Please Help...

[Elise]

Hey All,

My friend rescued a betta about a week ago. I posted on how to treat it for consitpation, but the betta's bloated belly has not lessened even though he is excreteing normally. Now she says his scales are protruding noticably. I know dropsy is normally fatal, but she wants to try and help....is there anything she can do? And if not, what is the humane thing to do: euthanize him or let him live through it? Thank you for your help.

 

[MissD]

I had this happen with one of my bettas and decided to give Maracyn 2 a try. I put my little man in a 2 gallon bowl, no heater, filter, or anything, and worked out the correct dosage for him; I believe it was half a tablet for the first day and a quarter for the following 4. On day 3 his water was starting to get cloudy, so I gave him a 100% water change and the higher dose of Maracyn again (which you really shouldn't do, but it worked for me), and for the remaining two days put him back down to the quarter pill dose again.
I honestly don't know if it's luck, or something I was doing right, or just a combination of the two really, but he's absolutely fine now. This was about a week ago and he's completely back to normal and flaring and attacking anything in sight. Just please make sure your friend doesn't add any salt to the water...it can cause the fish to retain liquids and can apparently make the whole problem worse.

Wish your friend good luck, and let me/us know how it goes. It would be nice to hear another dropsy success story!

 

[Elise]

No salt??? Oh no. I'll have to call her right away. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you posted.

 

[cation]

Just please make sure your friend doesn't add any salt to the water...it can cause the fish to retain liquids

Source this, please. Salt should have the opposite effect on fish, as it makes their environment hypertonic to their bodies. This should result in less fluid buildup, not more.

 

[black angel]

i can only go on what i have read on other sites but normal aquarium salt makes fish hold water and epsom salt draws fluid away.
thats my understanding anyway.

 

[GuppyDude]

Maracyn 2, salt, clean water, airstone, tons of fresh food, 50% water change every 12 hours, my friends fish get dropsy all teh time for some reason and he used to lose them alot, but by this method its no biggie. hasn't failed yet

 

[black angel]

found this article for goldfish, but it can be taken for any freshwater species that tolerate salt

http/www.goldfishinfo.com/salt.htm

 

[cation]

Black angel, although the info in your source is basically correct, nowhere does it state that salt makes fish "retain water". If the salt concentration in the water is higher then that in the fish body, the fish will lose water. If the salt concentration is lower then that in the fish body, the fish will retain water. On this point the author is right - it's simple osmotic balance. So, by that fact, you can see that for freshwater fish, a higher salt concentration in the water will result in the fish losing water, as the process of osmosis is based on the idea that water goes from the area of more water to the area of less water. Or, if you'd rather look at it this way, the water travels from a less concentrated solution (ie, water with less salt) to a more concentrated (ie, water with more salt.

Confuzzled yet? Shoulda paid more attention in Biology class!


In case anyone's curious, my source on this issue is "Biology - 5th edition". The authors are Campbell, Reece, and Mitchell. This is a general bio college text used by the majority of universities for their intro to bio series of classes, at least here on the West Coast.

 

[black angel]

ok then i admit biology wasnt my strongest subject

from now on i shall tell everyone to use salt when treating dropsy.
so going with the salt then for dropsy, i take it it would be ok to use maracyn 1 and 2 then with salt?
epsom salt will work as well then.

 

[MissD]

Interesting.

I was always told that when a fish is suffering from dropsy and is bloated, the salt with have the opposite effect and make it more difficult for him/her to "de-bloat".

I didn't use any in my betta's bowl after being told not to and his dropsy cleared up...course, that's not to say it's not possible it wouldn't have WITH the salt, I suppose.

Who knows?

 

[BettaMomma]

I had actually read that you shouldn't add salt, too - for the same reason.
The explanation made sense to me when I read it, though I guess.

Luckily for me I've never had to battle dropsy firsthand, though...

 

[cation]

Don't get me wrong, I was making a general comment about fish homeostasis - I'm not saying that salt's the best thing for dropsy. The assumption there would be that dropsy is a buildup of water in the fish, which in many cases is not what is happening. So putting salt in may or may not be effective, depending on what's causing it in the first place. Many things are thought to cause dropsy, so many different treatments may or may not be effective. It's a tricky one.


The one thing I might suggest is colloidal silver. Although I've not personally used it on dropsy, a recent article in FLARE! (written by our own wuvmybetta... ) suggests that in addition to its multitude of other uses, it may help cure dropsy in some cases.

 

[black angel]

this is one of my sources but its from another forum and his advice is really good.



IMPORTANT:
RECENT RESEARCH has shown that if the disease cause is bacterial and if the disease process is caught early enough, treatment with Romet B, a broad spectrum antibacterial, *may* be effective when used concurrent with an increase in water temperature to 84-86F for 2 weeks minimum. BE CERTAIN to maintain HIGH OXYGEN LEVELS during such treatment since at these temperatures, water holds significantly less oxygen then more standard water temperatures. one of the suspected bacterial precursers to the disease process -- Aeromonas, is killed at these temperatures. concurrently add 1/8 teaspoon of EPSOM SALT -- per 5 gallons of water. feeding foods soaked in ERYTHROMYCIN will kill the second suspected bacteria, Mycobacterium. in rare cases popeye has been found to be caused by Edwardsiella etarda. this is found *only* in fish that have been bred in outdoor ponds -- the functional bacteria in this case is carried by frogs. while fair to good results in treatment have been found by feeding Romet B., even better results have been found using injectable chloramphenicol or amakacin. this is best done by your veterinarian.

If parasites are a known cause, treat for them first for 3 days increasing the temperature to 86oF as fast as possible.

EPSOM SALT may help reduce the internal pressure casued by the swelling. extremely good aeration is necessary here due to the use of such high temperatures.

NEVER USE SALT (sodium chloride, a.k.a aquarium salt) for treatment of dropsy. this will KILL your fish in a very short time. the affected fish are already having a difficult time getting rid of salts due to kidney disfunction. this causes the blown up appearance and concurrent scale standing. the osmotic inbalance caused by addition of sodium to your tank water will make this condition far worse. EPSOM SALT on the other hand, does not pass through the walls of the gut or gills and will extract water OUT of the surrounding tissue into the gut where it *may* be excreted.

 

[cation]

NEVER USE SALT (sodium chloride, a.k.a aquarium salt) for treatment of dropsy. this will KILL your fish in a very short time. the affected fish are already having a difficult time getting rid of salts due to kidney disfunction. this causes the blown up appearance and concurrent scale standing. the osmotic inbalance caused by addition of sodium to your tank water will make this condition far worse. EPSOM SALT on the other hand, does not pass through the walls of the gut or gills and will extract water OUT of the surrounding tissue into the gut where it *may* be excreted.

This is an example of what I was talking about in my last post - in cases when kidney function is inhibited, ANY addition of salt may not be a good treatment. However, this is not the only cause of dropsy - it's one of many.

See how tricky this all gets?


Just an added note - Black Angels post mentioned that Aq. Salt is sodium chloride - for anyone who's interested, epson salts are magnesium sulphate.

 

[black angel]

yup sure do.
theres lots of people saying yes use it others saying dont use it. i found an article that said humans that eat a lot of salt can get dropsy.
as theres many causes to dropsy its hard to give anyone the right advice. but looking at what you have written, then i wont be so quick to tell people not to use it.