So What Am I Lacking Here?

[watertown28]

On the sword plant question.  Difficult algae such as black brush (there is more than one type of this algae) is impossible to remove from plant leaves without literally removing most of the leaf in the process.  Some types of algae, such as diatoms, can easily be wiped off with your fingers, but not brush.  So if it comes off with your fingers (finger itself, not the nail) fine, but if not, forget it.
 
Individual leaves will not recover from any nutrient deficiency, generally speaking.  As with the algae issue, the aim is to have new growth unaffected.  Once you seed this, you know you are likely on the right track.  So this is why you won't see improvement on leaves you may have cleaned; the algae has already done the damage.
 
Removing the older leaves that are yellowing/spotting/veining/dying or are covered in brush algae can be done once you have new growth.  How much you do this is up to you.  Some nutrients are what we term mobile, because the plant can move them from one older leaf to the new leaves.  Provided the stem of the plant where is joins the crown is still whole, nutrients can still travel up and down, so leaving the "dying" leaf may have a value.  I tend to remove dying leaves once the others are doing well, but the point here is that you needn't be quick to do so.  However, if the leaf stem at the crown has browned and become soft, nothing is travelling up or down so that leaf might as well be removed.
 
Again, we can't move too fast with changes, the plant has to have time to adjust.  Root tabs improve plant growth with swords, but I have never seen this "as it happens," only noticed after several weeks that the plants seem stronger.  I at this point would not bother with additional liquid fertilizers beyond the Flourish Comprehensive.  It has all necessary nutrients (except oxygen, hydrogen and carbon which all come from elsewhere) and getting the balance with the light sorted out is the task.

Yeah that blackish algae on the 75 gallon seems to be done "spreading" so to say. Which is good. Its a shame the damaged leaves cant repair themselves.
 
Hey Byron, I was a looking for a fixture for lighting and came across this... seems to be just fine for LT for lighting nothing needed like co2 injections, which is another thing once I get good at this ( which more or less means keeping upkeep as a habit and all that fun stuff ).... now that I seem to have at least some success at plants.....
http/www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U0HMX1C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[Byron]

My experience with LED is limited to one foray, and it was disastrous.  So I will let members who may know this particular fixture comment.  If this were me, I would want to actually see it over an aquarium, and know more about the intensity, before buying it.  The LED I tried, which I bought online, was supposedly for planted tanks, but it was way too blue, and no where near intense enough, in spite of their claims.  After two weeks I sold it at a bit of a loss, but I was glad to get rid of it.

 

[watertown28]

My experience with LED is limited to one foray, and it was disastrous.  So I will let members who may know this particular fixture comment.  If this were me, I would want to actually see it over an aquarium, and know more about the intensity, before buying it.  The LED I tried, which I bought online, was supposedly for planted tanks, but it was way too blue, and no where near intense enough, in spite of their claims.  After two weeks I sold it at a bit of a loss, but I was glad to get rid of it.

Yeah I read where a lot of the LED light set ups are a hit or miss, mostly due to the poor quality of said fixtures.
 
O well, was just a though. I dont want to think that down the road if I do HT type of planted tanks that I would drop 130 bucks alone on the light fixture only to have it no better than a low tech fixture that I could have used at a fraction of the price.
 
In the process of insulating all my tanks and the sumps. I dont know if you ever ventured in this direction but this is a must I need to do because of the basement... old house to boot so its not insulated at all down there lol. This is the only drawback about it. I figure its getting around 55F in the basement in the dead of winter, glass holds no heat what so ever... I use this buble wrap type stuff you use on ducts and garage doors.... Im gonna have to buy some more rolls with the sumps and the added tanks, more so because I have sumps now.
 
That kind of leads me to the next question I may have because this stuff is reflective. Now that should intensify the light in the tank me thinks... I hope that is not a problem...

 

[Byron]

First comment is that I would never wrap an aquarium in anything that may reflect light or images.  This can be highly stressful for the fish.  Using dark blankets or anything that is dark would be fine, on the rear, underside and side panels.  Aside from this crucial aspect, yes, reflected light can easily cause algae if the result is more light than what balances the nutrients and the needs of the plants.  I have had terrible increases in brush algae during the summer simply due to the longer days allowing more light (even through permanently closed blinds) into the room.  I got around this with thick drapes plus the blinds.  My seven tanks are in a dedicated fish room, so covering windows is no difficulty.
 
