Plants while cycling

[SnailPocalypse]

So Is it ok to have water wisteria or any other plants/driftwood/rock whilke cycling I am goanna use dr tims ammonium chloride for fishless cycle

 

[luca1980]

yep I have cycled all my tanks with plants in them using Dr Tim's ammonia. They help to speed things along.

 

[kamilnieradka15]

Currently I'm setting up 400l tank with few plants in and few fishes and as far as I know it's speeds things up as fish poo and then it can break down and can see if fish are acting differently or not since I put my 5 fishes in they're fine and happy so it didn't take long to cycle my tank as I had old gravel in and filter

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[SnailPocalypse]

So plants will be fine in there? also the rocks and driftwood shouldnt affect cycle either right?

 

[Munroco]

They will both help speed up the cycle. Rocks and wood will provide more places for bacteria to grow on and plants will help break down ammonia and nitrates.

 

[luca1980]

So plants will be fine in there? also the rocks and driftwood shouldnt affect cycle either right?

Rocks and driftwood won't affect your cycle - if you can source them from an established tank they will help speed things along. Your plants will be fine also

 

[StevenF]

If the plants have everything they need to grow the tank will show zero ammonia and nitrite, and nitrate. Plants can do this well enough that bacteria would have noting available for the bacteria to grow.

unfortunately changes in micronutrient levels can slow and even stop plant growth. Worst case the plants will even die. If that happens your fish would have to get through the resulting nitrite, and ammonia spikes without the aid of bacteria.

I would recommend cycling without plants and then once that is done put the plants in. This insures the bacteria will be there. The plants and bacteria would then work together to process nitrogen. If the plants for some reason stop growing The bacteria would quickly grow and process nitrogen.

Putting in the plants after cycling with ammonia is the safer way to set up the aquarium. Buying plant fertilizer may not solve the problem. Most fertilizers out there assume you will have at least some of the elements plants need. but occasionally tap water will be deficient in something. An if that happens you plants won't grow or grow slowly.

 

[Ch4rlie]

If the plants have everything they need to grow the tank will show zero ammonia and nitrite, and nitrate. Plants can do this well enough that bacteria would have noting available for the bacteria to grow.

Am afraid I have to disagree with a lot of what you mention here. The only way plants will show zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is if the tank is densely planted, I mean way more than the average newbie puts in their first tank, which is usually just a few plants to start with.

Also plants generally always have nitrfying bacteria on them and they do produce oxygen right down to their roots, this enables nitrfying bacteria to colonize. So that is a good arguement to have plants in the tank for cycling, though its certainly easily done without plants as well.

unfortunately changes in micronutrient levels can slow and even stop plant growth. Worst case the plants will even die. If that happens your fish would have to get through the resulting nitrite, and ammonia spikes without the aid of bacteria.

As mentioned, plants comes with nitrfying bacteria, and these bacterias will spread quickly on pretty much every surface int he tank as well as in the filter. the only case this spike will happen is if ALL the plants suddenly die and the tank is not cycled then there may be spikes in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I would recommend cycling without plants and then once that is done put the plants in. This insures the bacteria will be there. The plants and bacteria would then work together to process nitrogen. If the plants for some reason stop growing The bacteria would quickly grow and process nitrogen.

If a normal fishless cycle is carried out without plants, and then add plants, its possible the plants can reduce the total ammonia in the tank that will then reduce the bacteria colony to the appropriate size to deal with what little NH3 is available.

Basically, the plants can cause the death of a certain amount of bacterial colony that was worked hard for to get during the fishless cycle....

Putting in the plants after cycling with ammonia is the safer way to set up the aquarium. Buying plant fertilizer may not solve the problem. Most fertilizers out there assume you will have at least some of the elements plants need. but occasionally tap water will be deficient in something. An if that happens you plants won't grow or grow slowly.

I have always maintained, and still do, that adding plants first, let the plants settle over two weeks or so, THEN start the fishless cycle.

