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Starting A New Tank, Some Advice Please!

Oh wow, now I really am confused! This all stems fro my initial concern that the solution I have used in the water clears Chlorimines (chlorine with ammonia) and not Chlorine...in which case I have just wasted two days trying to cycle the tank! I am trying to find a link to post here for you lovely people!

Ok, so I now realise that total RO water is bad!!! I know I need to get the water tested, im going to my lfs tonight so I will buy some testing kits.

Many thanks for your patience, and putting up with such a n00b!
 
http://www.aquashop-mesure.fr/acti-clean-p...56277502ab2a0ab

This is the the stuff. I have translated the page (well, yahoo has!) the page reads:

Acticlean is an effective biological product which helps to condition water and to remove toxins present in the water of your aquarium. This product makes it possible to support the development of the good bacteria necessary to the good being of your fresh water fish. Moreover, it gets beautiful color with your fish and improves their general health. This product neutralizes the harmful micro-organisms with the good being of your fish. Acticlean is essential in the new installations in transport of fish and during great water change.


What this description does not tell you is what is on the back of the packet, it says "quote" With its double blocking agent, it neutralises adverse substances, removes chloromines and... neutralises the waste products of Micro organisms"

Hope this helps!
 
I'd be very, very surprised if it removed chloramine and not chlorine.
 
Ah brilliant, I will take a look at that.

Funnily enough I spoke to an LFS this afternoon (regarding this) and they said to use tetra safe start, and that I could add fish pretty much straight away (give or take a few days). I specifically asked if I could add Neon tetras, and they said yes. http://www.fishandfins.co.uk/tetra-aquarium-treatment.htm also says I can...so how good is this stuff? I know tetra is a big brand, but also that many of the users here do not like 'miracle in a bottle' type solution! but your opinions will be taken (greatfully!) on bored!

Cheers

Daz
 
we're always very skeptical of all the 'bacteria in a bottle' type products. They're a fantastic idea and we'd love it if they worked but bacteria is a living organism, it will not live indefinately in a bottle on a shelf in a fish shop.

There are some bacteria products which are kept refridgerated which slows down the life cycle of the bacteria, have some food in them and have a sell-by date. These ones have shown some sucess however even with this mitigation in place I'd say they are only sucessfull around 50% of the time.

I just do not trust there to be anything still alive in the bottle after a few months subjected to extremes of temperature while it is transported and stored in a warehouse then sat on the shelf in your lfs before you buy it.

If you already have some then dump the whole bottle in and start a normal fishless cycle adding ammonia, if it has worked then it will become apparent in a few days from your test results that the tank is cycled or it may just kick start the process. If it hasn't worked then at least you haven't risked the fish's health by putting them into an uncycled tank.

If you haven't bought any then I'd suggest you don't waste your money and just buy some ammonia and a test kit.

Often these quick fixes are very tempting to a beginner and it is certainly hard to know who to believe when you see so much conflicting info, especially when it comes from a wel known company such as tetra. If you want some more anecdotal evidence to help make up your mind try doing a search for tetra safestart and you'll turn up loads of form posts with people's personal experiences of the product and can make a more informed decision based on that.
 
Please dont listen to your lfs, most fish stores only look at fish keeping from a profit making point of view.

Neons shouldn't be in a tank less than 6 months old and they will no that. If you buy some, they die, you go back and buy more. The lfs is making money all the time!

Don't listen to what they said about the tetra safe start, its tosh! There isnt such thing as a 'miracle in a bottle' solution. There was only one product ever proven to work (cant remember the name of it) but it was withdrawn from sale a few years ago. You need to concentrate on performing a proper cycle and let nature take course rather than trying to botch the process with so called 'miracles'

Andy
 
Hi drain and welcome to TFF!

I took a look at the "Acti" info and like the others, I can't quite figure out what it is. It is most likely either a "conditioner" (the term we commonly use for products that remove chlorine/chloramine and sometimes do a few extra functions) OR its a "bacteria in a bottle" product (another product range confusing for beginners because these are "hopeful" products (even in scientific circles), but are currently used "hopefully" in the "snake oil" sense on unsuspecting beginners, and in the final analysis, at least currently, are generally just very disappointing products per the reporting of our many members here on TFF.) OR, the "Acti" product is trying to be both of the previously mentioned type of products.

To my mind (unless there is a serious expense concern here), all of this is just a sideshow that is slowing you down from getting on with the lengthy process you are still going to need to go through before you have a biofilter capable of supporting fish and can get on with having fish and enjoying them.

