So What Am I Lacking Here?

[watertown28]

Alright soooollldddd! I just went to the hardware store and picked up a new shop light fixture. Now I spent a little more on this one because in between talking to you and reading, I saw that sometimes you lose efficiency the way the light fixture is shaped. So after reading a bit I found one that there is only around 10% light loss ...it reflects at 90% efficiency.
Of course, I bought the 8k bulbs, put them in, hated the look really... kinda like a dull blue. Came up here and looked at your response.... and then was happy that I also bought 2 new 6500K lights.
 
IMO, it DOES look much brighter in there all the way down. Now the lights being brand new I am gonna give them a few hours to get fired up. Will take pics.
 
Now I am seeing some algae like the beard stuff ( dont know if I mentioned that ) in this tank.... I would almost assume that it might be due to the flux of CO2. From when I first saw it a few days ago, I moved my outlet pipe to point down more into the water, so there is like no agitation at all on the surface for the most part. Also got more flow around the plants doing this for its shooting water down along the whole length of the tank and back up. My main concern doing it this way was the fish being stressed due to the current, but I have holes all along the 42 or so inch pipe .... so the flow is not really "focused" in one area like it is with a HOB filter. So far the German blues seem alright along with the zebra loach..... the dinoes dont count because that is like play time to them swimming around in whatever current..... chasing each other.

 

[Byron]

They will likely take back the 8K tubes.  I get mine at Home Depot, and I know they will.
 
I suspect the algae is a form of black brush/beard algae, which in spite of the common name is a red algae.  All red and green algae "problems" in planted tanks is due solely to the balance of light intensity/duration and nutrients being off.  Flow is not a direct factor, though many will say it is.  Once you get things balanced, it will be relatively simple to deal with algae.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

They will likely take back the 8K tubes.  I get mine at Home Depot, and I know they will.
 
I suspect the algae is a form of black brush/beard algae, which in spite of the common name is a red algae.  All red and green algae "problems" in planted tanks is due solely to the balance of light intensity/duration and nutrients being off.  Flow is not a direct factor, though many will say it is.  Once you get things balanced, it will be relatively simple to deal with algae.
 
Byron.

Dang this is a lot of learning and work... which is good, this is what people use as beer money, I do this instead.
 
Anyways, here is an updated pic of the tank now with the new lights going, and below that is a pic of the light I got. If this works well, I will put this on the rest of the tanks.... but I might just get another one of these for the 72 bow, which I have a corner shot of that tank ....
 

 

 
 
Now a corner shot of the 72 bow:
 

 

[Byron]

Looking much better, nice work.  As for that algae, yes, that looks like BBA to me.  It frequently appears in hidden places, also in my tanks on the filter intake and return tubes (dispelling the theory of low flow causing it).

 

[watertown28]

Looking much better, nice work.  As for that algae, yes, that looks like BBA to me.  It frequently appears in hidden places, also in my tanks on the filter intake and return tubes (dispelling the theory of low flow causing it).

LOL that i just one area. Its all out in the open too, plant leaves, driftwood ... filter intake.
 
I am hoping that the excel will help a bit . I been doing 1 cap full a day so far. Ill put a new lighting on this shortly hope tomorrow... Should I keep dosing frets along with the excel? I will be getting some of that flourish you recommended tomorrow in the mail...
Now as for the BBA here, should I leave it or clean it off? If clean it off do I need to uproot every plant and clean it that way?

 

[watertown28]

Alrighty got my stuff! First does of that flourish gone in, and new root tabs planted next to the roots of the swords ( yes I have added a few more lol Argentine and compacta )... cant wait cant wait!
 
IMO, even after a day with the lights the wisteria at least seems to be clearing up real good and getting good color all the way down. I hope I have saved my first amazon though... I love the big leaves on this and my zebra loach loves to "Lay" in it. I picked up another pair of 6500 bulbs at walmart today, I had to do some food shopping so I will stop and menards tomorrow after work and pick up another one of those fixtures I got.

 

[watertown28]

Alright bud, After a few days I will post pics of the amazon ... and the other root plant that I have no clue on what it is tomorrow after work ( these 6 day work weeks getting old but hobby money...) maybe you will be able to tell what my amazon is lacking... though I have a good idea, but confirmation would be great.

 

[Byron]

Alright bud, After a few days I will post pics of the amazon ... and the other root plant that I have no clue on what it is tomorrow after work ( these 6 day work weeks getting old but hobby money...) maybe you will be able to tell what my amazon is lacking... though I have a good idea, but confirmation would be great.

 
Identifying exact nutrient deficiencies is not easy, as so many have the same appearance.  But there are some easier to spot.  This is why I prefer using comprehensive supplements, like the Flourish Comprehensive you now have; everything is included, in rough proportions, so you stand a better chance of providing nutrients the plants can use.  Generally, in the six years I have been using the Flourish line (some, not all of them) I have found plant problems to be less related to nutrients than other factors, and my nutrient dosing is more limited by algae than the plants.
 
