Pearls Of The Antilles... Llj's Planted Marine

[lljdma06]

yes i know your meaning completly and it is refreshing to see somebody starting out (even an experienced mod) with this approach as usually its a bit more of a grabby attitude.

Journals are teachiing tools. It's best to be thorough. If a newbie reads my journal, he/she will see our discussion and will hopefully shy away from the more difficult species. I've posted pictures of the books I've purchased. All my journals are this way. It isn't really for me.

tbh i would think that in a well planted (macro or mangrove) a few of the azoox inverts would be totally feasable but whilst i try to get people to keep a few of the easier species i tend to try and steer those same people away from the more difficult ones.

Agreed, some livestock are not for beginners. The anemones are a challenge too. I suspect they'll be too big for my system, though I've read conflicting reports on how big they get in a home aquarium. Anemones have a lot of body mass. If that thing dies... the tank is toast. Also, they sting and can harm corals and other livestock. So if I did keep one, I'd have to take that in consideration. Do I want a macro algae tank with an anemone, which ia actually a very plausible habitat in the Caribbean, or would I prefer to keep corals with the macro algae and forego an anemone. A dilemma, as the Condy is extremely beautiful. At any rate, I couldn't add any of my more difficult species until the systems about a year old. I guess, I could keep the easier corals and then swap them out once I figured the tank was ready for something more challenging.

your quite lucky it would seem as if those are the only to species that you want to stock that i consider a difficult one to care for you should have a roarinf success

I think the anemones, conch, and slug would pose challenges.

things like dendronepthyea, electric flame scallops and - it would seem - forever ellusive Muricella plectana are what call to me.... #41#### corals wanting to be fed!

You like what you like. I like mosses and liverworts in Planted tanks, others don't. I like Macro algae, others don't.

Liz

 

[fishy55599]

conches arent hard

 

[lljdma06]

conches arent hard

I didn't say they were hard, but they do pose challenges as they do grow to be about 4 inches long, need a lot of algae, and they are attacked by hermit crabs. Again, I'd have to decide, do I want a Florida Fighting conch or hermits? Another example of an animal that can leave a big, stinky mess, if it dies. LOLOL. I've seen Florida Fighters in the while, they are lovely. Right now, as much as I love the idea of a native son that I have seen, I also like crabs and think they'll be more interesting.

Honestly, of the challenging species, I'm leaning towards the slug. It's difficulty lies in its dietary requirements, but seeing as the tank will feature its food items, it may be an interesting animal to keep when the tank matures. Otherwise, my species, are not too shabby, as Sorgan said.

 

[demasonisrule]

If you're going for either hermits or the conch, I'd go for the conch. Hermits are a PITA IMO. All they do is knock over frags, kill snails, and cause a general ruckus. And while they are interesting for a while, they lose their appeal after they kill your brand new $40 acro frag. For eating dead things, they are very good (maybe the best), but there are other things that will do the same things. Needless to say they were the only things I wasn't sad to see go when I killed my red bugs.

 

[Donya]

Clibanarius tricolor (potentially harmful in large numbers)
Paguristes cadenati (potentially harmful in large numbers)

I would recommend one or the other, not both, even if in small numbers. Mixed species environments are unpredictable and can result in hermit wars, especially when the environment isn't very big.

Strombus alatus (no hermit crabs if I go this route; may be too large for the tank, but definitley a FL native)

You can keep hermits with conches, provided the hermits are small by comparison. Clibanarius tricolor is plenty small enough. I've had those and other small Clibanarius in with my conch for the entire 4+ years I've had it. The important thing is that the hermits need to be small relative to the conch so that they are easily put off by the conch smacking if it gets overturned. I have never kept Paguristes cadenati myself, so I can't comment on compatibility with that one, but the size would bother me a bit. Also, you can keep conches in smaller tanks than is conventionally spread about in the hobby if that's your worry about size. Most conches readily accept feedings of dried seaweed and pelleted foods, and so don't need to be forced to scavenge purely from the sand bed. If you're meaning size as far as how much space the animal has to move around, that is an issue of course with regards to how you scape your rock and how much sand bed is free.

