Starting A New Tank, Some Advice Please!

[drain_bamaged]

Hello

Firstly, I hope this is the right forum to post in, im a newby! Admin- if its not, please feel free to move the thread

This is the first tank I am setting up and want to (understandly!) get it right...very quickly!

So I brought a 25L/ 5.5. gallon tank . I have followed all the instructions I can find both on the interwebs and in the box, to help speed up the maturing process. I have washed the tank (in just plain water to avoid any residue from cleaning agents), washed the gravel untill the water ran clear (although this was 'pre cleaned already) and added the fliter/heater/media (although this probably sounds silly, they are running 24/7) . A very kind local aquarium gave me some mature water (but couldnt give me any mature media), and I have also added a 2 different biologial booster syrups (which came with the tank)- one which is effective against the harshness of tap water, and another to add and quickly establish positive living organisms. What I would like to know is if there anything else I can do to establish a positive environment before adding any fish? I havent tested the water yet because I havent had time to get the kits, plus the tank has only been set up for around a day and a half!

I am going to get some neon tetras, and I was also looking at an African Dwarf Frog...can someone tell me if these are compatiable in a tank of this size? I know the frogs can grow up to 1.5 inches. Also what other friendly fish/animals can be added?

Thanks for your help!

Darren

 

[gaz gun man]

Hello mate, welcome to the forum

first, well done and congratulations for seeking advice before adding fish - Alot of people do it the other way around, and experience the inevitable problems a new tank goes through.

Have a read through the fishless cycling post here
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264[/URL]

It'll tell you all that you need to know to get your tank ready for fish. I followed it myself, along with countless other newbies so it really does work!


Regarding your tank at the minute, sounds like you've set it up correctly so far, the 2 different biologial booster syrups that you have - one of them will be water conditioner, the other will be 'cycle' (the one that is supposed to get a bioload going)
Keep the water conditioner - you'll need to add it every time you do a water change. Bin the bottle of cycle - it dosent work.

You'll need to buy a bottle of household Ammonia and a water test kit (make sure its a liquid one) and the link above will tell you in detail what to do with them.

Lastly - with fish - I dont know about frogs but neons are sensitive fish and require a stable, mature set up so not ideal for new set-ups. But dont worry, you will have plently of time to research different fish whilst you cycle

HTH for now

 

[arobinson1984]

Firstly the booster things you added are useless. The only thing you need to add to the water is a dechlorinator to neutralise any chlorine and chloramine in the water.

Secondly, the mature water wouldn't have done any good because the bacteria that is required in a tank is pretty much all in the filter media, under 1% is actually in the water, decorations etc.

You will need a good liquid based testing kit, preferable the API freshwater master kit is highly regarded.

You will need to read up on cycling, I would certainly recommend fishless cycling in such a small tank, you have very little room for error.

Have a read of this link: Fishless Cycling

Putting all that to one side now, I wouldn't recommend neons or african dwarf frogs for a newly established tank. Neons need a mature tank that is over 6 months old as they are very sensitive to fluctuating water conditions which are present in new tanks, also dwarf frogs are also sensitive, especially to chlorine in the water so a double dose of dechlorinator would be recommended for frogs.

Hope this helps a little, any more questions doesn't hesitate to ask as there are many helpful people on this forum.

Andy

 

[drain_bamaged]

Guys, thanks you both for your help

I am in the process of trying to get hold of some mature media to help cultivate the necessary bactaria that I need. I have read the fishless cycle, but can you tell me (roughly) how long it will take? I know that each tank will be different.

Its looking likely that I will have to wait longer then the week the shop assistant told me it would take to set the tank up ready for some tetras

I will hold off on the frogs until the tank is a little more mature...I just wanted something different and cool in there!!

 

[-SPB-]

If you take a look at this thread, there is a list of members willing to donate media here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=150631

 

[Miss Wiggle]

roughly 4-6 weeks to cycle a tank, if you get a media donation it is very varied but it can cycle the tank instantly if you get enough, if not it'll probably reduce it to a couple of weeks.

