The New Kids On The Block - 6 C. Atropersonatus

[jollysue]

Yeah, I'm sorry, too. Sometimes I get a fish that just doesn't like my water (ph or whatever.) I had trouble with the reticulatus when I first got them and with some of Frank Falcone's youngsters. I am pretty sure wih Frank's it was the change in water chemistry, and they were young. My supplier of wild caught said that reticulatus don't ship well, so I accept that. He is sending me more soon.

He said that aquarium bred sometimes have more trouble adapting to different water chemestry than they were bred in. With Frank's I would think they were finally ok, do a water change and <<Bang!>> down another would go. It was not all of them, just a couple of the species: prionotos and C118. It wasn't Frank's fault, just how it is. Bryan told me I needed to drip acclimate every time I did a water change with them, which I didn't of course. I lost 2 or 3 shipments of each. I now have one fish of each species. The C118 was impatient and has cross bred. He has the cutest little half breeds now. I have a firm commitment from Frank to get more to me.

There are so many variables. It is hard to tell. Have you checked anywhere about whether anyone else has had trouble with the species? Have you double checked their ph and Gh and temp requirements?

I lost a few albino peppers this summer to high tank temps and fluctuations in temps. If the fish is stressed and the temps are out of their comfort range and then there are fluctuations, the weaker of a group may not acclimate.

These are just a few of the things I have found that can affect a group. As I have said before, I have put 2 species of fish with the same general requirements in the same tank at the same time from the same supplier in the same shipment, and one group thrived and bred while the other group died 1 or 2 a day until they were all gone.

It is not always desease.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Good point.

I haven't measured the KH or GH because a) I figured what's the point? I don't really want to be tied to having constantly monitoring and adjusting it and b) I don't have a kit.

I figured if they survived a week in the lfs then I at least had a good chance. I think it may have to do with the double does of Excel; or not. I think I will go out and buy one just so I can find out what it is.

It should also be noted that in the case of both deaths it was the smallest of the group that died.

I must confess that I'm not as rabidly immersed in this like some of the other 'most illustrious' Corydoras keepers (that was not a dig/jibe/put-down/sarcasm but rather a show of deep respect). I do not have the time or the space and also at this point, the knowledge. Which is not to say that that I won't become rabid at some later time

I just want to learn as much as I can, keep them alive as long as I can, get them to breed whenever they want to and have fun doing it all within the comfort of my boundaries and limits.

And with all your help, I hope to expand those boundaries (within my current limits).

Cheers (and thanks).

 

[Cory_Dad]

Just lost another one.

I posted in the emergencies area and a few other places but it was too late. He was dead this morning.

I need to lower the pH as that's what several people said was the problem. I think. It's kind of ironic in light of my comments to you several days ago. Any suggestions on the best way to accomplish this?

As for the lasers, I think the vendor's going to keep them.

 

[jollysue]

I saw the post in emergency. The suggestion of parasites is the reason I am sometimes hesitant to recommend the emergency section. The folks in the UK have problems that we don't have much--such as major parasite problems other than the common ich.

When I do send someone I encourage them to ask for Wilder.

Do you know your pH and KH and GH or whatever? (I have never tested for the GH or KH and don't understand them much. I am with you, I don't want to do that much with the water.)

The suggestion that was made to me by Bryan when I got some fish from Coryologist that seemed to die everytime I did a water change was to drip acclimate at each water change. I also of course would be sure to be running carbon when not medicating--just in case.

 

[Cory_Dad]

I saw the post in emergency. The suggestion of parasites is the reason I am sometimes hesitant to recommend the emergency section. The folks in the UK have problems that we don't have much--such as major parasite problems other than the common ich.

When I do send someone I encourage them to ask for Wilder.

Do you know your pH and KH and GH or whatever? (I have never tested for the GH or KH and don't understand them much. I am with you, I don't want to do that much with the water.)

The suggestion that was made to me by Bryan when I got some fish from Coryologist that seemed to die everytime I did a water change was to drip acclimate at each water change. I also of course would be sure to be running carbon when not medicating--just in case.

pH is 7.6+ no idea about hardness but I really do need to go out and buy a kit. I'm looking into buying a RO filter to get the hardness down. I'm sick of these beauties dying.

 

[jollysue]

The drip acclimation at water changes is to help them. I think the idea is to acclimate them to your water. But it takes time to change their basic acclimation in some things. Often they can tolerate intermittant changes for brief periods, but long term takes time. Were these wild caught. WC tend to be better at adapting and taking the changes.

From this it appears that it should not be the ph unless they were tank bred in a very different water:
fishbase

Well, at any rate, I am really sorry about the loss. It is a real blow to lose lovely fish. It is part of the hobby I am afraid to be brought low by failure. One minute up with lovely new fish or babies and then crashing down with nasty out of our control losses!

