What Goes In With My Oddballs?

[cane76]

what are the tanks dimensions?according to the index brown knife fish need a 55g tank minimum.all the other fish will be fine imo

 

[KathyM]

What are the dimensions of the tank? Because:

African Knife Fish - 12"
Senegal bichir - 12" to 20"
Peacock spiny eel - 14"
Synodontis eupterus - 8"

That's a hell of a lot of fish for a 38g if the profiles are right. You don't need to have owned them to be able to work that out from the profiles, as long as the profiles are correct of course.

 

[Gankutsuou]

Senegal bichir - 12" to 20"? they max at 12"
Peacock spiney eels max at 12", not 14... and are rarely seen over 10"
Synodontis eupterus - 8" <-- that's the only thing I'm slightly worried about, but the lfs I got them from says they haven't seen a single one of their ever get over 6 Inches. I think that's the same with clown loaches, but unsure.

erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they max at 12, and usually stick to 8. 20 inches would be an ornate you're thinking of.

And no. Not all at once.

A: I'll remove the danios, and put the senegal, and 2 eels in, and if I haven't gotten rid of it by then, the discus, so as to make up for the missing danios.

B: then I will remove the common pleco and trade it into the petstore with the danios, get the knife, and then let him into the tank to replace the poo machine known as the pleco.

C: I have like, a 55 gallon filter hooked up to this. It should be fine. I'll also have it heavily planted.

The tank is 3 feet long, which is why I feel it suited for the knife. 3ftx 1ft x 1 1/2 tall. And honestly, the chances of a fish actually getting to a max is 1/1000th. How many 8 inch clown loaches do you see floating around?

But, The african knife may be taken out of the plans due to tank width. I'll think on it.

edit-

I've spent a large amount of time looking up the things to make sure of compatibility and size. Honestly, the only mistake I could see might be the cat or the knife. The cat for its width, or the knife for being too big overall. And If I do somehow end up with a monster of a knife, I can give him to the LFS once they open up for trade again. (they do trade ins on and off. Depends how many monsterous plecos have been thrown on them and so forth)

edit again- I am looking at our fish profiles, and here's why these are misconceptions.
A: obviously a senegal or eel being 12 inch arent going to produce the waste of a normal fish (oscar or pleco for instance). And they'll probably going to only get to 10 inches.

B:Also, the tank does meet the requirements for those and the cat. I am probably going to hold out on the knife for a few months to see how they grow into it.

C: as for the info, Peacock eels have several different types, ranging from 6"-14", or something like that. I have the common one, which will probably stay at 10" tops. They like to bury in the substrate. The senegal will probably be the only thing up and about if the cat plans to keep sticking to the wall and the eels bury themselves which is why I'm considering the knife, who actually is kept with baby bichirs atm.

 

[§tudz]

Senegal bichir - 12" to 20"? they max at 12"

You are wrong, , its ll depends on which senegalus you obtain, they are:

- P. Senegalus Senegalus - Max 20"
- P. Senegalus Meridionalis - Max 28"

12" is an average size for them, but they can and will grow bigger.


As for Clown loaches they grow to 15" but they do grow slowly as they can live for 30years+

On the poop issue, Polyterus are piscivores and they produce LARGE waste, not in massive amounts but large as in size.

As everyone else has said, well more or less everyone, I wouldnt go with the knife fish in this setup.


can I ask why you class oscars and plecs as normal fish? aren't all fish normal hehehe!
Oscars and plecs are amongst the messiest fish you can keep, which you have correctly identified.

Just because the eels do bury themselves dont expect them to be there all the time, the syno' will stay hidden more than likely throughout the day but they are messy and boisturous in the night.

 

[KathyM]

Even at the lowest sizes given, that tank isn't suitable for all of them. I know some people like to cram as much fish as they can into a tank, but a 3ft tank isn't suitable, it just isn't.

 

[Gankutsuou]

yesh, which in theory should make senegals easier to clean up after with a gravel vac

hmmm. Yesh. I'm considering very much holding back onthe knife. But almost every single fish site on the web says 12 max, with 10 inches being common. We're talking about captivity, not in the wild. Clowns in captivilty rarely exceed 10 years and usually get to 6 inches, even when properly taken care of.

I'll wait 3 months as see how the tank goes before adding the knife. I may just get another peacock instead
although my final plan was to have tons of wisteria, which they can't uproot, and have 3 eels, the cat, the knife, and senegal, and let the african butterfly float around the top. In the future I'll have like, a 150 gallon tank when I move out on my own and have none of these problems probably in like, 15 years...

and kathy - it's because of the width of the eels and senegal that make this possible. they're flexible, turn, and do have room to strech out ect. The only stocking Issue is the knife(which I probably wont get now), and, if the cat gets over 7 inches, he may need to be rehomed too.

