The water conditioner that Country Joe uses is the same one I use. It does not detoxify ammonia, it just "dechlorinates aquarium and tap water, detoxifies heavy metals". It contains just thiosulfate and EDTA.
Think i may do Dr Tims cycle
- Thread starter Country joe
- Start date
Country joe
Fishaholic
The original dr tim said use I drop per gallon, now its changed to 4 drop per gallon, there's a few you tube video's when using the 4 drops method have hit problems, and others have kept to the original of one drop per gallon and the results have been successful, I hope I'm not wrong but I think I will go with the 1 drop per gallon.
I have been getting mixed up, it's Dr Tim's ammonium chloride which is dosed as so many drops per gallon not One & Only. Apologies for confusing you 
Looking on the website, it says
"To add One & Only shake the bottle well then pour the entire bottle into your tank. You can also add the One & Only to your sump or filter. Your aquarium water may become cloudy, it will clear in a short time."
It then goes on to say to add ammonia to the tank, in this case his own brand at so many drops per gallon.
So add the whole bottle of One & Only (the bacteria product) either into the tank water or into the filter. Then add ammonia. If you have a bottle of Dr Tim's ammonium chloride use the number of drops per gallon on the bottle label. With any other brand of ammonia, use the dosage calculator at the bottom of this page
Ammonia needs to be added to feed the bacteria.
Looking on the website, it says
"To add One & Only shake the bottle well then pour the entire bottle into your tank. You can also add the One & Only to your sump or filter. Your aquarium water may become cloudy, it will clear in a short time."
It then goes on to say to add ammonia to the tank, in this case his own brand at so many drops per gallon.
So add the whole bottle of One & Only (the bacteria product) either into the tank water or into the filter. Then add ammonia. If you have a bottle of Dr Tim's ammonium chloride use the number of drops per gallon on the bottle label. With any other brand of ammonia, use the dosage calculator at the bottom of this page
Ammonia needs to be added to feed the bacteria.
Country joe
Fishaholic
Yes, about the ammonia, but as I said it appears a few have used the 4 drops per gallon, but not all so e have found it okay, and others have kept to his original dosage instructions o 1 drop pergallon and its been a success, I find it confusing but as I said I'm leaning towards using the 1 drop pergallon, but am I right?
The answer is to add one drop per gallon, wait 30 minutes for it to mix in thoroughly then test the water for ammonia. You are aiming for 3 ppm. If it tests less than that add more. If you do need to add more I would increase slowly to get to 3ppm, another 1 drop per gallon and test after 30 mins, then if it's still too low another 1 drop per gallon and so on. It's easier to take it slowly because if you overshoot you would need to do a water change to get it back down to 3 ppm
Country joe
Fishaholic
Will do
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Do not rely on your test kit to read accurately after dosing the ammonium Chloride, Trust that is will provide the concentration of ammonia advertised. If there is any bacteria that can use ammonia (and this can be more than just the nitrifiers) it will start dropping as soon as the ammonium hits the water. Testing is fine but not to indicate the level of ammonia right after dosing. If you are also using One and Only, then it changes the results from what am unseeded cycle is expected to generate.
Next, some years ago Dr. Hovanec changed the formulation from 1 drop/gallon to 4 drops. Read the bottle label for the ammonium chloride. For larger volumes it would be a PITA to have yo do drops. In a 100 gal. tank that would be 400 drops. Instead you can use the following information from Dr. Tim:
1 ml = 20 drops
5 ml = 1 teaspoon = 100 drops
15 ml = 1 tablespoon = 300 drops
We do not fill our tanks to 100% of the water capacity, We leave some space at the top and we usually are adding decor and substrate, All of this decreases the total volume. Dr. H suggest using 80% of the advertised volume. I usually use 85%. Either one is fine. The amount we muight over or underdose will not make a significant difference. Also, one's substrate will host a fair amount of the needed bacteria. If you go bare bottom, it will take longer to complete the cycle as the bacteria have to multiply in the fewer better places for them to be.
It is important to understand that the test kits we might use come in two varieties based on the measurement scale used. Dr. Hovanec is a scientist and they use the Nitrogen scale. This means it measures only the nitrogen aka N. So 1 ppm of ammonia (NH3) = 1 ppm of nitrite (NO2) = 1 ppm of nitrate (NO3). However, most hobby test kits read using the Total Ion scales. This measures all of the components, the Hs and the Os.
