Your Views

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My view on organised religion is that it is a way of controlling people who cannot think for themselves. I do not believe you have to go to church everyday and follow a book that was written hundreds of years ago to pin point detail to be a good human being. The concept of god is quite conceivable in my eyes, but I am mostly into the science side of things, as it has what has advanced and benefited us humans the most over the years. Where as religion has caused nothing but conflict and death for those who chose to believe or was in the wrong religion.

Well that's a brief over view of my views, Sorry if anyone found any of that offensive it really wasn't meant to be.

I think you're probably in the majority group Ace. Science leads the way for most of us these days and everything else needs to fit around that...that's what I think anyway.....maybe that is narrow minded or maybe religion is?

As for any offense, nooooo, it's all good and part of the bigger question, what are "Your Views" :)


I think science leads to practicability, where as Religion is somewhere for people to go who are in need of someone to care for them and be part of something, much like a gang I guess.
 
Yep, I guess there is a certain amount of security to be had from the community/group thing some religions provide...I wonder if Church goers will ever wear Bandanna's on the streets with their churches colours
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But then believing in Science also gives that group security as it is well established across the world and proven in a scientific sense anyway....i.e. you can't go wrong following Sciences theories...I lose it a bit when it comes to string theory and quarks though ;)
 
Yep, I guess there is a certain amount of security to be had from the community/group thing some religions provide...I wonder if Church goers will ever wear Bandanna's on the streets with their churches colours
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But then believing in Science also gives that group security as it is well established across the world and proven in a scientific sense anyway....i.e. you can't go wrong following Sciences theories...I lose it a bit when it comes to string theory and quarks though ;)

But science isn't fact anyway, it's based on the most probable out come backed up by detail research or something :).

And I didn't mean that, obviously gangs and religion are a lot different, but I guess they both provide the same sort of safety.
 
As far as Churches being used as a "comfort" or a need to "belong", I don't really see that evident at my Church. Even myself, I don't feel like I need to belong anywhere. I'm sure many at my church feel the same. So, I don't use Church as blanket to cover my inability to feel normal around others (which is not true, I am a very sociable person). As for a comfort, I can see that. Churches provide a very strong community in and outside of the Church Membership. Our church goes out and about and helps out less fortunate family's that we do not even know. We buy them a heater for winter, or help insulate their house ect. Our pastor is famous for saying " The most important part of our sign out there is the East Peoria part, not the Free Methodist part. If we are part of the community, we should act as part of the community". Some people think that Churches are mere vises for those who have had emotional struggles. Sure, when a family member dies, it makes it easier on you when you know where they have gone, but that isn't why people go to Church. People go because they want to learn about and be closer to God. That's it.

My view on organised religion is that it is a way of controlling people who cannot think for themselves

That quote from Ace is offensive to me, but I forgive you Ace. It's not like you meant it. But as far as I am concerned, that statement is misguided (no offense). I am perfectly capable of controlling myself, and thinking for myself. I have developed my own thoughts on things, and developed my own interests. I can not think of anyone who is actually controlled by organized religion. But I do have a distaste for organized religion. I feel that so many procedures get in the way and the direction of the Church is lost due to it. How is a Church effective if all you do is light candles at an altar, play an organ, and read written out prayers? It's not. Simple as that. I think pre-written prayers are extremely stupid. How can you be sincere when your reading someone else's prayer? How can you have a personal relationship with God when you can't even communicate with him correctly? You can't. That's why I don't like organized religion (as far as Christianity goes). People get so caught up in the things that they think makes Church, Church, that they lose the entire meaning of it.

-end of rant. I could go on and on about this.
 
