So What Am I Lacking Here?

[Byron]

Yes, exactly (on the ram issue).

 

[watertown28]

Hrm too late at night right now and finally gonna get some normal hours for once ... I noticed that I may be seeing some holes in my leaves in the first 75 gallon ( for future reference the second tank that we started talking about later on I will just state it as a 72 bow).... this was noticed on the java fern of all places, and also seems like the sword has an assortment of issues on rather close inspection.
 
Where can I get dry ferts for the fish tank so I can mix my own?

 

[Byron]

Other members will be able to hlep you with dry ferts.  I know some here use them (I don't, yet, maybe...).  
 
The Java Fern holes is most likely nutrient deficiency.  I see this on the smallish Java Fern in my 20g that is used to quarantine new fish acquisitions, so it sits minus any fish for months sometimes.  I do add Flourish Comp once weekly, but the lack of fish obviously reduces nutrients, probably ammonia (nitrogen) and CO2 the most, hence the holes.  The JF plants in two other tanks are solid, and one JF moved from this QT to another tank grew new fronds without the holes.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

Well I am almost to think that it might be due to the fish IMO... I do not see any yellowing around the holes at all.
 
BTW, another WC on sunday... dont know if I mentioned that... trying a new plant food too, this is being high in potassium with a trace of iron....with that said seeing the yellowing and possible holes in leaves, that almost makes me wonder if my potassium was lacking.
 
I will give it another day, but the wisteria being the fast responder it is, seems to really have "greened" up much with this food after a few days.
 
I would love it if someone came here with dry ferts exp....for then I can make a mix myself which most likely will be 10x cheaper doing seeing I plan on making 6 tanks which are 55g or more all planted and that would eat up the food like they are a newborn.

 

[watertown28]

Alright, you should be happy... Your hard work and talking me though this has seemed to helped a ton.
 
Last:
 

 
 
Current:
 

 
 
Now I just did a half dose of the latest ferts I got with the posh and iron, and then a half does of the aquon (sp) with the more of the micros in it. The posh should be about the same and iron, I was more or less after the micros that are in the second one, but fear of OD on the iron.

 

[Byron]

It takes time and patience...
 
And yes, watch the iron.  I add iron (on its own) in addition to other preparations but only in a couple tanks, and sparingly.  Iron is included in the basic ferts like Aqueon, and it will be entering in fish food.  May be in the water too.  Iron is important but it is still only one of the micronutrients.  An excess of iron can cause plants to shut down uptake of some other nutrients, and I have brought on brush algae simply with additional iron.
 
It takes practice but the plant's response is the best guide to what may be needed.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

It takes time and patience...
 
And yes, watch the iron.  I add iron (on its own) in addition to other preparations but only in a couple tanks, and sparingly.  Iron is included in the basic ferts like Aqueon, and it will be entering in fish food.  May be in the water too.  Iron is important but it is still only one of the micronutrients.  An excess of iron can cause plants to shut down uptake of some other nutrients, and I have brought on brush algae simply with additional iron.
 
It takes practice but the plant's response is the best guide to what may be needed.
 
Byron.

Speaking of the brush brown stuff, sadly, I am still fighting with my other 72 bow on this. Its now on the driftwood, and I also got that green stuff on the glass again.
 
I have always thought that that brown stuff is brought on by not so clean conditions... as in very dirty filter media.
 
If that is the case, I had a oppsy on that tank with the sump. I changed out the old pad which more or less was caked full of garbage, a lot of which escaped and settled on the bottom of the sump. I have been meaning to clean it, and if this can contribute to this brown stringy stuff, I will chance a premature WC and clean that bottom up right quick.
 

 

 

 

[Byron]

I've never run a sump filter, but what you suggest seems likely,

 

[watertown28]

I've never run a sump filter, but what you suggest seems likely,

Well what I am getting at is if it is typical for even having dirty padding causing a beard algae problem.... as in way too many NO3 being in the water causing a abundance of it being used for the algae.