Another point to remember is that it takes time for changes in nutrients or environmental conditions to become noticeable in plants.  Whenever I change my routine dosing ferts, I always do so for at least three weeks before assuming it isn't working.  Different plant species may respond sooner or later, but generally it takes a couple weeks to see results.  Now, in your case you have significantly improved/altered the light, and nutrients, but some of the improvement may also just be the plants finally settling down.
 
I have recently experimented with dosing more often with less per dose during the week, rather than all at once as I had been doing previously.  I won't go into the complicated fish-related reasons I have done this, but after two or maybe three weeks now, I am seeing an improvement in the floating plants in two tanks.  Too early to say if this is directly related, but it may be.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

I see what your saying on this. When I try to see what I could find myself for what is missing, a lot of times it seems to be a NO3 deficiency, yet when I test my water, I see that I need to do a massive WC because my NO3 seems to be off the charts.... 40-180.... the 72 bow the water was really dark red for the reading via the API test kit.
 
Needless to say, I did a good amount of WC last night.about 70 gallons on each tank.... that is counting in the sump water, so the sump being 40 gallons plus the 75 tank gallons... thats a huge amount. Now I did not change it all at once, did a total drain pretty much of the sump, filled with water, treated with prime... them ran it for about an hour, drained it again....then filled of course, primed....but....
When I added the excel again, I only did the normal dose. I dont understand if I could do the starter dose like you do when you first start using. The reason I did not do this is because it was not all the water at once, but half of a change first, circulated, and then another half of the WC... so I was under the assumption that there would still be traces of the excel still in the water.
 
Wanted to play it safe than sorry cuz I did not want to wipe the fish stock. IMO, I think I am feeding way too much maybe, or my filters malfunction a bit for there was tons of dirty stuff on the bottom of the sump again. Good thing about sumps is that you seem to add tons of water volume, but that also made me lazy so I need to keep up on cleaning the sump out weekly.

 

[watertown28]

Alright... here is the pics.
 
Now, seems to be the start of the bearded garbage in the 75 gallon tank, which I plan on dosing it with excel. I am sure I have plenty of wiggle room on it. I plan on doing about 15ml worth of dosing per tank, today being the first one. I will be keeping an eye on the livestock of course, and I dont think I have anything that would react negatively with the higher dose. I learned the active ingredient seems to be something they use in the medical profession for sanitation which is extreamly interesting... the ingredient could actually be a fungicide of sorts. I am already starting to see some the the algae turning whiteish in the 72 bow.... a little is starting to float around in the tank....I might be seeing a faster response to it in the 72 because there is so much of it in the tank lol.
 
At least to my credit, we all now know I can grow algae.
 
One more thing though, I winter proofed the 72 bow. Its kinda by a window, though not really directly by it, about 6 feet over and about 3 feet below. When I winter proof due it being a basement, I use the bubble wrap you use for heating ducts and stuff, holds temps much better in a colder basement when its winter here so the heaters are not overly taxed.
 

 
And the scary picture full view of the 72 bow:
 

 
I recently set up another planted tank with a few plants a week and a half ago. This one atm is doing well. I have the proper lights right off and the ferts too. This one is running crystal clear so far ( knock on wood ).

 

[Byron]

I would reduce the light duration on the 72.  There are not many plants to utilize it, with the nutrients, and algae will take advantage.  As it seems to have done with a vengeance.
 
I'll just offer my view on Excel, which I accept some others do not share, fine.  The ingredient along with water is glutaraldehyde, to which Seachem give another name but the safety data sheet shows it is the same thing.  This is also the ingredient in API's CO2 Booster.  This toxic disinfectant is indeed used in hospitals to sterilize medical instruments; it is also in embalming fluid and antifreeze, and is used to disinfect ship's ballasts when travelling between oceans to avoid carrying bacteria.  I simply won't put this stuff in a tank with fish, regardless of how "safe" some think it is.  Any chemical added to a fish tank's water does get into the fish's bloodstream, which is why the aquatic environment is so critical to fish, much different from that of land animals.  I can see no benefit to this, even if the "safety" is "proven," which I seriously question.  Excel will kill some plants, such as Valsneria, even when used according to the instructions.  If overdosed, it can kill plants, fish and bacteria.  The fact is kills some algae is a cause for concern.  Any chemical substance that enters the fish's bloodstream may have effects we cannot begin to understand, and I have not yet come across any marine biologist or microbiologist who endorses this chemical.  Up to you.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

I would reduce the light duration on the 72.  There are not many plants to utilize it, with the nutrients, and algae will take advantage.  As it seems to have done with a vengeance.
 