 

[arobinson1984]

It normally takes around 6-8 weeks but if you manage to get some mature media, you would probably bring the time scale down to more like 4 weeks. Alot of people do fish in cycles, but the prob you would have is because the tank is small, any amounts of ammonia created by fish would make you ammonia levels rocket so I could only recommend fishless cycling for a tank that small.

To be honest, having kept both before, you'd be better of with the frogs before the neons. Neither are particularly good for newly established tanks but if you are set on them being the ones you want, the frogs would be better than the neons because if you add neons before 6 months, you may get lucky but you could pretty much guarantee you would lose some.

Plus frogs are so much more fun to watch!

Andy

 

[drain_bamaged]

I am trying to get hold of some mature media... I did see that list but the person near me has been inactive since the start of the month...still I'll drop them a line anyway! So I was looking at the solution packet which says it's effective for tap water. Then noticed it said "will nutralise chloromines" is this is the same as chlorine?! Please tell me it is or I have wasted the better part of two days trying to set my tank up and it would have been a waste of time!! I live in Mitcham which is on the London/Surrey border! Thanks for your help!

 

[timoregan79]

What is the solution called

 

[drain_bamaged]

It's called "Acti" and the packet says "ActiClean- water conditioner for tap water"

 

[timoregan79]

Never heard of that one.
I use the tetra aquasafe and have found it quite good. It gets rid of you chlorine/chloramines and heavy metals.
I also tried a few other types and did not find them as good.
What ever conditioner you decide to use just make sure that it gets rid of all 3. If it does it will state it on the bottle.

 

[drain_bamaged]

Well, I have brought the packet to work and will take it into a LFS to see if they can shed some light! I was talking to my boss about RO water...is this a good idea? I suppose having sterile water, and then adding good bacteria from old media is a good way to help cut down on possibility of conflict or crisis??!! He said he maybe able to give me some mature media, but before he does, I am contemplating just throwing out the water I have been cycling for 48 hours and buying some RO instead. Can anyone advise if this is a good idea!??

Thanks

Darren

 

[arobinson1984]

RO water is only really beneficial is you have sensitive fish such as discus. For a general tank you should use normal water.

By the sounds of it that water condition would be fine but I've never heard of that one before. I use nutrafin aqua plus which is a good water conditioner and can be found all over the place. Its certainly available at both pets at home and on ebay. There are many different water conditioners, stick with a well know brand such as nutrafin, API, seachem and you'd be fine.

Have you read up on the fishless cycling? you will need some pure ammonia which is available from homebase or some of the larger boots stores.

Andy

 

[Miss Wiggle]

you should never use pure RO, fish get some vitamins and minerals from their food but also absorb some through the water around them, when you use RO it is basically pure H2O (or as close as you will get without a science lab) which then deprives the fish of what they need. It's OK to use now and again in an emergency but think of it like only ever feeding your child on McDonalds - it's OK once in a while but they won't get the all round nutrition that they need and eventually their health will suffer.

People that do use RO will re-mineralise it by putting additives into the water before they use it, RO is expensive to use full time, bad for the environment as it wastes a huge amount of water in the production of it and even more expensive because you have to add back half the stuff that you've taken out. Unless you have a specific need such as poor water in your area then I would strgonly advise against it.

Also I'm not sure what the impact would be when you're cycling as you are trying to grow your bacteria from somewhere, it starts out with minute quantities in the tap water that you use to set up the tank the first time. If you've nuked everything out of that initial water then you could have taken out the little bit of bacteria that you actually needed and as such stop the tank from cycling.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I would suspect at least two very negative things about RO water (if all RO water were used) use during fishless cycling. The first one would indeed be as MW points out, that some of the very few "seed" bacterial cells might be filtered out, slowing even further the startup of the process. Secondly, it is a known thing that the two species of bacteria we're trying to grow need calcium to build some of the structural portions of their cells and the calcium in "hard" water is where they get this, so getting all the minerals out would be a bad thing relative to an optimal environment for growing bacteria!

~~waterdrop~~