 

[watertown28]

Well I have done some more reading on this, and it does seem like I am still under water on the amount of energy needed on this... think I will be going to get a few 55 w CFLs and seeing how we do.

 

[Byron]

Well I have done some more reading on this, and it does seem like I am still under water on the amount of energy needed on this... think I will be going to get a few 55 w CFLs and seeing how we do.

 
Given the cost of running all these, you might want to look into a shop fixture with dual 48-inch T8 tubes.  For less than $20 (likely even less in the US) you can get a basic shop light that holds two T8 fluorescent tubes.  You should be able to find one that fits the housing you now have.  For tubes you can use the inexpensive Phillips 6500K and 5000K tubes (this combination is particularly effective, I have it over my three largest tanks, a 70g, 90g and 115g).  This will be a total of 64 watts of energy, and provide adequate if not superior lighting.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

 

Well I have done some more reading on this, and it does seem like I am still under water on the amount of energy needed on this... think I will be going to get a few 55 w CFLs and seeing how we do.

 
Given the cost of running all these, you might want to look into a shop fixture with dual 48-inch T8 tubes.  For less than $20 (likely even less in the US) you can get a basic shop light that holds two T8 fluorescent tubes.  You should be able to find one that fits the housing you now have.  For tubes you can use the inexpensive Phillips 6500K and 5000K tubes (this combination is particularly effective, I have it over my three largest tanks, a 70g, 90g and 115g).  This will be a total of 64 watts of energy, and provide adequate if not superior lighting.
 
Byron.
 

Yeah see I was using the shop lights but never had any real sucess with them.
I guess when I read some more I saw that the white backing on them causes the light to more or less be less effective. I need to dig a bit to find a cure for that. From what I read the twin 6500K t8s should be more than enough for low light plants, Though I am sure I could figure out a way to get 4 bulb setup if needed.
 
Yeah, we are getting into the SHO CFLs and for the price, I dont know. SHO CFls seem to be around 9 bucks each. I guess the biggest issue is the light penetration to the bottom of the tank, which the hood covers lose from what I understand around 20% and that is even before it hits the water. Now its lower for me because I use my own covers that I make, Acrylic...which still lose around 10% before hitting the surface. Factor in water stains, algae... yeah you can lose a lot out of it just before it even hits the water.
 
Now, I have been adding some excel to the water now. Second does today in the 75 gallon. 5ml is being added right now. Also places a API root tab next to the Amazon ... I added another inch of sand around that and the other plant next to it. Put the tab in really close to the root of the sword, and lone behold, no cloudy water. So that leads me to think the sand was not deep enough and the tab leeched into the water column. Did a dose of 5ml of the excel on the 72 bow also. I think I am going to keep doing it every other day on the planted tanks. Not as good as pressurized CO2, but sufficient. Also adding the plant food too, lower doseages like 10ml every other day also, should work out to what I would do in one dose for the whole week.
I do have some flourish on the way. Here on wed.
 
I am also going to start doing the DIY root tabs. Using Dynamite Select all purpose plant food inside some tabs that I can make myself. Very common to use this brand and another for the tabs and works wonders.

 

[Byron]

Yeah see I was using the shop lights but never had any real sucess with them.
I guess when I read some more I saw that the white backing on them causes the light to more or less be less effective. I need to dig a bit to find a cure for that. From what I read the twin 6500K t8s should be more than enough for low light plants, Though I am sure I could figure out a way to get 4 bulb setup if needed.
 

 
Four tubes would give you algae soup.  I have had two tubes over my 4-foot 70g and 4-foot 90g, and my 5-foot 115g, since I got the tanks in the mid 1990's.  I have to watch the duration to keep algae at bay from the lighting.  This is more than adequate for low and moderate light requiring plants.  I don't think I've added photos in this thread, so here is the 70g and 90g.  The reflector over the 70g is better (it is original), whereas that over the 90g is the shop light which is just white.  This is not going to make any difference when we are considering such generalities.  When you get into high-tech you have a different story.
 
