The New Kids On The Block - 6 C. Atropersonatus

[Syphoniera]

Hi,
speaking as one who knows nothing, is it possible that the fact the sand was being blown through their gills could be related in some way to the problems and deaths?
Could the redness on the bellies possibly be due to friction from the silica sand?
Silica particles can cause cancer and respiratory damage in humans when inhaled, being very hard and sharp at the microscopic level: could it have caused internal damage, not only potentially to the gills but elsewhere, some amount perhaps having been swallowed and causing some irritation/infection/blockage?
Also - if the sand wears the barbels in some cases to nubs, a problem you've stated not to be present on pea gravel, would it perhaps be safest keeping them on the pea gravel, at least for a while?
Could the increase in activity you've noted in the bare-bottom tank be related to increased health and comfort, with less friction also on tender tummies when on the ground, etc.?

As stated, I know nothing about cories; however, these do appear to me at least to be points worth forwarding for your consideration.
And I do hope the rest of your little beauties will be alright.

Thanks for the post Syphoniera.

Yes, I've considered all of the points you've mentioned. I was told by some pretty knowledgeable people that they've kept Corys with silica sand with no adverse affects.

Corys normally sift sand looking for tidbits.

However, I am going to remove the silica sand from the 25 and replace it with beach sand. Now, whether I'll put them back in or put them in a tank with smooth pea gravel like my other Corys are in, I don't know. I've been told that I may have more problems with the pea gravel than with the sand. Their natural environment is smooth sand, the finer the better.

But they are staying in the bare bottom tank until their barbels have grown back. It's worth pointing out that not all of them have abraded barbels. One of them has more or less normal looking barbels.

I appreciate your time for the post. You've made some excellent points and you've strengthened my resolve to remove the silica sand.

Cheers.

I figured you'd probably considered everything of the type, but since this seemed to potentially cover so many of the problems...
I did feel rather silly sticking my know-nothing nose in, but generally feel it's better looking like an idiot, (which I should be used to by now) than not mentioning something that might, perhaps, have helped.
And the particular batch of silica might have been harsher than usual, possibly from some different geographical area or different action of grinding, or that particular type of cory more susceptible.
I just thought it would be so awful both for them and you if they were doing so much better and then further irritated their gills or whatever else by running even beach sand through...
Anyway, I'm glad they're doing so much better and I'm sure the rest will be fine now.
One of the few things I do know about cories, whether more rare and unusual or of the more common varieties, is what engaging little individuals they can be.
Gotta love 'em.

 

[Cory_Dad]

No no no! There is absolutely no need to apologize or feel silly for your post.

I've always been wary of using silica sand but couldn't find conclusive evidence that it was 'evil'. Although this hobby is based on chemistry, there's no 100% right way or wrong way to do things. (Ok, don't add chlorine to the water, but you know what I'm getting at). Although this is suppose to be based on science, I think there's a lot of 'art' involved as well.

I always appreciate people's experience and suggestions. Your arguments made a lot of sense and as I pointed out, I had come to the same conclusion.

Oh, fyi, I just bought and installed into the 25 a hydor koralia 2. The current it creates is not as strong as the quiet1one 3000 I use to pump water with after a water change but there is movement. The guy at Big Al's suggested the koralia 1 was more than enough but I'm wondering if I shouldn't have bought the 3. I'm tempted to hook up my quiet1one 1200 permanently in the tank to get a stronger current. I sometimes think I'm like Tim 'The Tool Man' Taylor; more power! Ar, ar, ar! (American television show).

Cheers.

 

[Azarak]

No worries, always good to try help out other aquarists.

Regarding the pH I guess it will vary alot especially considering where they came from (i.e. if direct from wild or been in someone's aquarium at a strong/weak pH).

If you have heard they are not a fan of plants personally I would suggest going without them atleast till they have been well established. I try to keep my corrys in shallow tanks (of if not possible limit the height of the water in the tank) so it is more like their natural habitat.

I might have to try the current in some of my tanks if it does offer a good benefit to them, as I know it is suggested for quite a few of them.

Again good luck with them and hopefully will start to become more popular and eventually make their way over here to Aus.

 

[Cory_Dad]

No worries, always good to try help out other aquarists.

Regarding the pH I guess it will vary alot especially considering where they came from (i.e. if direct from wild or been in someone's aquarium at a strong/weak pH).

If you have heard they are not a fan of plants personally I would suggest going without them atleast till they have been well established. I try to keep my corrys in shallow tanks (of if not possible limit the height of the water in the tank) so it is more like their natural habitat.

I might have to try the current in some of my tanks if it does offer a good benefit to them, as I know it is suggested for quite a few of them.

Again good luck with them and hopefully will start to become more popular and eventually make their way over here to Aus.

Thanks Azarak.

These are wild caught. Since there are only 5 left out of the original 9 it seems a bit silly to put them into the 25 so I'll either leave em where they are with the bare bottom or move em into the other 10 gallon with the sand. The Hydor koralia 2 I bought for the 25 is a bit of over kill (no sh1t, it created a sand dune with the silica sand). So much for not trusting the sales rep when he said buy the Koralia 1. So putting the 2 into the 10 gallon will, I suspect, keep the Corys plastered against the side of the tank with the current.

As I always say, if it's worth doing, it's worth OVER doing.

I got all the silica out over the weekend from the 25 and added the beach sand, but have nothing to put into the tank. The lfs has hinted it's going to get in quite a number of wild caught Cories next week, so we'll see.