A heater close to the tanks, or perhaps you can sort of build a room around the tanks so they are in a smaller enclosed space that a heater would keep at say 65 or 70F?  My "fish room" is an enclosed carport done by the previous owner.  No heat was vented into this space when the house was built obviously, so they added an electric baseboard heater with its own thermostat.  I keep it on 70F all winter, as without it the room would be 50F or lower, since this space is isolated from the rest of the house.  In summer I have the opposite problem--being on the SW corner, it receives direct sun all day, plus the west wall has glass block windows, and believe me, they really magnify the sun's heat.  I have them covered outside in summer.  It is best not to have the ambient room temperature more than about 10 degrees (F) below the tank set temperature, or the heaters in the tanks can work overtime and burn out or stick on.  Aquarium heaters are manufactured to operate in relatively temperate surroundings.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

First comment is that I would never wrap an aquarium in anything that may reflect light or images.  This can be highly stressful for the fish.  Using dark blankets or anything that is dark would be fine, on the rear, underside and side panels.  Aside from this crucial aspect, yes, reflected light can easily cause algae if the result is more light than what balances the nutrients and the needs of the plants.  I have had terrible increases in brush algae during the summer simply due to the longer days allowing more light (even through permanently closed blinds) into the room.  I got around this with thick drapes plus the blinds.  My seven tanks are in a dedicated fish room, so covering windows is no difficulty.
 
A heater close to the tanks, or perhaps you can sort of build a room around the tanks so they are in a smaller enclosed space that a heater would keep at say 65 or 70F?  My "fish room" is an enclosed carport done by the previous owner.  No heat was vented into this space when the house was built obviously, so they added an electric baseboard heater with its own thermostat.  I keep it on 70F all winter, as without it the room would be 50F or lower, since this space is isolated from the rest of the house.  In summer I have the opposite problem--being on the SW corner, it receives direct sun all day, plus the west wall has glass block windows, and believe me, they really magnify the sun's heat.  I have them covered outside in summer.  It is best not to have the ambient room temperature more than about 10 degrees (F) below the tank set temperature, or the heaters in the tanks can work overtime and burn out or stick on.  Aquarium heaters are manufactured to operate in relatively temperate surroundings.
 
Byron.

OO well now I think I need to get that pink board stuff then to insulate. I can still do the sumps then with the wrap but not the main tanks with lights on it lol. I could always paint it black too on the face into the tank
 
Above you can see on the 72 bow front what I had there... maybe that is why I am getting algae problems. Its been more or less a peminate fixture the last few years, never took it off the back. As for fish deaths, none really outside what I would call old age. I did have one loach die prematurely, but that was because it was looking for food and got sucked out via the intake, how it managed this is a mystery, but I have sense went with a new design to make sure that did not happen again.
 
As for enclosing ... yeah that wont happen costs are huge IMO to redo a full basement. What I could do is open the vents there and get some heat pumped into the basement and stuff like that.
 
Or another option is to get 3 or 4 heaters lower watts to do the work also. I should have that anyways. That is what sumps are for to get all that stuff out of the main tank.

 

[watertown28]

Well some good news, it seems like the algae is slowly but surely cleaning up. Back of tank is starting to show patches clearing up along with the driftwood that was caked with it. Seems like the treatment ( I know you dont support it ) and the cut down on the hours the lights are on is working.

 

[watertown28]

Okay so I went and cleaned it all off now. Good to go. I did not get all of it, but what I may do is pull out the really badly infested plants and set em up in a non fish tank and see what happens.
 
The 75 gallon starting to get a little black algae and the leaves on wisteria seems to have some on them too . I may just get some more low light fast growers I need to see what the pet store has.
 
The 55 is looking good. Nothing so far algae wise.
 

 
The 55 gallon... still early but 2 weeks still look pretty good.
 

 
I am testing this stuff to insulate the tank. The guppies dont seem to mind really, they dont care much about anything except chasing each other down.
 
I really wonder if its my lack of upkeep on this. I mean, the NO3 being higher side like 40+ I am sure did not help matters.