 

[KathyM]

Nowt to do with the width. It's because you want the fish. Well to be honest, there's no stopping you. Just like there's no stopping the idiots you see selling their 3ft setups on ebay crammed ull of unsuitable, stunted fish. I do wish people who came on here asking for advice would actually listen to it though, and not encourage this kind of poor fish keeping.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

honestly, i would feel uncomfortable having that many large bottom-dwelling fish in my 60g (4'x1'x2'). a big reason is that its difficult to create adequate hiding places in a tank that's only a foot wide--even for medium sized (5"-8") fish. stacked slate would probably work out, but driftwood would be tough to manage. how do you feel about pvc piping? and of course, once you've got enough adequately sized hiding places, you've had to sacrifice a lot of floorspace.

and when you say that you have a 55g filter, what does that translate to in gph? a lot of filter manufacturers say that their filter is suited for x size tank, but really the filter turns over only 2x gph. for good filtration, you want 3x-4x gph and for great filtration, you want 4x-5x gph. if your "55g filter" only runs at about 85-100 gph, then you'll definitely want to upgrade at some point. it won't be critical until all of your fish hit around 6", so that gives you a couple of months to keep an eye out for good online sales. if you shop around, you can get some great deals on high-end canisters (my eheims make me happy) and even better deals on decent brands (such as fluval). of course, for the extra $30, you get a better reputation, but sometimes that extra $30 just isn't there and reputation isn't everything.

one thing that you might want to consider is seeing if there's an aquarist's association in your area. i recently went to the Atlanta Aquarium Association fish auction and there was all sorts of good-condition used equipment selling for dirt. one guy got a 15g with stand, filter, heater, gravel, and a net for $30--all brand new. a huge 50g breeder (i'd guess about 3'x1.5'x2') went for $50. ditto for decor elements. since i know that your mom's attitude towards upgrading tanks again already is rather negative, you might want to see if you can't get permission to attend a local auction. most moms can be tempted by an excellent deal and most adults are suckers for "poor teenagers who really love fish" (i won my beloved red-head tapajos by looking pathetic and 16 ).

but back to the immediate subject at hand... check the gph on your filter (and is it a HOB or a canister?). and are you 100% positive that you want to put (10"+12"+10"+10"+8"+6") 56" of large-bodied fish in a 38g? even if your sengal stays dinky at 10", that's still a lot of fish!

 

[jayjay]

Some weird sizes stated in this topic, really.

As said though the stocking is heavy, though possible, though great filteration IMO is more than 5x an hour turnover.

You shouldn't hope your fish don't grow large, it's just asking for trouble.

 

[spAcE mOnkEy]

The senegal bichir is fine in that tank, and i believe the african brown knife is also. Hardly any senegal bichirs ever reach a foot in lenght! I doubt they would ever exceed 10 inches in captivity. The knife fish i have right now is the biggest ive ever seen. I really think though this plan would work with over filtration! I have about 500 gph worth in filters on my 55 gal. Im actually not too sure about the syndonis though...

Keep in mind ALOT of the fish he is getting are long bodied! The eels, bichir, knife,

 

[Gankutsuou]

yeah. The eels are fairly skinny compared to most fish, as the bichir is too. That's what makes them not apply to that 56" of fish IMO. And The peacock eels are actually burrowers by nature, so pvc isn;t necissary, and they can also hide in the wisteria. As for the knife, I have specific slate set up for him in the tank. I do have $30 left in store cred at a store, So I can hook up another filter. Right now I have a "whisper" filter, and could get another so as to make it up to 4 or 5x total Gallons per hour. How's that sound to help the stocking?

and stop being so negitive Kathy. I'm seriously considering holding back on the knife now

 

[pica_nuttalli]

please remember that inch per gallon only really applies to slim-bodied fish under 5" in length. larger fish simply have too much biomass for the estimate to apply after that point--and the change is not a decrease in necessary gallonage.

my point is that even if we were talking about neon tetras here, you'd be pretty substantially overstocked. i'm not saying that it can't be done, but can and should are different concepts.

