we have. Why do we celebrate the 25th? It should actually be in June, as research shows that is when he was born. The church over the years adopted the winter solstice as JC Birthday (I am unsure why). As for saints, I personally think that is pretty stupid. I don't think saints exist. It doesn't make any sense. A board of Catholics decide if your a saint of not. How can a board of people DECIDE who becomes a saint? They can't. It's not their responsibility, and they have no power over it. That's God's job (even though I doubt he has "saints" so to speak). That's why I have a problem with the Pope (I still think he is a Godly man BTW), I just don't see how you can vote someone in as a "ruler of religion" so on and so forth.

As far as inaccurate bibles, I'll do some digging. I have a book I am reading called "A case for #33###". It's authored by a one time Athiest who wrote for the New York times and had several MAJOR pieces. He went around the U.S. and interviewed top theologians ect. and asked them many questions about religion and how they can be so sure. In a previous book " A case for the Creator", Lee Strobel interviewed many scientist and astronomers who also happen to be devout Christians. He asks them about how science appears to be pointing away from religion. I suggest you guys read those books, even if your not seeking God, just read them to see that Christianity is a very viable faith. Any who, in " A case for #33###" a theologian talks about how some texts include places that don't exist ect. I will look for it this weekend.
 
No, I am not trying to say that mine is better than someone else's. I just think mine is right. It's my opinion. If a war were to break out because one side thought there religion was better, it would be a pointless war.
If you believe this, be very careful with how you say things in future. You attacked another religion without any proof or even a reference for the info, nothing at all to back up your claim. It's the kind of thing people can take serious offence to. Because when it's said like that, it does sound like a my religion is better than yous.

Hopefully you'll sort that out now by providing examples and a source. (as promised)

Christmas day was adopted as 25th Dec, because it was a day already celebrated. It was already someones birthday, who had a very similar story to JC. Mythras. Not sure on the spelling but that should be close enough to find you some info on him.

Since you're promising to shed some light on how inaccurate other religions are, would you like me to shed some light on how inaccurate the bible is? How littered with flaws, how many bits there are which just plain don't make sense, how many bits are completely backwards? From god creating the light before he creates the light producing objects. Creating plants before there is a sun to let them live. Having a wife for Cain, magically appear. Having a man described as "a drunk and naked" build an arc not big enough to carry all the worlds species. But somehow fit them in, to give himself one single ventilation hole about 18" across? Bear in mind it was 7 of every clean beast, not 2 like the unclean ones. That's a lot of animals. Where did the food go? What was done with the tons of excrement? Further into the bible where people mistake #93### for john the baptist, thinking john the baptist has risen from the grave. Wow, what does that say about #93###'s resurrection? If people are that ready to believe that john was resurrected? Even his own diciples questioned who he was. Not just the Jews (of which he was one). Whilst on his deathbed john sent followers to ask #93### if he really was the son of god. So he followed him that whole time, and never truly believed.

Add to all that, the fact that heaven will not be there forever. And that only less than 200,000 celibate men will get in. Chances don't look good for us do they? No matter how much of a follower you are, you ain't getting in now.

When a man needs gods help to father a child at the age of 100, but carries on and has another 6 after that without any help, i'd call that a bit odd.

I know I haven't touched too much on the new testament, but trust me, that's littered with contradictions, repeated accounts of events which argue with the first account. Not to mention the accounts would be questionable to start with since they are written by his followers who would obviously inject a little extra to try and convert more people (with the wow factor, the oh my! How did he do that!). These biased accounts are then compiled by a pagan who arranges things to suit other, already celebrated days. So even less is accurate, and you have the basis of a false religion.

I don't argue with the things #93### said. But I do argue with who he claimedbto be.

You said that the bible didn't have the inconsistencies that others did, hopefully now you'll see you were wring.

Bear in mind that it should not stop you following your religion. So what if there are a few exaggerations. So what if anything. You believe the message the stories tell to be true, and that is what matters at the end of the day.

If you would like some more hole poking doing, more on the new testament just say and I'd be happy to poke some more. Just drop the "my religion is the only one which isn't full of holes" attitude. Either accept the other religions as being someone elses choice. Or accept that yours is full of holes too.
 
im gay and dont believe in god,
everyone is entitled to their own opinion..

and kribensis you said in your first post you dont want people to be arguing with others, seems to me your starting the arguements and threading on peoples toes...

EVERYONE IS RIGHT

:S even if we cant understand it :S
 
and kribensis you said in your first post you dont want people to be arguing with others, seems to me your starting the arguements and threading on peoples toes...

I am not starting arguments. I was stating the facts (or what I believe to be facts). If someone wants to argue about it, then they started the argument, not the other way around.

If you believe this, be very careful with how you say things in future. You attacked another religion without any proof or even a reference for the info, nothing at all to back up your claim. It's the kind of thing people can take serious offence to. Because when it's said like that, it does sound like a my religion is better than yous.

Hopefully you'll sort that out now by providing examples and a source. (as promised)

Christmas day was adopted as 25th Dec, because it was a day already celebrated. It was already someones birthday, who had a very similar story to JC. Mythras. Not sure on the spelling but that should be close enough to find you some info on him.

Since you're promising to shed some light on how inaccurate other religions are, would you like me to shed some light on how inaccurate the bible is? How littered with flaws, how many bits there are which just plain don't make sense, how many bits are completely backwards? From god creating the light before he creates the light producing objects. Creating plants before there is a sun to let them live. Having a wife for Cain, magically appear. Having a man described as "a drunk and naked" build an arc not big enough to carry all the worlds species. But somehow fit them in, to give himself one single ventilation hole about 18" across? Bear in mind it was 7 of every clean beast, not 2 like the unclean ones. That's a lot of animals. Where did the food go? What was done with the tons of excrement? Further into the bible where people mistake #93### for john the baptist, thinking john the baptist has risen from the grave. Wow, what does that say about #93###'s resurrection? If people are that ready to believe that john was resurrected? Even his own diciples questioned who he was. Not just the Jews (of which he was one). Whilst on his deathbed john sent followers to ask #93### if he really was the son of god. So he followed him that whole time, and never truly believed.

Add to all that, the fact that heaven will not be there forever. And that only less than 200,000 celibate men will get in. Chances don't look good for us do they? No matter how much of a follower you are, you ain't getting in now.

When a man needs gods help to father a child at the age of 100, but carries on and has another 6 after that without any help, i'd call that a bit odd.

I know I haven't touched too much on the new testament, but trust me, that's littered with contradictions, repeated accounts of events which argue with the first account. Not to mention the accounts would be questionable to start with since they are written by his followers who would obviously inject a little extra to try and convert more people (with the wow factor, the oh my! How did he do that!). These biased accounts are then compiled by a pagan who arranges things to suit other, already celebrated days. So even less is accurate, and you have the basis of a false religion.

I don't argue with the things #93### said. But I do argue with who he claimedbto be.

You said that the bible didn't have the inconsistencies that others did, hopefully now you'll see you were wring.

Bear in mind that it should not stop you following your religion. So what if there are a few exaggerations. So what if anything. You believe the message the stories tell to be true, and that is what matters at the end of the day.

If you would like some more hole poking doing, more on the new testament just say and I'd be happy to poke some more. Just drop the "my religion is the only one which isn't full of holes" attitude. Either accept the other religions as being someone elses choice. Or accept that yours is full of holes too.

Would you mind actually quoting sources for these?
 
I don't have a bible to hand but if you want I can do it later. There must be a bible online somewhere. And that's the only book I'll need.
 

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