I was stupid enough to pour in the water from the bag containing the daphnia last weekend... I'm going to get a tea sieve and sterilise my net so in future I can completely siphon the water off and separate the daphnia. Terrified I might have introduced something nasty now, not that I've noticed anything yet *touch wood*. I'm keeping to as regular a cleaning schedule as possible, having changed ~25% (10/10.5 litres) last Sunday, Wednesday, and yesterday, with the next planned change this coming Wednesday.
Unknown Ailment
- Thread starter Kaidonni
- Start date
Just making observations at the moment, trying not to jump to conclusions. Another WCMM is showing similar faeces of the stringy/clear/dotted with normal-looking faecal matter kind - sometimes almost completely normal looking - and since the weekend the Clown Loach has been hiding away in the castle and hardly coming out. He ate on Friday evening when I fed, but on Sunday I believe he was out of whack with the hour going forward - especially compared with when I prepared and fed pea (usually earlier than the flake food), that being a further hour earlier than normal. He also hardly came out yesterday, and did a little bit of shimmying (he did stop, but it concerned me that he did it at all). Basically, he's seeming inactive and not interested in feeding time as much, although it may be due to various factor such as loneliness and changes in feeding times (I did knock the castle on Saturday during a water change and trying to get the gravel vac between it and the heater). I've also noticed some darting with the WCMMs, although they are as active as ever and have quite the appetite.
I tested the water Sunday evening, and I did both a 10.5l water change yesterday and a 4l change today (the latter because he didn't eat much last night, so a gravel vac seemed wise). I am concerned that pH may slowly be on the increase (only ever so slightly, but I think there has been a change), confused with nitrates due to the test advice (the test advice to hold against the booklets with a light source behind seems erroneous - the light will cast shadows through the test tube and make the test water look far more vivid and even shaded than the booklet charts show). No problems with either ammonia or nitrites. I am beginning to think now is the time to scale back these water changes - 10.5l equates to over 20% at the moment (44-45l), and twice a week this may be rather excessive.
I tested the water Sunday evening, and I did both a 10.5l water change yesterday and a 4l change today (the latter because he didn't eat much last night, so a gravel vac seemed wise). I am concerned that pH may slowly be on the increase (only ever so slightly, but I think there has been a change), confused with nitrates due to the test advice (the test advice to hold against the booklets with a light source behind seems erroneous - the light will cast shadows through the test tube and make the test water look far more vivid and even shaded than the booklet charts show). No problems with either ammonia or nitrites. I am beginning to think now is the time to scale back these water changes - 10.5l equates to over 20% at the moment (44-45l), and twice a week this may be rather excessive.
Last night I noticed the Clown Loach's gilling was very rapid. I shone a small torch near to him to see if I could notice anything with the gills themselves, but I didn't see anything to the best of my knowledge. I kept observing him afterwards, and the rapid gilling remained.
I am considering replacing the filter wool with some activated carbon, just a quick 5 minute switch from the normal polyester pads I use, in case there are any particles in the tank that are irritating the fish. I am also considering temporarily disabling the air stone in case there is an over-abundance of oxygen in the water. However replacing the filter pad is a tricky situation if it turns out to be completely the wrong one, as I can't keep replacing even the middle pad too often (and if I have to replace it after 24 hours because it isn't some environmental issue and I require medicine...).
EDIT: Possibly Velvet? I can't be completely certain, but either something in the water is irritating the fish, or a more specific disease is causing the rapid gill movement. Not too many things will cause rapid gilling which helps a little with diagnosis. There isn't any flashing/scratching against objects, but then there doesn't *need* to be for it to be Velvet. I shone a small torch directly at the skin towards the Clown Loach's caudal fin, and the black stripe appears to have a (horizontal) golden shine to it. Now, it's whether I'm correctly interpreting the look of the skin under direct torch light, or just thinking it's something when any Clown Loach's skin might look like that...
I am considering replacing the filter wool with some activated carbon, just a quick 5 minute switch from the normal polyester pads I use, in case there are any particles in the tank that are irritating the fish. I am also considering temporarily disabling the air stone in case there is an over-abundance of oxygen in the water. However replacing the filter pad is a tricky situation if it turns out to be completely the wrong one, as I can't keep replacing even the middle pad too often (and if I have to replace it after 24 hours because it isn't some environmental issue and I require medicine...).