But as we can convert between miles and kilometers or pounds and kilos etc, we can convert the two test scales. The conversion for Total Ammonia-N (NH3 =NH4) is ammonia-N x 1.28)
Nitrite- N (NO2) is nitrite-N x 3.28
Nitrate -N (NO3) is =nitrate-N x 4.23
What the above means is that if you are using a Total Ion test kit like the very popular API ones, when Dr. Hovanec says to dose 4 drops/gallon (or 3.75 litres) to produce 2 ppm, he is using the Nitrogen scale. The API kit will measure this concentration of ammonia as 2 x 1.28 = 2.56 ppm . And the 5 ppm of ammonia-N scale that we should exceed is 6.4 ppm on thh API kit. For 5 ppm of nitrite-N the API kit would measure it at 16.4 ppm. But that kit only goes to 5 ppm. Finally, nitrite-N numbers get very high. 20 ppm of Nitrite-N = 84.6 ppm on the Total Ion Scale.
So, if one is targeting 3 ppm of ammonia using thei API test kit, they need to add more which would require a slightly higher dose. Here is the math 2 drops = 2 ppm-N = 2.56 on the APi kit. Rounding down to 2.5 the dose is 2.5/3.0 = 83% of the targeted 3.0. This means the dose is .17 short. 4 x 1.17 = 4.68 drops per gallon.
This can be a bit daunting for calculating in smaller tanks since we can not measure partial drops. But we can also redo the math. So in 10 gallons of water the dose to get to 3 ppm would not be 40 drops but rather 46.8 and I would round up to 47.
However, for most tanks just using the 4 drops/gallon and producing just 2.56 ppm of ammonia will be fine. The exceptions would be if one has water which is 8.0 pH and above. The reason is that, in a higher pH, ammonia is more toxic. So while a tank at 7.0 and 80F can have .5 ppm to Total Ammonia, but the amount of NH3 in that total would be 0.0033 ppm. This is not a problem especially in shorter time periods. But raise the pH to 8.5 and that becomes 0.086 ppm which is not safe. My rule of thumb is when NH3 hits over 0.05ppm, action may be needed in tanks with a higher pH and temperature. These calculations were done using an ammonia calculator you can find here https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
Do not keep adding ammonia willy nilly. It does not require a lot of ammonia additions to complete a fishless cycle. When I am dosing ammonia into either an individual tank or my bio-farm, I measure the ammonia using the dosing measurements I listed above. I do not test after I add the ammonia. I am testing at 12 or 24 hour intervals dependin on the situation. When the end of the cycle is close, I tend to test in 12, JIK. If the tank clears the ammonia in 12 and there is also 0 nitrite, the tank is cycled. But if the ammonia is not 0, I do not test the nitrite and I wait another 12 hours and test again. The finish line is when we can add 3 ppm of ammonia on a Total Ion test kit and have 0/0 readings for ammonia and nitrite.
Lastly, if one uses seeding of bacteria, either from a viable bottle of the right ones or if one uses filter squeezings and.or decor from a well cycled tank, this wull change the numbers one will get when they test. Ammonia should not get as high and Nitrite may noy even show up. The reason is when we seed a tank we are adding both types of bacteria. This meabs whatever amount of ammonia can betirned into nitrite, there should be enough of thos ebacteria to process as soon as it appears. So if you do seed a tank, be aware that you are not waing for 1 then the other bacteria to apppear, they are both there. All we are waitning for is to be able to add about 3 ppm of ammonia and have it be 0 w/i 24 hours and for the nitrite to be 0 as well. That is the holy grail of the cycling process.
Next, some years ago Dr. Hovanec changed the formulation from 1 drop/gallon to 4 drops. Read the bottle label for the ammonium chloride. For larger volumes it would be a PITA to have yo do drops. In a 100 gal. tank that would be 400 drops. Instead you can use the following information from Dr. Tim:
1 ml = 20 drops
5 ml = 1 teaspoon = 100 drops
15 ml = 1 tablespoon = 300 drops
We do not fill our tanks to 100% of the water capacity, We leave some space at the top and we usually are adding decor and substrate, All of this decreases the total volume. Dr. H suggest using 80% of the advertised volume. I usually use 85%. Either one is fine. The amount we muight over or underdose will not make a significant difference. Also, one's substrate will host a fair amount of the needed bacteria. If you go bare bottom, it will take longer to complete the cycle as the bacteria have to multiply in the fewer better places for them to be.