This has several benefits, it can be quicker and more effective since plants comes with nitrfying bacteria so that starts the process immediately anyway. And with that, one can adjust the ammonia dosages accordingly so that works with any given plant load in the tank.

As for ferts, most fert companies assume that there is nothing else in the water, so they usually contain a certain amount of micro and macro ferts in balance. The only time this is really relevant is if starting a high tech planted set up with high lights and Co2.

The other thing one must consider is, if after a successful fishless cycle without plants and suddenly adding plants, how are these plants going to settle in properly before adding fish. There are many fish pick at or pull plants, disturb the substrate surrounding the plants and thus plants get uprooted etc so thats a consideration one must think of as well.

So to sum up, leaving the plants to settle in for say two weeks gives them a good chance to establish and grow some roots etc and then starting a fishless cycle and thus the plants are more likely to deal with whatever is thrown at them during the fishless cycle.

I have done this method with all my tanks without any issues at all tbh.

 

[SnailPocalypse]

Let me clear some stuff up.The plants are coming from a already cycled tank.Also I will probaly put 4-5 plants in there to start.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Yup, that's perfect.

Regardless of where plants come from, with exception to clinically grown plants, they will have the relevant bacterias needed for cycling and this will spread through the tank and filter.

Leave the plants in the new tank for up to two week, at very least a week, to help them settle and then proceed with your Fishless cycle.

 

[Byron]

I would not do any sort of artificial "cycling" once the plants establish. Adding any form of pure ammonia [you mentioned Dr. Tims One and Only, and this method requires adding ammonia] can kill or set back the plants--note I said "can," not "will." Ammonia is after all toxic to all life depending upon the level.

The live plant "cycling" is absolutely safe provided you do it correctly--but then that applies to other methods too. Have some fast-growing plants; stem plants (Wisteria was mentioned) achieve this, while floating plants are absolutely the best as they can use CO2 from the air which aids them. Second absolute is to not overload the first fish. The tank size is not mentioned, nor the intended fish, so I can't offer much more. But if the plants are fast growing and "growing," and the fish are few, there is no better method to start a new tank. I have set up dozens of tanks in this manner. And I have never detected ammonia or nitrite with this method. Nitrate usually appears at some point.

Byron.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The 'silent cycle' as Byron is referring to is another good effective method of cycling a tank, but again, there needs to be a large number of plants, the majority being fast growing plants as Byron mentions to ensure this works effectively.

I would suggest to ensure that the lighting is adequate to enable the plants to use the ammonia to grow.

Would advise that caution is to be taken in adding fish with this method, as adding too many too soon may not be effective.

So perhaps adding a few fish every 7 to 10 days until the tank is adequately or fully stocked.

But perhaps this method is not the best for those new fishkeepers who have not kept a planted tank before. The cycle is only really viable if the majority of the plants grow well.

So this is why I always tend to recommend Fishless Cycles, with or without plants, for new fishkeepers who are not experienced in plants nor perhaps not very knowledgable about the nitrogen cycle.

For those who are interested in this method and would like to learn more, a good suggestion may be is to read Diana Walstad's book - Ecology of the Planted Aquarium : A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist", 1st ed. December 1999.

 

[SnailPocalypse]

Ok so here is whats goanna happen its a 5 gallon it will have water wisteria in it then it will only have one dwarf puffer also I will put some tetra safestart in it if needed

 

[Byron]

Ok so here is whats goanna happen its a 5 gallon it will have water wisteria in it then it will only have one dwarf puffer also I will put some tetra safestart in it if needed

I would most certainly not consider "cycling" this tank. Build the aquascape, including the plants, and run the tank (no fish). Use the Safe Start (I usually don't bother, as I have plants and wood from existing tanks that are loaded with bacteria, but it can't hurt). I would use a comprehensive plant fertilizer like Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, just the recommended dose (one). If the plants show signs of life, as opposed to decomposing to mush in a couple days, add the puffer.

Byron.

 

[rhys_1992]

I cycled my tank with plants in. All growing healthy and fast (pruning at least once a week) only thing I worried about was plecos but not had no issues. Like its been said if done right theres no hassle

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