 

[watertown28]

Alright HUUUGGGEEEE WC just took place. I would say 70 ish gallons, I drained the sump AND instead of running the water after filling the sump, I took water right out of the display tank this time. Cleaned out all the fish food garbage left in the bottom of the sump for the most part, changed the filter floss.
Now the trick is, do I dare add the flourish again? Do I have it right in thinking that the algae benefits from the MACROS and not the micros correct?
O and I raised my lights also 4 inches off the top of the tank instead of right on it.

 

[Byron]

Alright HUUUGGGEEEE WC just took place. I would say 70 ish gallons, I drained the sump AND instead of running the water after filling the sump, I took water right out of the display tank this time. Cleaned out all the fish food garbage left in the bottom of the sump for the most part, changed the filter floss.
Now the trick is, do I dare add the flourish again? Do I have it right in thinking that the algae benefits from the MACROS and not the micros correct?
O and I raised my lights also 4 inches off the top of the tank instead of right on it.

 
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my knowledge of sumps is non-existent, just want to keep that in mind.  From what you have been describing throughout, I am getting the impression that this type of filtration may be high in organics.  Those with more experience may be able to comment either way.  Organics will support algae if the dissolved organics exceed what the plants can use.
 
Raising the lights will lessen the intensity, yes.  More of the light is going out to the sides rather than down into the water.
 
So to the question on algae and nutrients.  I have found that using two doses of Flourish Comprehensive definitely caused a sudden increase in a type of brush algae in one tank.  Once a week did not.  I did this test twice over several months, results identical.  Then I tested and discovered that using Flourish Trace once a week in addition to one dose of Flourish Comp did not affect algae, but the floating plants did seem better (which was the initial reason for two doses of FC).  So from all this, I would suggest that algae may have a greater need for the macros, and keeping those minimal (sufficient for the plant species but not beyond) may be useful.  However, one must always keep in mind that every aquarium is different biologically, and some factor we may not even be aware of can affect algae.  Also, plants will respond best when all 17 required nutrients are present, and light intensity is adequate for the needs of the species.  Most all nutrients do occur naturally, from fish foods and water changes.  It becomes necessary to add fertilizers when the natural nutrient availability is not sufficient for the needs of the plants with respect to the light.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

 

Alright HUUUGGGEEEE WC just took place. I would say 70 ish gallons, I drained the sump AND instead of running the water after filling the sump, I took water right out of the display tank this time. Cleaned out all the fish food garbage left in the bottom of the sump for the most part, changed the filter floss.
Now the trick is, do I dare add the flourish again? Do I have it right in thinking that the algae benefits from the MACROS and not the micros correct?
O and I raised my lights also 4 inches off the top of the tank instead of right on it.

 
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my knowledge of sumps is non-existent, just want to keep that in mind.  From what you have been describing throughout, I am getting the impression that this type of filtration may be high in organics.  Those with more experience may be able to comment either way.  Organics will support algae if the dissolved organics exceed what the plants can use.
 
Raising the lights will lessen the intensity, yes.  More of the light is going out to the sides rather than down into the water.
 
So to the question on algae and nutrients.  I have found that using two doses of Flourish Comprehensive definitely caused a sudden increase in a type of brush algae in one tank.  Once a week did not.  I did this test twice over several months, results identical.  Then I tested and discovered that using Flourish Trace once a week in addition to one dose of Flourish Comp did not affect algae, but the floating plants did seem better (which was the initial reason for two doses of FC).  So from all this, I would suggest that algae may have a greater need for the macros, and keeping those minimal (sufficient for the plant species but not beyond) may be useful.  However, one must always keep in mind that every aquarium is different biologically, and some factor we may not even be aware of can affect algae.  Also, plants will respond best when all 17 required nutrients are present, and light intensity is adequate for the needs of the species.  Most all nutrients do occur naturally, from fish foods and water changes.  It becomes necessary to add fertilizers when the natural nutrient availability is not sufficient for the needs of the plants with respect to the light.
 
Byron.
 