Conditioners are, at the core, a pretty simple thing. There's a chemical that's cheap. It instantly deals with both chlorine and chloramine. Virtually all these manufacturers buy this chemical, put it in their variously colored and labled bottles, diluting it down by various amounts, and sell it at great profit in all the LFSs. For beginners, the info on conditioning can be a bit confusing if you search here on TFF because you will run across plenty of comments from experienced fishkeepers that they don't even bother to use conditioner! My advice is to keep in mind that there's a good chance that these fishkeepers are discussing what the do on large established fishtanks that have huge established biofilters and where they are often doing relatively smaller percentage water changes.

So for the beginner its probably prudent to follow the advice (offered by plenty of other experienced aquarists here) that they should get in the habit of using a good conditioner product, especially during the first six months or so, when their biofilter is still getting established. In fact its even recommended that one dose the conditioner at 1.5x or even 2x the recommended amount as given in the product instructions. My advice is not to go over a 2x double dosing though.

Now since the widely available chemical is so common and the process is so simple (since you just pour the right amount in to your tap water bucket or dose your tank for the amount the tank holds) there are many posts that just say more or less to get any conditioner and use it. For the most part this is true, but since we've got in to this discussion we might as well mention some detailed distinctions.

My own favorite conditioners to recommend to beginners are Seachem Prime and perhaps Amquel+, because they do a couple of things just right for the fishless cycling and the new fragile aquarium. Not only do they handle the chlorine or chloramine, they also are good at neutralizing any excess ammonia, making it safe for fish but still leaving it available as ammonium for the bacteria to eat and they are quite concentrated so that a bottle goes a long way.

Once one gets through the startup year or so, there are other conditioners that do interesting extra things that one might want to consider and ultimately, once one has very robust and established biofitlers, one might want to just consider getting a good pond conditioner so that the price is cut to the minimum.

As an example of the extra details, here, for instance is a nice little writeup by another person that I happened across just while looking up a product for this post:
Conditioner Article

Now that's not something I've used as a source before but you can see in the introductory paragraphs and some of the product descriptions, the same stuff I'm talking about up above. Anyway, for a small 5g aquarium, I'd get a small bottle of Prime and be done with it for a while!

Meanwhile, the other top priority things to be getting on with will be to search for a good testing kit, something like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit that most of us use. That's more or less essential to getting started in a good way and to help in your learning. And the search for the right kind of pure household ammonia that doesn't have dyes, fragrances or surfactants in it should get going too, as that can sometimes be difficult! All this and the reading too! Lots of homework!

~~waterdrop~~ :lol: :)
 
woo! I have just taken a sample of water to the lfs for testing. They couldnt find any trace of Chlorine wooo! I told them that I have been cycling for two days, and they also tested for Nitrite, which came out as having a 0.25 mg/l reading- the LFS didnt test for ammonia. This leads me to believe that those two packets of solution (see earlier post) actually worked! they also advised me not add anything as I seem to be doing pretty well already- but after reading the fishless cycling guide, I am tempted to add a few flakes of fish food...is this a good idea?

Cheers

Dx
 
One thought has just occured to me, I thought you couldnt get nitrate/nitrite without ammounia being present? so where would this ammonia have come from? Chlorine in the water? lol..or the waste from that bacteria? hmmm any thoughts?
 
wayhey, the third post by me in a row :D

I have just tested for Ammonia, and I do have some and it is somewhere between 0.0 mg/l and 0.1mg/l :D
 
I'd be very sceptical that even if the product you added did work, that you are seeing a nitrIte reading that quickly. It can normally take around 10-16 days before your filter starts to process ammonia to nitrIte.

Personally I wouldn't risk using any chemicals in the tank (except ammonia for proper fishless cycling). I think the best and safest way is natures way.

Andy
 
what i usually suggest when people have tried a bacteria supplement product and think it may have worked is to test it by simulating adding some fish. You do this by adding your 5ppm of ammonia exactly the same as you would for a fishless cycle. If the bacteria in a bottle has worked then your test results will quickly demonstrate this and you then have it completely confirmed that you are adding fish to a safe environment. If it hasn't worked then likewise your results will show this and you can move on to a standard fishless cycle which although it will take a few weeks longer will give the same outcome of a certified safe environment.
 
Thanks for the tip MW. I have had some trouble getting hold of pure ammonia (i have tried boots, Robert Dyas and a few other pet stores), so for the moment I am adding just a few fish flakes to the water. I will try and test the water tonight, but i will be a busy boy going to the gym and then watching the football, so this may have to wait until tomorrow. I suspect, however, that these are just strong initial results!
 

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