 

[Cory_Dad]

I'm getting very frustrated; I lost another one this morning. He didn't have the blotches or white stuff but internally his belly was red.

I did a 50% water change then waited. I'm going to resume the Maracyn later this evening. I'm a firm believer in completing antibiotics so I don't get super bugs.

I've ordered an RO system because I don't know what else to do. If you look closely at the picture I've posted I think you'll see that the barbels are worn, at least I think they are. I'm going to replace the silica sand with pea gravel. Don't know if it will solve anything but I've never had a problem with the pea gravel, that I can tell. If in doubt, do what's worked in the past.

I know I'm firing off in all directions with this but after 2 deaths doing the same old same old isn't working.

 

[ICEEGRL]

Hey. I am really sorry to hear that you are having problems with these little beauties.
I really don't think the ph is your problem, but just incase... if you want an easy way to lower it... add drift wood. The tannis lowers it naturally. Peat in the filter will do it too. This will eliminate the need for chemicals.

Amanda

 

[Cory_Dad]

Hey. I am really sorry to hear that you are having problems with these little beauties.
I really don't think the ph is your problem, but just incase... if you want an easy way to lower it... add drift wood. The tannis lowers it naturally. Peat in the filter will do it too. This will eliminate the need for chemicals.

Amanda

Thanks for that.

You may be right about the pH not being the problem. At this point I'm rather heart broken about the 4 losses. Ya, they're only fish but...

Update: I've got the RO filter running and now have 5 gallons of RO water. Great! Now what? How do I leverage this to bring down the pH of, let's start with, a 10 gallon tank with a pH of 7.8? I'm a bit reluctant to play mad chemist and start experimenting with my tanks. And once I do get it down to 7.2, how do I maintain it without wild fluctuations?

I've just moved the C. atropersonatus out of the 25 gallon with the silica sand back into the bare bottom quarantine tank. On a couple of them their barbels are just stubs. That's not good. They were long when I first got them. Was it the silica sand that did it? Or was it something else? I asked god and he's not talking to me right now (notice the lowercase 'g' to circumvent the blasphemy rule). I had started a course of Melafix in the 25 and will be continuing it in the QT. I did notice that after moving them they seemed more active. Interesting... We'll see what tomorrow brings.

I've got a 10 gallon cycling (for the last 2 weeks) and I just put in some Bomax beach sand. Washed it a couple of times and have used clarifier twice to remove the fine particles. It's now just slightly tinged. Trouble is, I'm petrified to move my 'babies' to the tank.

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated and considered.

Cheers.

 

[ICEEGRL]

The drift wood lowers it, and you don't have to work to keep it level. It will be pretty stable. The only swing you may have is with large water changes. Even then it shouldn't be much of a swing. The more wood (tannis) the more it will lower it. It works great. It is the easiest way to do it. You just add the wood and forget it.

Corys also really like the wood and the tannis in the water...

 

[Cory_Dad]

The drift wood lowers it, and you don't have to work to keep it level. It will be pretty stable. The only swing you may have is with large water changes. Even then it shouldn't be much of a swing. The more wood (tannis) the more it will lower it. It works great. It is the easiest way to do it. You just add the wood and forget it.

Corys also really like the wood and the tannis in the water...

Are you sure about the driftwood? I have 3 pieces in my 60 gallon and it's the exact same pH as all my other tanks without any wood. I'm going to use the RO water (I bought the #$%^ RO filter and I'm going to use it even if it kills me) to initially slowly lower th pH to 7.4 to 7.2. Once there I'll maintain buckets of premixed watter at that pH. I've also purchased some wood that will be going into the tank plus I'll be adding oak leaves.

The Bomax beach sand in the 10 gallon looks great. I'm hoping over this weekend siphon out the silica sand from the 25 and replace it with beach sand. It's weird but the atropersonatus seem to like the bare bottom 10 gallon better than the 25 with silica sand. They are a lot more active swimming in a group all over the place. They didn't group much in the 25. I also move the air stone curtain from the 25 to the 10 but it's just sort of hanging horizontally in the middle of the tank. These guys love to swim through the curtain of bubbles! I don't know if it's the bare bottom, the smaller tank, the shallower tank or the Melafix treatment. I'm almost afraid to move them back to the 25 after seeing them so active.

Maybe, once the treatment is finished, I could slowly add beach sand to the existing tank and see how they fair. If they are still happy then I'll try the 25 again with the beach sand or maybe even to other 10 with the beach sand.

The reason I don't want to leave them in the existing 10 gallon is because it sits sideways on the table beside the fry tank and the 20 long so I can only view them from the side.

Maybe I'm just analyzing this too much, or should that be annal-izing? ;-)

Cheers.