I suppose if they do come in and I buy them, I'll need to test the pH there and make sure what I have in my tank(s) matches it.

Hmm, you know, raising common guppies sure sounds a lot easier right about now.

Cheers.

 

[ICEEGRL]

I am sure you know how strong the current has to be for white water. This would suggest that the more movement the better.
Most corys do enjoy playing in bubbles. It gives them the same feel as a decent current.
I don't understand why they did not like and do well on the first sand, but hopefully this new sand will do better. Sand should do better than gravel. It has for all of mine. The only thing I can figure is that you maybe got some bad sand.
I have always been told to acclimate the fish to your ph instead of trying to change it. It is supposed to be better for the fish. It avoids the swings trying to keep it level... Things like the wood and leaves will help some, but to change it very much you will need to add a lot, and let the tannis build up where the water looks a bit like tea. The water will have a brown tint to it. I like the effect and so do my fish, but some people don't. Is the wood you added turning the water brown? If not either you don't have the right kind... or it just hasn't been in there long enough. Sometimes it can take a couple of weeks to get the tannis built up enough.
Even though the fish may have come from a place without plants... I have never seen a cory that did not love them. The plants will also help tons with keeping the water quality better. This also takes a little time. They have to settle in and have time to start growing.
Coconut caves are great too. Corys love to hide in them and they also release tannis into the water. Another bonus is you can tie plants to them just like other kinds of wood. They are pretty easy to make too.
I would think the smaller tank has more water flow and that is why they like it better. If you up the flow in the larger one they might be just as active. Also you might try water changes twice a week instead of once for a little while.
With only having a few left I would go with the shorter tank. It is easier to get a better flow in the tank with the shorter ones. I put my filter on one end and a bubble bar all the way across the back except for where the intake is. That tends to keep the water moving through the whole tank with no dead spots. Then I use plants and caves to give them hiding and resting spots. I leave a space in the front for them to play in the sand and feed. As we all know though what works for one may not work for others. I do tend to keep lots of wood in my tanks also. My tanks tend to keep a light tea color to the water, and my ph in my tanks usually run about 1 to 2 points lower than my tap water. I just have to watch doing big water changes. That causes swings. I do more smaller ones so it don't swing much at all.
I hope something in here has helped at least a little.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Hi ICEEGRL!

Well, it was unused silica sand that I rinsed 8 times and let age for 3 weeks in the tank so not sure what you mean by 'bad'. I didn't boil it so maybe they was something in it. But it's the fact that the barbels were all worn down that lead me to believe it was sand abrasion.

I've manged to get the pH down in the 10 gallon to ~7.5 from ~7.9. The mixture I figured out to keep it around there is 10 parts tap water with 8 parts RO water.

I haven't added the Mopani wood to the 25 yet as I'm still in the middle of setting it up. I switched out the silica over the weekend (did I already say that in a previous post?) with beach sand. I'll take a close up picture of the two together so you'll get a feal for the difference.

I have 3 pieces of Malaysian wood in my 60 and it makes 0 difference in the pH reading and I suspect I will find the same thing in the 25 as of the weekly water changes. The water colour wouldn't bother me but I think I'll get more consistency using RO water.

The Cocoa nut caves sounds interesting, I'll keep an eye out for them.

As for current, it would seem the Eheim 2115, the AquaClear 70 and the air stone current weren't enough so I went out and bought a Hydor Koralia 2. When I placed it into the 25 with the silica sand about 3 inches off the bottom and turned it on, I created a sand dune around the middle of the tank. I should have listened to the sales rep and bought the Koralia 1. If this isn't enough current for them then I also have a Lifeguard Quietone 3000 submersible pump. With that they'll think Katrina is back.

Everything you post I appreciate and take into consideration.

Thank you.

 

[Cory_Dad]

I've taken a picture to show the silica and beach sand side by side.

The silica sand granules seem to be quite uniform in size but the beach sand is all over the place.

The silica sand doesn't seem to be that sharp looking either.

So, which is better for the Corys?

 

[ICEEGRL]

Coconut caves--- go to the grocery store.
Get a couple of coconuts.
Cut them in half.
Scrape the inside and clean well.
Cut a piece off one end for a door.
Sand sharp spots.
Boil a few minutes then place them in the tank.
This will give you 2 caves from each nut. You can play with the shape to get different shapes and sizes.

I meant bad= rough or contaminated... it don't look rough... and I think you washed it enough.

I don't understand the wood not bringing the ph down at least a little.

I am stumped.
I am really sorry. I wish I had actually been of some help. I really don't understand what you have going on.

 

[Cory_Dad]

That goes for both of us, not knowing what is going on.

Do you mean cocoa nut (where chocolate comes from) or coconut (the stuff you put on coconut cream pies)?

I've never seen cocoa nuts in the grocery store and I'm not certainly flying to St. Lucia again to get some (they grow all over the island, I should post some of my pics).

Anyway, off to the cottage for the weekend, need to close it up for the winter.

Till Sunday night, cheers.

 

[StrontiumDog]

Hi Cory_Dad,

Coconut is what "ICEEGRL" ment

 

[ICEEGRL]

I fixed it.

The kind that goes on the pies... and candy and stuff. (The stuff you do see in the store.)

 

[drewry]

just buy a whole Coconut Cory_Dad
the best thing about me is im in hull and weve got hull fair in a few days and we can get a coconut for 50p from the local fair
thats what ICEEGRL means get a Coconut cut it in half make a hole on each ov the halves and uv got 2 caves

 

[Cory_Dad]

Got ya. Now I understand.

Thank you.