Rye's Fishless Cycle

[Ryefish]

PM tests:

PH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 80

roll on tomorrow morning

 

[waterdrop]

Sometimes I think of bicarb as really nice to "string it along" at a higher pH until the nitrates really hit the roof and then comes the big water change and recharge of ammonia (and possibly some more bicarb.) You have to remember that if you do a big water change near the end of a fishless cycle it might give you some zeros at 12 hours that are caused by the water change and not the bacteria, so you have to be skeptical for a few days after that.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryefish]

yes, i thought that a water change now might give false double 0's for a while because everything would be watered down. Ill see tomorrow's result and just top up with Bi-carb.

Hope there is a difference in tomorrow results

 

[Ryefish]

This AM's tests reveal...

Ammonia: 0 - finally!
Nitrites: 1

If the ammonia is back tomorrow i am actually going to scream

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, its funny how ammonia can come back to "playin with ya" just like nitrite when you're trying to get down to that last set of double zeros at 12 hours.. can be really frustrating but trust me, even though a fair number of fishless cycles do this, they also eventually turn into solid double-zeroers --WD

 

[Ryefish]

it wouldn't surprise me if it did come back to "play" with me tomorrow -.-
You may hear my screaming all the way over in the states if it does WD

 

[Ryefish]

Day 30's PM readings:

PH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 160

Ammonia topped up, adding Bi-Carb to up PH to 8

 

[Dan-CR4]

i see you got double zeros again , lets hope you start getting these every 12 hours now, keeping fingers crossed for you.

 

[Ryefish]

THIS DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE!!!

AM Readings:
Ammonia: 1!!! ONE!!!
Nitrites: 0.25



I will test again when i get back from the farm. My afternoon testing's are generally alright (I BET THEY AREN'T TODAY!!!) its just these stupid morning ones


ETA: if the water wasn't so #40## warm i would have shot a goldfish in there to finish this off. this is ridiculous

 

[Ryefish]

so...

19 hours after ammonia dosing...
Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrite: 0

LOL what?!
I need a /facedesk emoticon

 

[Ryefish]

Day 31 - PM

PH: 7.9
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0.25
nitrates: 160

excuse me whilst i go cry


Im buying all my plants on tuesday. I won't refresh the water, so they will be in a yellow tank, but i am sure they will be fine

 

[Ryefish]

Day 32 AM
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrites: 0.50



ETA: I added a chart to the first page. It doesn't include Nitrates because they are so high they make it harder to see everything else

 

[waterdrop]

Ryefish, you are having a classic case of what I like to call the "sticking problem." I have no idea why it happens in some cases and not others but its just there as something I've observed, watching a lot of cases. I'll try to tell you what I know about it.

Its useful, in the sense that it serves as a warning that there would at least be the -possibility- that if you did the big water change and got fish, the filter would mini-cycle on you and cause you to be forced to do a number of irritating water changes to keep the fish safe. On the other hand, you have to remember that that's just a -risk-, not a "for sure" and there's also a good chance that it would just settle down and behave as if it had been fully cycled. Its just at the frustrating edge.

Could you remind me again of the filter model and tank volume its serving? (Sorry I'm too lazy to go back to old threads, just being lazy this morning!)

The batch of live plants (a lot I'm presuming?) arriving at this point in time will present a challange in that of course you will not quite know whether its them processing the ammonia or the bacteria (they may also visibly process some of the nitrate - would be interesting to see if they did.) If the plants weren't arriving I would be recommending another very large water change (or maybe even two) to try and get all that nitrate out. (Depending on the filter model I might even be thinking about a very gentle filter clean!) Are you planning to dose some liquid carbon to help that not be a limiting factor in the plant performance?

Its interesting, this situation presents two possibilities. You could of course proceed, giving your filter time to show unequivocally that it can sustain double-zeros at 12 hours. On the other hand if you are planning to plant more than 70% of the substrate area, you could consider a very small first stocking and switch over to fish-in cycle behavior. If this is one of those filters that's going to take more like two months to sort itself out, that could be painful but if its not, that could be very pleasant, its just hard to predict.

I know its tough to watch your friend Dan move to fully cycled and still be seeing these traces but at this point I would say that the test results are probably not lying and its important for us not to talk ourselves into ignoring them. Anyway, will be interested to hear about the filter and about the plant volume...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ryefish]

Thanks for the reply WD

I was considering this morning planting up, getting two fish (rasbora's) and going into a fish-in cycle, and then slowly stocking up with two more fish once its sorted itself, watching for a mini-cycle, and then getting the snail, waiting again, then finally the shrimp i wanted.
In my opinion (people may disagree), this wouldn't be as bad as if i had gone fish-in right at the beginning.

I felt a bit better this morning after seeing the chart. The ammonia and nitrite HAVE gone down from the beginning, but they do seem kind of stuck at the minute. The ammonia which was clearing in 12 hours for a while is now bouncing up and down every day (and even turning up at the 24hour mark) which is leaving me stumped, and the nitrites are all over the place.

The tank is a small 30L Bi-Orb and im using the under gravel filter within the tank. Im considering changing to a different filter in the future but that wont be for a long time yet (i have a bag of bi-orb sponges to use up first).

The substrate area isn't that large with it being a round, awkward, small tank, the planting would take up quite a bit of space (and i have that lump of bogwood in there too).


No idea what my plan of action is now lol

 

[Ryefish]

I finished Uni/college four hours earlier than i thought i was going to, so i went and got the plants, and have spent all afternoon planting and re-arranging and i think im finally happy (just need to sort a few things out). I had a deadline this morning at Uni so i forgot to post my results last night because i was busy writing about Donkeys LOL

I did a large water change last night, mostly because the gravel was gross.

Test before the water change:
PH: 7.8, Amm: 0, Ni: 0, Na: 160

I tested about four hours after the water change and after dosing the ammonia and the test was:
PH: 7.2, Amm: 2, Ni: 1, Na: 40

so the water change didn't do too much damage and the nitrates are still pretty high.

This mornings readings:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0.50


Tomorrow's readings will decide whether i get the fish and go fish-in


Will post tonights readings when they are done