EDIT: Possibly Velvet? I can't be completely certain, but either something in the water is irritating the fish, or a more specific disease is causing the rapid gill movement. Not too many things will cause rapid gilling which helps a little with diagnosis. There isn't any flashing/scratching against objects, but then there doesn't *need* to be for it to be Velvet. I shone a small torch directly at the skin towards the Clown Loach's caudal fin, and the black stripe appears to have a (horizontal) golden shine to it. Now, it's whether I'm correctly interpreting the look of the skin under direct torch light, or just thinking it's something when any Clown Loach's skin might look like that...
Can you post your water stats please. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
Signs of velvet.
Yellow to golden coloured spots.
Gold dusting.
Rusty coloured varnish on fish body.
Laboured breathing, or gasping as surface of tank.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting, or signs of erratic swimming.
Excess slime production.
.
.
Signs of velvet.
Yellow to golden coloured spots.
Gold dusting.
Rusty coloured varnish on fish body.
Laboured breathing, or gasping as surface of tank.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting, or signs of erratic swimming.
Excess slime production.
.
.
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - 10-20ppm
pH - ~7.5
As consistent as ever. I almost mucked the Nutrafin ammonia test up this time round, a droplet went on the inside of the test tube, but shaking the test tube up for the test eliminates that issue. The API test...I don't know if a droplet accidentally went in from the dropper or not, so I counted 8 and 7 from the two bottles in case (still looked like the same results when I know for certain I've done it right - I did once switch the tops by accident...). The Nutrafin nitrite test I forgot to shake up for a minute, but I left it two minutes before checking. Test kit is a year and three months old now, give or take a few weeks, so I'll fork out the cash for a new one soon (and I'll have seven test tubes then). I always fill to the 5ml line as the pipettes I use have a nasty habit of getting air bubbles in them, making it difficult to properly measure 5ml out. I have a few syringes that came with the levacide, so it might pay to try one of those. I always try to be as consistent as possible between every test.
When I put the water on Monday, family members were walking around after having sprayed their hair with hair spray, but that was before I got home and put the water (there was still the smell when they walked past). Now, I have OCD, so I have to be very careful about how I prepare the water (including emptying the bucket out a few dozen times, just a small amount of water trickling out into the sink, making sure nothing spits back up...yeah, not making it up), and also what I perceive to be threats (even the slightest smell of clean clothes makes me worry that it'll contaminate the water). Used that water for a 10.5l change on Tuesday, and put more water for a 4l change on Wednesday (had to swill the bucket out and empty it outside Tuesday - the day when there was smog about...). Last Saturday, cleaning behind the castle, got a load of crap out of the gravel because I've hardly ever cleaned there (same under the castle, last did that three weeks ago after the other Clown Loach died), wondering if it dislodged anything dangerous or not.
Since as everything is running through my mind, there are still the lead(?) clamps some plants come in present in the tank. Metal poisoning? Or am I just letting my mind wander on to anything that could possibly cause problems, no matter how remote that chance is?
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - 10-20ppm
pH - ~7.5
As consistent as ever. I almost mucked the Nutrafin ammonia test up this time round, a droplet went on the inside of the test tube, but shaking the test tube up for the test eliminates that issue. The API test...I don't know if a droplet accidentally went in from the dropper or not, so I counted 8 and 7 from the two bottles in case (still looked like the same results when I know for certain I've done it right - I did once switch the tops by accident...). The Nutrafin nitrite test I forgot to shake up for a minute, but I left it two minutes before checking. Test kit is a year and three months old now, give or take a few weeks, so I'll fork out the cash for a new one soon (and I'll have seven test tubes then). I always fill to the 5ml line as the pipettes I use have a nasty habit of getting air bubbles in them, making it difficult to properly measure 5ml out. I have a few syringes that came with the levacide, so it might pay to try one of those. I always try to be as consistent as possible between every test.
