Rye's Fishless Cycle

:lol: No, you are thinking about your pH thing all wrong. Your pH suddenly dropping now near the end is a "good" thing, in the sense that its a sign your beneficial bacteria are truly beginning to run a bigger nitrogen cycle in your tank! The final product of the cycle, the nitrate(NO3) has a nitric acid component (about 7% or so) when its in water (as it is of course) and this is the acid that goes to work on whatever buffer you have and potentially can use that up and suddenly drive down the pH, stopping the bacteria.

Since you -know- you are fishless cycling and you know you have a lot of nitrate(NO3) in there, the plan of choice is to perform a large (90%, meaning down to the substrate) water change (with good technique as usual) and then recharge the ammonia (carefully to 5ppm since you are nearer to the end of your fishless cycle) and your bicarb. You absolutely do not need to be worrying about crushed coral in this situation. (Crushed Coral is just a different method of raising mineral content, just like bicarb, but is the method of choice when you have fish because it is automatically very slow in causing the changes and quick changes will kill fish.)

Being forced to do some big water changes to clear nitrate and to raise pH near the end of a fishless cycle is a good thing in that it gives you practice with the logistics of these types of water changes. They will be possibly the most important maintenance activity after you get fish, There is -nothing- quite like a good gravel-clean-water-change for refreshing the vitality of a freshwater aquarium!

You two (ryefish and Dan) are making me think about my own bogwood, lol. Some of the other regulars like OM47 et.al. have learned that a lot of the fun for me is cerebral rather than coming from as many tanks as I used to have. When it comes to my tank my son and I are running, I'm boringly slow to make major changes. To wit I've had a beautiful piece of bogwood that I've been soaking... since last fall (yes, all winter :lol: ) and its still giving off tannins but the truth is it takes a week to give some off and they would easily be handled by weekly water changes, so its long been in good enough shape to go on into the tank and really the other thing I'm stalling about is deciding which java ferns to attach -where- along the bogwood such that I'll end up with a good look to the resulting aquascape - that part is hard for me. I did have a great weekend though in that I successfully transitioned a small group of new neons over from my quarantine tank into the main tank and added yet another group of baby neons to the Q-tank right afterward! This morning they are all alive and well and both groups are accepting tiny moving bits of the high protein flake food they like, which means both groups will likely make it, yea! :)

~~waterdrop~~
 
yay to both groups making it!

Im relieved about the PH. I was hoping it would just be because of the cycle. I suppose doing maintenence water changes every week/second week would refresh the PH anyways.

My bogwood can take a week to give off anything and then sometimes it can take three days and the water is gross. It doesn't bother me too much though, i know the fish will probably enjoy the murky-er water. You don't really notice it too much though, like my mum has no idea until i start complaining about the colour of it. I plan on having some plants in the back of the tank though which should hide some of the white wall behind it.

I am excited to get fish. I just have to keep telling myself to wait, and that it will be worth it
 
Yes, there's no getting around that the fish are the life of the party, lol. But its ultimately the "whole package"... the fish, the plants, the nice clear water and glass... part of what makes the hobby so absorbing to the thoughtful hobbyist is that you are immersed (lol) in a balance of ongoing things within the walls of your tiny environment you've created and its all quite complicated and beautiful... there's really not much else quite like it in my opinion, its quite wonderful. Another wondful thing that can come of it is that you are sometimes more dumbstruck by the awesome beauty and complexity of nature after you've had your own hand at trying to directly control a tiny bit of it!

~~waterdrop~~ :) :)
 
I've just been to the LFS. i was naughty and bought some moss. I asked for a bit and i have this massive handful, LOL! no idea what im going to do with it all.

where did u buy the moss, i am wanting to get some to attach to my coconut shell, how much did it cost if you dont mind me asking?

Danny
 
I just went to the LFS and asked. They normally have loads in the shrimp breeding tank, which obviously isnt for sale or you'd get free shrimps too, but they actually had some in another tank for once. Its just Java Moss, and it only cost something like £1.50. Maybe in the future if i get another tank i will look into getting some christmas moss which i personally think looks a bit nicer than the Java. I dont know if there was a set price for it. The guy just fished out loads of it. Its kind of just floating in my tank - LOL! I tied some to the bogwood but it looks a bit out of place - i don't know if thats just because the tank is tiny and is a stupid round shape.

Omg you are absolute miles from me lol! Scratch the idea of sending you some. Is there no shops close to you that you can ask?
 
Day 27
AM -
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 1

PM -
PH: 7.9
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 80

I totally screwed up my ammonia dosing on Day 25 and ended up with a mini nitrites spike on the morning :( , but it looks like my tank has gotten over it.

Hoping my tank is going to do the same as Dan-CR4's and by day 31 i get my first double 0's ;)
 
:(

Day 28 AM
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrites: a little bit lighter than 1 but not quite 0.50 - 0.75?


How can my ammonia clear all this time and then not today?

I've tested two hours later (would have done one hour but i fell asleep :crazy: ) and got 0 ammonia and the Ni's are just as awkward with a colouring between 0.25 and 0.50.


ffeeeedddd uuuuppppp :(
 
keep at it, mine was at 0.25 at day 28 then 3 days later i hit double 0's. Waterdrop told me i could get a spike of ammonia nearing the end of the cycle, maybe thats what you are getting. im sure it will work itself out for you.
 
It looks like its trying really hard ryefish. 21 days has been speculated in the scientific section as being about the fastest possible and you are not much over that. We don't see many of ending this fast.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I think you will find that the simple mathematical model that was used in the thread related to ammonia only WD. That means that the 28 days approaching closely to final conditions is even more amazing.
 
Oh you're exactly right, I had forgotten - the 21 day thing was only for the ammonia part, no nitrite consideration at all!
 
Results this morning are the same as yesterday:

Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 1.0

Tested three hours later (i fell asleep again lol) and nitrites are still the same as yesterday at 0.25.

PH is at 7.2 which isn't too bad - 7.2 has quite a nice colour on the chart.
If my PH dropes below 7 again can i do a large waterchange instead of dosing bi-carb? or is it best at this point to keep the same water in there?
It just looks a bit yellow in there :lol:


Joyous day of studying in the library ahead of me :(
 

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