I am perfectly capable of controlling myself, and thinking for myself.

i sort of tried that and i strayed away from it to an extent, then again im not as commited to it as you are and in comparison my church is nothing like yours at all, one time a homeless lady tried to attend mass and she was escorted out, though theoretically we should have welcomed her in, then again that was us doing it not God.


idk, imho i still think that god is on the top, just not in the normal way thought


either that or :alien: :alien: :alien:
 
Kribensis12:

a family member dying can be why people go. They can start going to hopefully get some comfort that they are still there. I think the way you view your religion is very pure. Which is a good thing. I think you're incredibly lucky to have a church like that. Maybe it's an American thing. Because here in the uk I've never seen a church like that. All the churches over here I've seen you go in, a part of the bible is read out. The vicar/priest tries to explain what the passage means. Then you sing some songs. Then you're asked for money on the way out to help repair the church. I've never seen a church here stray too far from that formula.

A church like yours that actually helps people is something I could get involved with (except the god part, I do good things because it's right, not because I'm told to)


On a final note, the other day I walked past a church, it had a sign up outside saying something like "would it make any difference if the bible was true?"

I'm happy that no, it wouldn't. I'm happy with how I live my life, I try and do good things, the 10 commandments are all safe. I have never cheated on my wife or any of my girlfriends. I try and help people if I can. The only thing I'm missing, is actually worshipping god. And I think if you live a good life full of good deeds, and try and spread happiness. That part would be forgiven anyway.
 
My view on organised religion is that it is a way of controlling people who cannot think for themselves. I do not believe you have to go to church everyday and follow a book that was written hundreds of years ago to pin point detail to be a good human being. The concept of god is quite conceivable in my eyes, but I am mostly into the science side of things, as it has what has advanced and benefited us humans the most over the years. Where as religion has caused nothing but conflict and death for those who chose to believe or was in the wrong religion.

Ace: That's why I do not like "organized" religion. You do need to step into a church to love God. A Bible is all you really need. It tells the history of God and his people, and his son, JC. Quick fact, Churches are part of a "standardized christianity" .

My view on organised religion is that it is a way of controlling people who cannot think for themselves

That quote from Ace is offensive to me, but I forgive you Ace. It's not like you meant it. But as far as I am concerned, that statement is misguided (no offense). I am perfectly capable of controlling myself, and thinking for myself. I have developed my own thoughts on things, and developed my own interests. I can not think of anyone who is actually controlled by organized religion. But I do have a distaste for organized religion. I feel that so many procedures get in the way and the direction of the Church is lost due to it. How is a Church effective if all you do is light candles at an altar, play an organ, and read written out prayers? It's not. Simple as that. I think pre-written prayers are extremely stupid. How can you be sincere when your reading someone else's prayer? How can you have a personal relationship with God when you can't even communicate with him correctly? You can't. That's why I don't like organized religion (as far as Christianity goes). People get so caught up in the things that they think makes Church, Church, that they lose the entire meaning of it.

-end of rant. I could go on and on about this.


Now I'm totally confused dude >.<
 
I think this was mistyped:
"You do need to step into a church to love God."
And should have read:
"You don't need to step into a church to love God."
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My mother is in a slightly strange, agnostic place. My father is a total athiest. I was brought up in a quietly Christian manner, however. I was Christened, I spent my childhood and teenager years attending Easter services, carol services, midnight mass, etc. We had religious Advent Calendars (never with chocolate!) and such. I didn't really realise that neither of my parents were particularly Christian until I was a teenager.

My grandmother, however, is a staunch Anglican. She lives next door to us and was very heavily involved in my upbringing. I think it was a mix of a love of tradition and a need to appease my grandmother that lead my parents to bring me up in a Christian manner.

However, as soon as I could really think for myself I questioned the very idea of God. I have been through a savagely athiestic phase and now I'm agnostic as to the existence of some kind of "creator" or "supreame being". I don't think one exists - I've been studying Philosophy for the last 3 years and I'm more sure than ever that it isn't reasonable to believe in a deity. However, reason doesn't dictate the truth, only what makes sense. I don't think God makes sense but that doesn't mean he/she/it doesn't exist.