Yeah there was a ton of "organics" that did indeed slip past the filters. I am sure due to that, with the over feeding ( of which I have cut down the amount of food a good amount, for I only feed the fish once a day ), my PO4 was though the roof, which of course, plants do use a bit of that, but not as much as over feeding I am sure produced. Add that with a high turn out for the NO3, I am thinking that was just a cause for disaster.
Now what the plan is, to add the flourish, see how that does. I might still keep the saturday/wednesday routine and see where that takes me. I think its going to be a process of elimination here. Keeping a nice clean organic free environment will , I hope, a huge improvement.
Now mind you, I did NOT clean the sand. The zebra loaches should take care of any particles that do happen to fall down there. As for the overflow, that should take care of any food partials that might stick to the surface and if there is any uneaten food it should get skimmed off the surface and end up into the filter floss then, in which I can change that.  I will also keep an eye for organics that might slip past that, and clean as I normally would throughout the week as needed. the amount of water removed is only going to be 15 gallons at the most ... which is around 10% of the water total volume anyways.

 

[watertown28]

Shoot, I thought of this right now, but does prime actually detox the iron from the flourish? I usually let the tank sit a hour once I add prime before I add the ferts.

 

[Byron]

Shoot, I thought of this right now, but does prime actually detox the iron from the flourish? I usually let the tank sit a hour once I add prime before I add the ferts.

 
I questioned Seachem a while back about this, and they responded that Prime would detoxify the "heavy metal" nutrients (iron, copper, zinc, etc) in Flourish Comprehensive for about 24-36 hours.  They recommended using Flourish a day after using Prime.
 
I don't use Prime myself, I do not like it, as it does more than I need or want.  But the conditioner I use (which happens to be API) also detoxifies heavy metals (most conditioners do), and I have recently started dosing fertilizers the day following the water change.  I am also dividing the amounts to dose less more frequently during the week.  I am not absolutely certain that either change (not dosing on the water change day, or dividing up the amount)  has made any benefit, though I think the plant response might be a bit better, but there has certainly been no negative observable difference.

 

[watertown28]

Well I think I am getting this under control. I will post pics very soon. I have decided to start doing more WC durring the week, but at smaller volumes. This forces me to clean the sumps more often to rid of all the decaying food that might make it past the filter floss.
 
The plants are starting to take off. Not so much the sword in the 75 gallon, but the wisteria seems to be greening up rather decent.
 
For the 72 bow, now that has been a huuuuge improvement. The wisteria there has started to perk up, I am almost all gone of the bearded algae now, even the huge chunk of wood most of it is gone from there. Now there is some floating around that must have died and got free floating, tangled in the plants, but that will be cleaned up over time as I get to it.
 
The Argentine swords in the 55 gallon seem to be perking up. I believe a few new leaves have come out and looking fairly healthy.
 
Heck even the java ferns seem to be growing daughter plants in all my tanks, and many instances, they are getting large.
 
I might for the time being hold off on dosing the flourish. Ill keep a close eye on everything to see how it goes, I may even start up again if I do, at much smaller dose and creep up . This should help curb any huge algae outbreak that might happen... easier to control it this way.
 
Next experiment is in another 55 gallon ( yes I have many tanks heh ). This one has some anubis ( sp ? ) some wisteria, and got me some moneywort. Now, this lighting set up is some cheap POS shop light, basic, with normal reflector... and you know what I did with the 2x 8000k bulbs? They are in that, about 12 inches from the top of the tank. This tank is only stocked with 4x peacock gobies. This tank is in pristene condition, for whatever reason I usually pay real close attention to this tank. I think its due to not being able to fine the gobies locally.
 
BTW, would you happen to know of some plants that I could keep with some rainbow fish? I believe I have Red Irian Rainbows and a few Australian Rainbows. 5 of them total in that tank. I adopted them for the poor girl only had a 20 gallon and they got way to big for that tank, so I had the space, empty tank, why not? I ask because they are super active fish. I literally need to keep the cover over my hand when I feed them because they come half out of the water at feeding time.

 

[Byron]

Many species of rainbowfish prefer moderately hard water (a few species are softer water), so if these are the ones, consider Vallisneria.  The corkscrew Vallisneria is a very nice plant, and there is the very large-growing Jungle Vallisneria.  Vallisneria plants grow very well in moderately hard to hard water as they can use bicarbonates as a source of carbon (soft water plants cannot, either very well or at all).  Tougher plants like Java Fern and Anubias (both attach to wood or rock) should also fare well.
 
Byron.

 

[watertown28]

Welp, a co worker is giving up his 125 gallon tank. He offered for me to buy it. This is gonna be much fun if I can ever figure out how to get it downstairs. He has a few fish that need to be rehomed of course, they wont need a 125 gallon... he just dont have the time anymore for a tank so I guess I am a lucky one.