When I put the water on Monday, family members were walking around after having sprayed their hair with hair spray, but that was before I got home and put the water (there was still the smell when they walked past). Now, I have OCD, so I have to be very careful about how I prepare the water (including emptying the bucket out a few dozen times, just a small amount of water trickling out into the sink, making sure nothing spits back up...yeah, not making it up), and also what I perceive to be threats (even the slightest smell of clean clothes makes me worry that it'll contaminate the water). Used that water for a 10.5l change on Tuesday, and put more water for a 4l change on Wednesday (had to swill the bucket out and empty it outside Tuesday - the day when there was smog about...). Last Saturday, cleaning behind the castle, got a load of crap out of the gravel because I've hardly ever cleaned there (same under the castle, last did that three weeks ago after the other Clown Loach died), wondering if it dislodged anything dangerous or not.
Since as everything is running through my mind, there are still the lead(?) clamps some plants come in present in the tank. Metal poisoning? Or am I just letting my mind wander on to anything that could possibly cause problems, no matter how remote that chance is?
Oh, nothing gets sprayed by the tank. It's the bucket of water I was concerned about, but as I said, I have to be wary of what I get concerned about or I'll end up emptying the bucket out dozens of times until I'm satisfied it's completely clean (even if it wasn't contaminated in the first place).
The Clown Loach is still lethargic, hiding in the castle, rapid gilling (even without torchlight shone on him, as I observed him last night before and after shining it at his gills - the rapid gill movement was why I investigated so closely). Not eating, not even interested in that any longer. The WCMMs still seem darty, although I do get close to the tank so it might be that (or a combination). The faecal matter is back and forth, and the one WCMM in particular whom I first noticed with the issue had relatively normal-looking faeces today after consuming pea and some flake food yesterday. The WCMMs are still active, the males still womanising...
It might be when I poured in the water from the bag with the daphnia, but since the WCMMs guzzled down the daphnia, if that water had any harmful bacteria or parasites present, then I'd expect the daphnia to have been carrying some also (putting me back in the same position if it is that - the WCMMs would have eaten the nasty stuff just through the daphnia even if I siphoned it all out).
The Clown Loach is still lethargic, hiding in the castle, rapid gilling (even without torchlight shone on him, as I observed him last night before and after shining it at his gills - the rapid gill movement was why I investigated so closely). Not eating, not even interested in that any longer. The WCMMs still seem darty, although I do get close to the tank so it might be that (or a combination). The faecal matter is back and forth, and the one WCMM in particular whom I first noticed with the issue had relatively normal-looking faeces today after consuming pea and some flake food yesterday. The WCMMs are still active, the males still womanising...
It might be when I poured in the water from the bag with the daphnia, but since the WCMMs guzzled down the daphnia, if that water had any harmful bacteria or parasites present, then I'd expect the daphnia to have been carrying some also (putting me back in the same position if it is that - the WCMMs would have eaten the nasty stuff just through the daphnia even if I siphoned it all out).
Bless Him.
If there no flicking and rubbing it not sounding like parasites at the moment.
Rapid gill movement, acting listless and lethargic, not eating can be signs also of a
bacterial infection.
If there no flicking and rubbing it not sounding like parasites at the moment.
Rapid gill movement, acting listless and lethargic, not eating can be signs also of a
bacterial infection.
I have been advised to wait a little longer before dosing with anything (by a vet who specialises in tropical freshwater fish). I did purchase some NT Labs Anti-Internal Bacteria (#10) as well as eSHa Exit to be on the completely safe side, but the NT Labs Anti-Internal Bacteria contains not only copper and chloramine-T, it doesn't state how much of the product contains copper (unlike eSHa 2000), and having White Cloud Mountain Minnows that are sensitive to copper...I've emailed their helpline about this, as if the levels aren't going to be harmful (and let's face it, I may have to use a medicine that contains copper, as in the case of Velvet), I don't wish to rush all over the place researching and trying to source an alternative I don't actually need and that may not arrive in time. One good question is whether or not it is specifically internal bacteria, because I can't dose with one medicine only to find I need another instead (I was going to put activated carbon in the tank yesterday, but anticipated that if I needed to dose shortly afterwards, it would entail messing with the filter too much).
I suppose up to another week and if the symptoms haven't subsided or have worsened, I'll have to give it my best educated guess - that's all I have. If only I could have an obvious symptom (that isn't part of a secondary infection)...hopefully one appears soon so I can choose the right medicine.
I suppose up to another week and if the symptoms haven't subsided or have worsened, I'll have to give it my best educated guess - that's all I have. If only I could have an obvious symptom (that isn't part of a secondary infection)...hopefully one appears soon so I can choose the right medicine.
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