 

[Syphoniera]

Hi,
speaking as one who knows nothing, is it possible that the fact the sand was being blown through their gills could be related in some way to the problems and deaths?
Could the redness on the bellies possibly be due to friction from the silica sand?
Silica particles can cause cancer and respiratory damage in humans when inhaled, being very hard and sharp at the microscopic level: could it have caused internal damage, not only potentially to the gills but elsewhere, some amount perhaps having been swallowed and causing some irritation/infection/blockage?
Also - if the sand wears the barbels in some cases to nubs, a problem you've stated not to be present on pea gravel, would it perhaps be safest keeping them on the pea gravel, at least for a while?
Could the increase in activity you've noted in the bare-bottom tank be related to increased health and comfort, with less friction also on tender tummies when on the ground, etc.?

As stated, I know nothing about cories; however, these do appear to me at least to be points worth forwarding for your consideration.
And I do hope the rest of your little beauties will be alright.

 

[Azarak]

Sorry to hear about your issues with these little guys. I have long been trying to find some here (Australia) with no luck, as I have long loved the look of them. Actually came across this site when doing a bit of Cory research today

I went and looked them up in a text and got the preferred tank specs for them

pH - 6-7
Temp 21-24C

I dont know how often you are changing the water but they are very sensitive to nitrates (as I think was mentioned) so changes once a day or every 2 days could be very useful in keeping these.

The text also mentions a mild current should be provided. Don't know if you have tried this or how easy it would be to create something like this, having never done it myself for any of the species I keep but if it is not hard to do something like this, can’t hurt to try.

-Ross

 

[Cory_Dad]

Hi,
speaking as one who knows nothing, is it possible that the fact the sand was being blown through their gills could be related in some way to the problems and deaths?
Could the redness on the bellies possibly be due to friction from the silica sand?
Silica particles can cause cancer and respiratory damage in humans when inhaled, being very hard and sharp at the microscopic level: could it have caused internal damage, not only potentially to the gills but elsewhere, some amount perhaps having been swallowed and causing some irritation/infection/blockage?
Also - if the sand wears the barbels in some cases to nubs, a problem you've stated not to be present on pea gravel, would it perhaps be safest keeping them on the pea gravel, at least for a while?
Could the increase in activity you've noted in the bare-bottom tank be related to increased health and comfort, with less friction also on tender tummies when on the ground, etc.?

As stated, I know nothing about cories; however, these do appear to me at least to be points worth forwarding for your consideration.
And I do hope the rest of your little beauties will be alright.

Thanks for the post Syphoniera.

Yes, I've considered all of the points you've mentioned. I was told by some pretty knowledgeable people that they've kept Corys with silica sand with no adverse affects.

Corys normally sift sand looking for tidbits.

However, I am going to remove the silica sand from the 25 and replace it with beach sand. Now, whether I'll put them back in or put them in a tank with smooth pea gravel like my other Corys are in, I don't know. I've been told that I may have more problems with the pea gravel than with the sand. Their natural environment is smooth sand, the finer the better.

But they are staying in the bare bottom tank until their barbels have grown back. It's worth pointing out that not all of them have abraded barbels. One of them has more or less normal looking barbels.

I appreciate your time for the post. You've made some excellent points and you've strengthened my resolve to remove the silica sand.

Cheers.

 

[Cory_Dad]

Sorry to hear about your issues with these little guys. I have long been trying to find some here (Australia) with no luck, as I have long loved the look of them. Actually came across this site when doing a bit of Cory research today

I went and looked them up in a text and got the preferred tank specs for them

pH - 6-7
Temp 21-24C

I dont know how often you are changing the water but they are very sensitive to nitrates (as I think was mentioned) so changes once a day or every 2 days could be very useful in keeping these.

The text also mentions a mild current should be provided. Don't know if you have tried this or how easy it would be to create something like this, having never done it myself for any of the species I keep but if it is not hard to do something like this, can’t hurt to try.

-Ross

Hi Azarak.

I agree with the temp range but I've seen documentation that states a pH range of 6 - 8 and 5 - 7.5. As you've probably noted, I'm trying to get as close to neutral as I can. Our water here in the Toronto area is normally 7.8.

I do a 25% water change each week on all my tanks.

Readings are a constant 0,0,0 so the water is pretty clean. All the tanks are planted as well which helps to keep the NO3 at 0.

They did have a current in the 25. The bubble curtain air stone was in there although it was attached to the side of the tank. They like it much better in the middle it seems. I also have an Eheim 2215 (overkill) plus an Aquaclear 50 (overkill) for the 25 and there is a current. But I think because the 25 is 16 inches tall the current at the bottom is diminished. That and because of all of the plants. If I do decide to put them back in I think I'll add a power head at the mid to lower level. That would also help keep the sand clean.

I've also read that their natural habitat is fine smooth grained sand, no submerged plants, and white water. They might be happier in a 20 gallon long tank with just sand and some rocks for cover and very few or no plants.

Who know...

But thanks for taking the time to post in this thread.

Cheers.