What I can say is that I am not on good terms with deities. Even if one did exist and I could be sure of it, I still wouldn't love or worship it. I firmly believe that a god that is powerful enough to create the world should be able to have created a world that didn't involve the suffering of animals (both human and non-human) and didn't involve the huge environmental destruction we see. I can't understand why it would do that - to teach us something? Is anything worth the huge cost in lives that we see? From my point of view, either god doesn't care about the suffering or is too impotent to solve it. Neither warrant adoration, IMO. Besides, even if there is a mightly deity who created heaven and earth, that's just another creature living it's (possibly infinite) life on the plane of existance.

That said, I have absolutely no problem with people of faith. I simply ask that people don't try to convert me and that they try to understand my position before judging me. It's when people turn up at my door to convince me that God loves me and that I need to be "saved" that I got annoyed. Worse is when they grab me on the street when i am late for an exam and expect me to chat about why I abandoned #93### . . . ARG!
 
What I can say is that I am not on good terms with deities. Even if one did exist and I could be sure of it, I still wouldn't love or worship it. I firmly believe that a god that is powerful enough to create the world should be able to have created a world that didn't involve the suffering of animals (both human and non-human) and didn't involve the huge environmental destruction we see. I can't understand why it would do that - to teach us something? Is anything worth the huge cost in lives that we see? From my point of view, either god doesn't care about the suffering or is too impotent to solve it. Neither warrant adoration, IMO. Besides, even if there is a mightly deity who created heaven and earth, that's just another creature living it's (possibly infinite) life on the plane of existance.

i think thats where the "we fell from grace" part kicks in, not sure though.
 
What I can say is that I am not on good terms with deities. Even if one did exist and I could be sure of it, I still wouldn't love or worship it. I firmly believe that a god that is powerful enough to create the world should be able to have created a world that didn't involve the suffering of animals (both human and non-human) and didn't involve the huge environmental destruction we see. I can't understand why it would do that - to teach us something? Is anything worth the huge cost in lives that we see? From my point of view, either god doesn't care about the suffering or is too impotent to solve it. Neither warrant adoration, IMO. Besides, even if there is a mightly deity who created heaven and earth, that's just another creature living it's (possibly infinite) life on the plane of existance.

i think thats where the "we fell from grace" part kicks in, not sure though.

Yeah, there are loads of justifications for why there is suffering in the world. Free will, fallen from grace, original sin, etc. The Philosophy of Religion is an interesting subject and has much to say about the various qualities of deities and how/if certain actions can be justified.
 
What I can say is that I am not on good terms with deities. Even if one did exist and I could be sure of it, I still wouldn't love or worship it. I firmly believe that a god that is powerful enough to create the world should be able to have created a world that didn't involve the suffering of animals (both human and non-human) and didn't involve the huge environmental destruction we see. I can't understand why it would do that - to teach us something? Is anything worth the huge cost in lives that we see? From my point of view, either god doesn't care about the suffering or is too impotent to solve it. Neither warrant adoration, IMO. Besides, even if there is a mightly deity who created heaven and earth, that's just another creature living it's (possibly infinite) life on the plane of existance.

Do you know why God lets us suffer, and impact the environment? When God made us, he gives us the ability to have free choice. If not, he would be oppressive. Why would someone who loves you, and created you, want to oppress you? They wouldn't. That's the case with God. That is not to say that God is not sympathetic with the suffering. He sent his son to die on the cross! God is with you when your happy and sad, when your in pain or bliss, he is with the animal that's been hit by a car and is slowly dying, he is with the fish when it takes it's last breath. He is there to comfort you. But we have to think about this all the way back to the beginning. When God created the world, there was no sin, death, suffering, anything a long those lines. Everything was perfect. But when man turned his back on God and let sin into his life, that all came tumbling down. Which is why we are in the predicament we are in today. I hope I explained this well enough.
I'm happy that no, it wouldn't. I'm happy with how I live my life, I try and do good things, the 10 commandments are all safe. I have never cheated on my wife or any of my girlfriends. I try and help people if I can. The only thing I'm missing, is actually worshipping god. And I think if you live a good life full of good deeds, and try and spread happiness. That part would be forgiven anyway.