The balance between light intensity and nutrients is the key factor.  My two 10w Daylight CFL bulbs over the 10g and 20g give me roughly the same light intensity over those tanks as I have relatively speaking over the larger tanks with the dual T8 tubes.  I would need a bank of CFL bulbs to achieve this over the larger tanks, and I suspect this is the initial issue here.  IF you still have the shop fixture, it may be worth re-installing it.  You do need decent tubes, the 6500K should be fine, or the mix.

 

[watertown28]

Yeah the 15 dollar investment is not what I was worried about IMO. I can still get em no problem. Cheap enough really.
 
Now that your doing a very fine job and swaying me to go back to the standard strip lights again, I do have a question... I see the there are 8k bulbs where I live that are handy to buy....would that be a better option providing more of the colors the plants might need?

 

[Byron]

Yeah the 15 dollar investment is not what I was worried about IMO. I can still get em no problem. Cheap enough really.
 
Now that your doing a very fine job and swaying me to go back to the standard strip lights again, I do have a question... I see the there are 8k bulbs where I live that are handy to buy....would that be a better option providing more of the colors the plants might need?

 
No, probably not.  I'll explain.  First a note on Kelvin.  This is the measurement of colour temperature as we perceive it.  Light around 6000K [forgotten the actual number, it is just under 6000K if memory serves me] is the closest in colour rendition to the sun at mid-day.  Light with a lower K, say 4000K or 5000K, has more red in the colour mix, and less blue, giving a "warm" white.  Light with a higher K has more blue and less red, giving a "cool" white.  Tubes intended for reef tanks must be primarily blue, hence the actinic and others have very high K numbers, 11,000K and such.
 
Aquatic plants require red and blue light to drive photosynthesis.  This is why the so-called "plant" tubes and "aquarium" tubes frequently are primarily (if not exclusively) high in red and blue, giving a sort of purplish or sometimes goulish hue to the aquarium.  I have in the past used these lights for several years.  In addition to the odd colour hue (which I admit some aquarists like, but I do not because it is not "natural"), these tubes are for some reason much less intense, and algae is often a problem.  Controlled studies have proven that light strong in the red, blue and green areas promoted the best response in plants.  The tubes termed "Daylight" that have a Kelvin around 6000K to 7000K provide this.
 
Diana Walstad discusses this in her book, and surmises that this may be due partly to the increased intensity of the "daylight" tubes, but also may be due to the presence of high green.  Plant leaves reflect light according to their colour, so red leaf plants are reflecting more red light in order to appear red, and green leaf plants reflect green light in order to appear green, and so forth.  For this reason, many assumed that green light was not significant, and as it is not a driver of photosynthesis, this made sense.  But as the tests have shown, there must be more to this.  Diana also points out that the sun at mid-day when it is strongest on plants is high in the green as well as red and blue.  So all this seems to support the test results that plant response was strongest to light between 6000K and 7000K.  On single tube tanks, I always use a tube like the Life-Glo which is 6700K, or ZooMed's Ultra Sun which is 6500K.
 
With dual tube fixtures, one can expand from this without detriment to the plants, if not carried to excess.  I personally like the "warmth" the 5000K adds as this brings out the reds in plants and fish a bit more.  For several years I used a combo of one 6500K and one 9000K or one 10,000K on one tank.  The plants were fine, though I did notice algae was a bit more prevalent.  Since I have gone back to the 5000K/6500K combo, algae has been less of an issue.  Light that is too high in blue is more likely to promote algae.  Remember, the plants need blue but also red to photosynthesize, and if the red is insufficient in balance with the blue, the plants can only slow down, allowing an advantage to algae.  I've experimented enough with this to be certain of the results.
 
Byron.