please note also the tone of most of your tank descriptions. you generally sound like "oh, such-and-such doesn't *really* need extra places to hide or swim. it can just make do with a less-than ideal condition." you really don't sound committed to the creation of an above-mediocre environment for the fish. since most of these items and fish have not yet been purchased, i see no reason for this low standard. you aren't stuck with the stock you have because you haven't bought all of it yet. and because you haven't bought everything yet, you should still have additional money in your budget for equipment and decor.

you are also consistently planning for your fish not to reach their potential maximum size--which is tantamount to counting on them being stunted. what happens if you've underestimated them? right now, they'll be stuck in cramped, crowded, under-filtered conditions.

when underestimation fails, you are left with inadequacy. when overestimation fails, you are left with surplus. in this situation, surplus provisions are far preferable to inadequate provision. maybe we're being negative because we think that this isn't really a wonderful idea.

--EDIT--
heh, maybe i should have referred to 5x as simply "better" filtration

 

[Gankutsuou]

haha. I guess i'm comming across in the wrong way.

I ment it to come across as in, I'm actually going to bother with making space for each of them adequatly by doing this this and this. I guess I didn't detail enough.

A: I AM going to make a slate area either way, as I've already started that. I'm sure, if I do at all get the knife, that he'll enjoy it. If I don't get him, I'm sure the senegal will love going in and out just as much.

B: The slate isn't taking over a huge chunk, as eels love to dig into the substrate and poke just their heads out. there has to be room for this. They also enjoy getting up in wisteria and staring down, I guess a hunting habbit perhaps? So I want some of that in their too. The senegal does in once in a while as well.

C: I do care about the filtration and am working on it. I've got the whisper running at max and plan to use the 30 probably either towards habitiat or another filter. I've already spent quite a bit on things like 3 foot long onion plants that the catfish enjoys hiding in to the sides of the tank. these plants are also going to, I'm hoping, help the African butterfly feel better by having upper plants to hide in.

D: I see your point on heavy filtration and plan to meet. But what I'm trying to say is, these aren't your usual fish mass of 10 inches ect. And I kind of am planning for them to reach max. I got the tank with that in mind. Although it only meets minimal requirements, it was the biggest possible tank to get for the moment. So it's not less than Ideal. It is meeting minimum requirements on length. but I'm thinking the knife wont be happy. That's why I'm holding out on him. I may just get a 3rd spiney peacock, as they enjoy company of others.

E: I'm sorry if you all think I'm not getting a lot out of this, But I am. And I'm trying to work with it. k? And thanks a lot for putting up with me and helping thus far

 

[pica_nuttalli]

i don't consider minimum conditions to be ideal, but let's not quibble over adjectives.

i agree that it would probably be better to get another eel than the knife, simply because the eels like friends but the knife would be a loner. the senegal will need his own hidey place, the syno will need his own hidey place, and let's assume that eels would like a hidey place too. that's already a minimum of 3 and you'll want at least one extra in case the fish don't like one of your options lol: its amazing how often that happens). you'll need at least one 8" hiding spot per square foot of bottom and ideally 1.5-2 hiding spots per square foot.

i wouldn't spend much more money on large plants, simply because small plants grow into large plants anyways. and since all of your fish are still small, i would also save the $30 until you have enough additional money to get a heavy duty filter. you would be better off upgrading and using the whisper as a secondary filter. i personally like the canisters better, because they're not as noisy and seem to create better water circulation, but that's my personal preference. two HOBs, however, might cause too much surface turbulence for the happiness of your ABF.

how's progress on rehoming the discus? any new ideas?

 

[Gankutsuou]

That's the trouble. None of my LFS want a juvy discus thus far. They'd all love an adult one. But a juvy is "meh" to them.

Unless it's very colourful. Which mine is becoming. So I'm going to let him adjust two weeks, get some colour in, take a picutre, and see what that LFS thinks of him.

I'll also have a stop in at the main LFS who works mostly with only cichlids in freshwater. They have a nice section for them. I may be able to trade him in for some nice amount of slate there, as that's all they have that I could need (although I've already made a slate "hole", which properly could hide three eels and the bichir for now).

The Syno. Catfish, I already do have, which I forgot to say. My tank has been cycled by now, as I've given the alloted time ect. he takes to both corners with the onion/common val, and he stays stuck to those sides like a pleco (as they only swim with their belly to the surface of where they are swimming). But for now, he's fine. Next week I'll rehome the danios and common pleco at the LFS i got them from, probably just give them back, and let everything into the 38 gallon. I don't want to put everything in just yet though. I'm gonna give it another week or two before taking those out and letting the eels/bichir in. And hopefully by then the disc. will be rehomed

Hmmmmm...