Nerita spp.

Might be an issue wanting to wander. Many Nerites that enter the trade are from coastal habitats.

Astraea spp.

Would stay away from these and their immediate relatives TBH. They're very common in the trade and some have success with them for some time, but many have only short-term suvival and have to replace them every few months (which should really be a sign that those snails don't belong in the tank). They are not as hardy or well-suited to most tanks as the average Turbo species.

Elysia crispata (needs algae Bryopsis, Derbesia, and possibley Halimeda, advanced species)

These will eat Caulerpa too, which can be easier to find, although they prefer the thick-stemmed versions. The main issues are that they aren't very long-lived even in the wild and are very, very fragile. IME Opisthobranchs that get snicked by something as common as a bristleworm can be toast in as little as 48hrs if an infection sets in before the wound heals.

Hermits are a PITA IMO. All they do is knock over frags, kill snails, and cause a general ruckus.

Yep, when you set up the environment poorly for hermit crabs and/or choose species poorly and/or try to stock them as a generic janitor, you run the risk of them doing just that. You can't toss any old hermit into any old tank and expect it to be a success, just like you can't toss the entire cast of "Finding Nemo" into a nano and expect great things to happen. There are plenty of common tank setups where hermits are just fine because they are too small to harm the snails even if they wanted to and don't have any expensive and fragile frags placed in an area they will be inclined to climb all over repeatedly.

 

[lljdma06]

Thanks for the imput Donya. No, I'd read that mixing hermits wasn't advised, I was just listing species to choose from. Man, I really need to make this clearer, apologize for the confusion. I'm leaning toward the Paguristes, cause I think it's purtier... No other good reason right now, so I'll let you know. They only get about 1.5 inches, so with a 4 inch fighter that might not be too bad, provided I get little crabs. The snail list is a list for consideration. Knowing that the conch is more feasible actually pleases me. I preferred the Turbo and the Trochus, but I had to list some more species. Was disappointed that I couldn't find a Caribbean species. I'll have to look more carefully. The slug is still appealing, even though I was aware of the short lifespan. It's one of those "they'll die if you stare at 'em funny" species.

I'm like that you wrote this... No offense to the poster who doesn't like hermit crabs...

Yep, when you set up the environment poorly for hermit crabs and/or choose species poorly and/or try to stock them as a generic janitor, you run the risk of them doing just that. You can't toss any old hermit into any old tank and expect it to be a success, just like you can't toss the entire cast of "Finding Nemo" into a nano and expect great things to happen. There are plenty of common tank setups where hermits are just fine because they are too small to harm the snails even if they wanted to and don't have any expensive and fragile frags placed in an area they will be inclined to climb all over repeatedly.

I think the important thing to do is the to find a compromise in environment setup that will please most organisms, and treat each organism, even the seemingly least important, with some measure of respect, which is why I concocted my list in the first place. Also, this is another reason why I focused on such a specific region. Bleh... no full cast of Nemo in my tank! No offense to those who do keep mixed regions, I just never liked it much. My SA otos in with my Asian rasboras and WCMM even bother me.

Now, if I get Aiptasia or a thumbsplitter in the tank, I'll throw respect right out da window and show 'em who's boss!

I'll be doing some more reading and begin reducing the numbers on the list.

I'm kind of surprised no one has commented on the anemones. But I guess, I've commented on them enough. I guess everybody knows that I know they are not particulalry easy and that I'm not treading lightly.



Liz

 

[lljdma06]

Revised list... Beginning to wonder if I shouldn't reduce my lighting?

Sessile inverts

Corallimorphs
Ricordea florida
Discosoma sanctithomae
Discosoma neglecta
Discosoma sp. (mushrooms)

Zoanthids
Palythoa caribaeorum
Palythoa grandis
Zoanthus pulchellus

Gorgonians (yes, Lord Sorgan, am considering all options)
Erythropodium spp (Caribbean encrusting gorgonian) - could be cool, doesn't look like your typical Gorgonian and likes brighter light.