It is important to understand that the test kits we might use come in two varieties based on the measurement scale used. Dr. Hovanec is a scientist and they use the Nitrogen scale. This means it measures only the nitrogen aka N. So 1 ppm of ammonia (NH3) = 1 ppm of nitrite (NO2) = 1 ppm of nitrate (NO3). However, most hobby test kits read using the Total Ion scales. This measures all of the components, the Hs and the Os.
But as we can convert between miles and kilometers or pounds and kilos etc, we can convert the two test scales. The conversion for Total Ammonia-N (NH3 =NH4) is ammonia-N x 1.28)
Nitrite- N (NO2) is nitrite-N x 3.28
Nitrate -N (NO3) is =nitrate-N x 4.23
What the above means is that if you are using a Total Ion test kit like the very popular API ones, when Dr. Hovanec says to dose 4 drops/gallon (or 3.75 litres) to produce 2 ppm, he is using the Nitrogen scale. The API kit will measure this concentration of ammonia as 2 x 1.28 = 2.56 ppm . And the 5 ppm of ammonia-N scale that we should exceed is 6.4 ppm on thh API kit. For 5 ppm of nitrite-N the API kit would measure it at 16.4 ppm. But that kit only goes to 5 ppm. Finally, nitrite-N numbers get very high. 20 ppm of Nitrite-N = 84.6 ppm on the Total Ion Scale.
So, if one is targeting 3 ppm of ammonia using thei API test kit, they need to add more which would require a slightly higher dose. Here is the math 2 drops = 2 ppm-N = 2.56 on the APi kit. Rounding down to 2.5 the dose is 2.5/3.0 = 83% of the targeted 3.0. This means the dose is .17 short. 4 x 1.17 = 4.68 drops per gallon.
This can be a bit daunting for calculating in smaller tanks since we can not measure partial drops. But we can also redo the math. So in 10 gallons of water the dose to get to 3 ppm would not be 40 drops but rather 46.8 and I would round up to 47.
However, for most tanks just using the 4 drops/gallon and producing just 2.56 ppm of ammonia will be fine. The exceptions would be if one has water which is 8.0 pH and above. The reason is that, in a higher pH, ammonia is more toxic. So while a tank at 7.0 and 80F can have .5 ppm to Total Ammonia, but the amount of NH3 in that total would be 0.0033 ppm. This is not a problem especially in shorter time periods. But raise the pH to 8.5 and that becomes 0.086 ppm which is not safe. My rule of thumb is when NH3 hits over 0.05ppm, action may be needed in tanks with a higher pH and temperature. These calculations were done using an ammonia calculator you can find here https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
Do not keep adding ammonia willy nilly. It does not require a lot of ammonia additions to complete a fishless cycle. When I am dosing ammonia into either an individual tank or my bio-farm, I measure the ammonia using the dosing measurements I listed above. I do not test after I add the ammonia. I am testing at 12 or 24 hour intervals dependin on the situation. When the end of the cycle is close, I tend to test in 12, JIK. If the tank clears the ammonia in 12 and there is also 0 nitrite, the tank is cycled. But if the ammonia is not 0, I do not test the nitrite and I wait another 12 hours and test again. The finish line is when we can add 3 ppm of ammonia on a Total Ion test kit and have 0/0 readings for ammonia and nitrite.
Lastly, if one uses seeding of bacteria, either from a viable bottle of the right ones or if one uses filter squeezings and.or decor from a well cycled tank, this wull change the numbers one will get when they test. Ammonia should not get as high and Nitrite may noy even show up. The reason is when we seed a tank we are adding both types of bacteria. This meabs whatever amount of ammonia can betirned into nitrite, there should be enough of thos ebacteria to process as soon as it appears. So if you do seed a tank, be aware that you are not waing for 1 then the other bacteria to apppear, they are both there. All we are waitning for is to be able to add about 3 ppm of ammonia and have it be 0 w/i 24 hours and for the nitrite to be 0 as well. That is the holy grail of the cycling process.
Country joe
Fishaholic
I have a JNW aquarium testing kit, the ammonia colours are nil to 6 the numbers ppm ar 0, 0.5, 1, 2, 4, and 6. Doesn't have a 3ppm would bringing it to the 2 or the 4, or try getting between be okay
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Most test kits don't, you have to look for a colour between 2 and 4 ppm.