I'll just offer my view on Excel, which I accept some others do not share, fine.  The ingredient along with water is glutaraldehyde, to which Seachem give another name but the safety data sheet shows it is the same thing.  This is also the ingredient in API's CO2 Booster.  This toxic disinfectant is indeed used in hospitals to sterilize medical instruments; it is also in embalming fluid and antifreeze, and is used to disinfect ship's ballasts when travelling between oceans to avoid carrying bacteria.  I simply won't put this stuff in a tank with fish, regardless of how "safe" some think it is.  Any chemical added to a fish tank's water does get into the fish's bloodstream, which is why the aquatic environment is so critical to fish, much different from that of land animals.  I can see no benefit to this, even if the "safety" is "proven," which I seriously question.  Excel will kill some plants, such as Valsneria, even when used according to the instructions.  If overdosed, it can kill plants, fish and bacteria.  The fact is kills some algae is a cause for concern.  Any chemical substance that enters the fish's bloodstream may have effects we cannot begin to understand, and I have not yet come across any marine biologist or microbiologist who endorses this chemical.  Up to you.
 
Byron.

Yeah I know what your saying on this. Its each to their own on the seachem excel .
 
Anywho, what time limit should I put on the lights? I got em around 9 hours, you think I should cut them back to 6?
 
BTW, my ram pair in the 75 gallon dug a hole in the sand, I think they are getting ready to mate... which is stinking awesome because to me seeing fish breed means the setup is good for them.
Next set of pics from that tank I will take one of the hole, and its funny cuz how you told me about that wisteria roots being all over hanging around like they were in there.... they did the nest rather close to it.
 
Now.... with that said, I am sure the zebra loaches are waiting for a tasty dinner of fish eggs... both species of the fish are semi aggressive so... wonder if I need to let nature take it course here.
 
I never thought I would say this, but I kinda wish that I had saved a few ramshorn snails and put em into a spare 30 gallon I have, that would be a nice meaty meal for the loaches, 2 corners of the tank are littered with empty snail shells they made quick work of.... 5 of them would keep any kind of snail put into that tank in check.

 

[Byron]

Anywho, what time limit should I put on the lights? I got em around 9 hours, you think I should cut them back to 6?
 

 
I would reduce by an hour, give it a few weeks, then another hour if algae is still out of control.  I keep saying it, but the balance is the thing and once you find it you will be fine.

 

[watertown28]

 

Anywho, what time limit should I put on the lights? I got em around 9 hours, you think I should cut them back to 6?
 

 
I would reduce by an hour, give it a few weeks, then another hour if algae is still out of control.  I keep saying it, but the balance is the thing and once you find it you will be fine.
 

Cool.
 
BTW Byron, I have to ask this though on the amazon sword though. I read in a few places that you are not to hand clean the algae or whatever from the sword plants because it does something to the tissue of the plant and more or less ruins that leaf. Is this true? The reason I ask is because I have done this already before hand and then saw this, and I have not seen any improvement at all from the plant. In fact, that other plant next to it has sprung a new leaf, where as the amazon has not even done so.
What I will do though is trim back a few more of the dying leaves on the plant... maybe that will spur something.  Over all the plant is looking in bad shape as it is, and at most it will be a trim of maybe one or two leaves max... just kinda wondering. I Will really try to get a decent pic of that plant for you.
 
Edit here it is.
Main thing is the dark green veins on some of the leaves, and then some holes. I have a few dead or close to brown that I want to trim off, but like some input on the other things that might be lacking here. I have root tabs on each side of the plant... I wonder if I should get some seachem trace for right now to add to the column, or need something else.

 

[Byron]

On the sword plant question.  Difficult algae such as black brush (there is more than one type of this algae) is impossible to remove from plant leaves without literally removing most of the leaf in the process.  Some types of algae, such as diatoms, can easily be wiped off with your fingers, but not brush.  So if it comes off with your fingers (finger itself, not the nail) fine, but if not, forget it.
 
Individual leaves will not recover from any nutrient deficiency, generally speaking.  As with the algae issue, the aim is to have new growth unaffected.  Once you seed this, you know you are likely on the right track.  So this is why you won't see improvement on leaves you may have cleaned; the algae has already done the damage.
 
Removing the older leaves that are yellowing/spotting/veining/dying or are covered in brush algae can be done once you have new growth.  How much you do this is up to you.  Some nutrients are what we term mobile, because the plant can move them from one older leaf to the new leaves.  Provided the stem of the plant where is joins the crown is still whole, nutrients can still travel up and down, so leaving the "dying" leaf may have a value.  I tend to remove dying leaves once the others are doing well, but the point here is that you needn't be quick to do so.  However, if the leaf stem at the crown has browned and become soft, nothing is travelling up or down so that leaf might as well be removed.
 
Again, we can't move too fast with changes, the plant has to have time to adjust.  Root tabs improve plant growth with swords, but I have never seen this "as it happens," only noticed after several weeks that the plants seem stronger.  I at this point would not bother with additional liquid fertilizers beyond the Flourish Comprehensive.  It has all necessary nutrients (except oxygen, hydrogen and carbon which all come from elsewhere) and getting the balance with the light sorted out is the task.