As I plan to have a DSB, feather dusters worms may also be an option.

Motile inverts

Cleaner shrimp
Lysmata grabhami
Lysmata wurdemanni


Crabs
Mithrax sculptus
Paguristes cadenati (potentially harmful in large numbers, but they are very little)


Snails
Turbo sp
Trochus sp.
Tectus spp.
Strombus alatus (no large hermit crabs if I go this route; may be too large for the tank, but definitley a FL native)

Sea slugs
Elysia crispata (needs algae Bryopsis, Derbesia, and possibley Halimeda, advanced species)- Yes, I still kind of like it.

Macro algae
Halimeda copiosa
Acetabularia calyculus
Udotea sp
Galaxaura sp
Dictyota sp

Liz

 

[Donya]

I preferred the Turbo and the Trochus, but I had to list some more species. Was disappointed that I couldn't find a Caribbean species.

Have a look at Cittarium pica, often incorrectly sold as a "zebra Turbo." Only snag is that from my experience with the species they seem to do best in water that is just slightly cooler than the average reef tank (75-76F vs. 78-80F).

 

[lljdma06]

I preferred the Turbo and the Trochus, but I had to list some more species. Was disappointed that I couldn't find a Caribbean species.

Have a look at Cittarium pica, often incorrectly sold as a "zebra Turbo." Only snag is that from my experience with the species they seem to do best in water that is just slightly cooler than the average reef tank (75-76F vs. 78-80F).

Hahahaha! Saw these when I snorkled in the Caribbean. They were really pretty. Too fun! That's why I love doing this region. I can say, I saw this and I saw that.

Added bonus, they are edible...

LOL, I should redo my pool and stock it with snapper!

 

[seffieuk]

Wow wee, impressive, you have certainly been doing your homework - Gold Star awarded

Seffie x

 

[Donya]

Hahahaha! Saw these when I snorkled in the Caribbean. They were really pretty. Too fun! That's why I love doing this region. I can say, I saw this and I saw that.

Out of curiosity, do you know what the water temperatures are like seasonally where you snorkled? The apparent optimum temperature discrepency I've observed for that species always puzzled me given the range, but there are some funny interactions between diet and temperature that I've seen in other snails. I have one freshwater species that is quite "tropical" by range, but it breeds, grows like a weed, and seems to live much longer in the aquarium when kept at around 68F with a high-protein diet. I haven't ever had the opportunity to go out to Cittarium pica's natural range with a thermometer to see what the temps are down there, but it's something I have wondered about for a while after obseving that strangeness with the freshwater species.

 

[lljdma06]

Hahahaha! Saw these when I snorkled in the Caribbean. They were really pretty. Too fun! That's why I love doing this region. I can say, I saw this and I saw that.

Out of curiosity, do you know what the water temperatures are like seasonally where you snorkled? The apparent optimum temperature discrepency I've observed for that species always puzzled me given the range, but there are some funny interactions between diet and temperature that I've seen in other snails. I have one freshwater species that is quite "tropical" by range, but it breeds, grows like a weed, and seems to live much longer in the aquarium when kept at around 68F with a high-protein diet. I haven't ever had the opportunity to go out to Cittarium pica's natural range with a thermometer to see what the temps are down there, but it's something I have wondered about for a while after obseving that strangeness with the freshwater species.

When I went the water was in the 80s when I checked the local weather report, but no, I don't run around with thermometers either on a cruise. I haven't been on a cruise since 2006. LOLOL, I think it's time I go again, Donya, and this time, with the proper equipment! I'll sacrifice myself for science.

In South FL, surf temp is in the late 60s in winter and up to the late 80s in Summer. Fall and Spring, it's in the 70s.

 

[lljdma06]

Posted in Marine hardware... About powerheads and Skimmers

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/364892-powerheads-protein-skimmers/

Still reading, but with the opera, I haven't been able to focus.

 

[lljdma06]

To pass the time while I wait to go on stage...

Liz

 

[ian]

wow, your reading slaroc!

I can't wait to see the tank up and running!