TwoTankAmin says to just add the amount of ammonia as stated on the bottle. They did change the concentration a few years ago which is why you can't go by videos etc as you don't know which concentration they used. The dose rate on the bottle will be correct for the concentration inside.
The cycle won't proceed the same as the method on here if you use bottled bacteria. The method on here assumes no bottled bacteria. The thing to look out for is zero ammonia and zero nitrite 24 hours after adding ammonia.
TwoTankAmin says to just add the amount of ammonia as stated on the bottle. They did change the concentration a few years ago which is why you can't go by videos etc as you don't know which concentration they used. The dose rate on the bottle will be correct for the concentration inside.
The cycle won't proceed the same as the method on here if you use bottled bacteria. The method on here assumes no bottled bacteria. The thing to look out for is zero ammonia and zero nitrite 24 hours after adding ammonia.
Country joe
Fishaholic
Did my first water test nitrate ppm 40
Nitrite ppm 0.5
Free chlorine ppm 1
PH 7.2
Gener hardness caco3 ppm 150
Total alkalinity ppm 180.
Should I go ahead with using Dr Tims ammonia and one and only or could I just add four small tetras? Should I just add the one and and only and miss out the ammonia with a water change or use both.
Nitrite ppm 0.5
Free chlorine ppm 1
PH 7.2
Gener hardness caco3 ppm 150
Total alkalinity ppm 180.
Should I go ahead with using Dr Tims ammonia and one and only or could I just add four small tetras? Should I just add the one and and only and miss out the ammonia with a water change or use both.
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No don't add fish. There's nitrite in the water and nitrate is too high. You haven't tested for ammonia.
Ammonia burns fish's skin and gills making it harder for them to 'breathe'. Nitrite binds to the blood in the same way carbon monoxide does to us and stops the blood being able to carry oxygen. Nitrate isn't as bad but it should be under 20 ppm.
Have you tested your tap water? The UK allows up to 50 ppm in drinking water and some regions have tap water nitrate almost that high. If your tap nitrate is high that would account for the nitrate in the tank; but if it's low, the nitrate is being made in the tank.
Do you have a liquid test set? The readings you give are typical of strips which are notorious for being inaccurate.
Finally, 4 tetras is not good. They would be very stressed as they'll think the rest of the shoal has been eaten and they'll be looking over their shoulders all the time for the predator. With shoaling fish, the whole shoal should be added at the same time. Research has shown that shoaling fish do best with at least 10.
Ammonia burns fish's skin and gills making it harder for them to 'breathe'. Nitrite binds to the blood in the same way carbon monoxide does to us and stops the blood being able to carry oxygen. Nitrate isn't as bad but it should be under 20 ppm.
Have you tested your tap water? The UK allows up to 50 ppm in drinking water and some regions have tap water nitrate almost that high. If your tap nitrate is high that would account for the nitrate in the tank; but if it's low, the nitrate is being made in the tank.
Do you have a liquid test set? The readings you give are typical of strips which are notorious for being inaccurate.
Finally, 4 tetras is not good. They would be very stressed as they'll think the rest of the shoal has been eaten and they'll be looking over their shoulders all the time for the predator. With shoaling fish, the whole shoal should be added at the same time. Research has shown that shoaling fish do best with at least 10.
Country joe
Fishaholic
I did two tests one with strips that I put on here, and one liquid which I will put on now ammonia nil. Nitrate number 2 0.5 and pH test 8.0. Should I leave their Tims when it arrives and just continue with my weekly water changes, or just add the one and o ly with no ammonia or use them both with the ammonia. It may not look like it, but I do have patience to just leave the tank. The reason I mentioned the fish was because this was the advice from my local shop, but I will only take your advice, I will test my tap water and stick it on here. Sorry it should be nitrite .5 got them mixed up, it's not nitrate
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If it were me, I'd add One & Only (whole bottle) and immediately afterwards add Dr Tim's ammonium chloride at the dose rate on the bottle label (so many drops per gallon). Then test for both ammonia and nitrite after 24 hours. Then report the readings on here.
Country joe
Fishaholic
Okay will take your advice, liquid test on tap water. Ammonia nil. Nitrate no 2 nil. PH test 7.5. Again should be nitrite no 2 nil
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Country joe
Fishaholic
Okay will do
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