That's a popular mindset. If your good enough, you'll go to heaven. Your sins will be forgiven. Unfortunately, the Bible says that is wrong (which I believe to be true). In the Bible it says "no one is righteous , no not one". That along with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, and whomever believes in Him, shall never die (spiritually), but have eternal life". That points out that no matter how much good you do, we all sin. As a baby, we our born into sin. Babies and young children do go to heaven though, since they are not at an age where they can understand God and make a decision to follow him or turn their back on him.

a family member dying can be why people go. They can start going to hopefully get some comfort that they are still there. I think the way you view your religion is very pure. Which is a good thing. I think you're incredibly lucky to have a church like that. Maybe it's an American thing. Because here in the uk I've never seen a church like that. All the churches over here I've seen you go in, a part of the bible is read out. The vicar/priest tries to explain what the passage means. Then you sing some songs. Then you're asked for money on the way out to help repair the church. I've never seen a church here stray too far from that formula.

Thank you. Are the Churches you've been to Catholic (no offense), but from what I've seen and heard, Catholic Churches involve a scripture reading, asking for money, VERY boring hymn's, and a lot of tradition. Not saying that there are not true follows of JC in the Catholic Church, but when all of these things come together, it's hard to learn of God and follow him. All Churches ask for money. In the Bible it tells you to tithe 10 percent of your money. How else can the Church support it's pastor? Heating, cooling, electricity, water, land, building upkeep ect.? They can't. Then you have a youth group, they need money. How can you expect teens to pay their way across the globe for a missions trip in a destitute country? You can't. What about instruments for the band (if there is one). All in all, money is very important to the church (but from what I've seen, Catholic Churches tend to spend a lot of money on gold plating, and fancy architecture). I hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just an observation.
 
Thank you. Are the Churches you've been to Catholic (no offense), but from what I've seen and heard, Catholic Churches involve a scripture reading, asking for money, VERY boring hymn's, and a lot of tradition. Not saying that there are not true follows of JC in the Catholic Church, but when all of these things come together, it's hard to learn of God and follow him. All Churches ask for money. In the Bible it tells you to tithe 10 percent of your money. How else can the Church support it's pastor? Heating, cooling, electricity, water, land, building upkeep ect.? They can't. Then you have a youth group, they need money. How can you expect teens to pay their way across the globe for a missions trip in a destitute country? You can't. What about instruments for the band (if there is one). All in all, money is very important to the church (but from what I've seen, Catholic Churches tend to spend a lot of money on gold plating, and fancy architecture). I hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just an observation.


imo fits the bill with my church hehe, its not that boring once you get used to it, personally id rather have that than the ultra-super-duper party thing going down in a friend of mines church.
 
I've seen catholic, CofE, and a couple of others, never was fortunate enough to see a church with a band. Not seen one run a youth group either. Actually, there was one that ran a Sunday school for kids. But I haven't lived in that area for years.

Maybe if I'd seen your church, I'd still go. But prob not. I'm just not a believer.

The problem with any holy text, saying to go to heaven you must believe, is that A, they were written by men, men who wanted others to follow their religion. So lines like that make sense from their point of view, scare people into following. And B, most religions have that line, am I supposed to follow them all or would that be breaking a commandment?

If there is a god, then those who live good lives, and fo good things, will go to heaven IMO.

Obviously you choose to have faith, and believe in the bible, and it's contents, where I don't, and that's fine. But I just can't put my faith in a book which was written, compiled/edited, rewritten, and misinterpreted by men
 
I think on the point of righteousness, us non-believers that think we'd go to heaven if there was such a thing, are not righteous at all, we just live by good values which probably stem from old Christian values from years back. We can all say we've done bad things I am sure and in the Christian sense we do sin as much as the next man/woman but we generally live good lives and expect others to do the same.

Dare I say it, but I think a lot a church goers can be overly righteous as they think they have more of a right to go to heaven than the rest, I am sure if there is a god he won't care and it will be on our actions as human beings alone...otherwise he would be an unjust "ruler" of us all. To say we must pray, read the bible weekly and/or go to church etc to be allowed into heaven is just, as Chris said, scaring people into thinking they have to be part of a church/religion and man's doing...
 

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