out of time. Mum at end stage.

[Alice B]

Any music is good. I grew up listening to the same country you did, I lived in Western Kentucky, there wasn't anything but country and gospel. I like that old country. And I like a lot of other music too. One day at a time. Take it easy

 

[Colin_T]

See if citizen's advice bureau can put you onto a lawyer that can help (maybe pro bono) with the will and stuff or a community lawyer. Hopefully you can do it cheaper than $6500. It should be just a matter of officially informing various departments (government, bank, etc) of her death and filling out the required paperwork.

Just do a bit at a time in regards cleaning the house and going through stuff. When my grandmother died everyone raced around and took stuff but none of them wanted to help clean out the house. They helped a bit at first by taking some items, which meant less to clean, but that was it. I was fortunate and had a friend who was willing to help me and we simply spent a few hours each day out there cleaning and packing stuff. It took a few months but we got it emptied and cleaned up. If you try and do it all in one hit, you will burn out mentally and physically, and you are already burnt out, so take it easy, do a bit each day and make sure you continue to look after yourself. Good food, (vitamin supplements too), lots of sleep, daily exercise outside with the dog, and keep talking to people like the councellors.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I live in the US, although I wasn't born here. I've never heard anyone saying country music is "controversial".. besides it's your music choice, don't apologize for it.

Ah, sorry, I didn't mean it in a bad way! Just that it tends to be the marmite of music genres - people seem to either love it, or hate it! But that might be a false stereotype I've picked up from media, since I'm in the UK and never set foot in the USA or Canada (yet!), so maybe I'm wrong!

But I love it. I also accepted long ago that I enjoy the music I enjoy, from different genres and time periods, at different times and depending on my mood/situation, like everyone really!

When I'm feeling angry/angsty and need to get some of those emotions out, I listen to a lot of (uncensored) Eminem, The most breakout album of Alanis Morrisette, Jagged Little Pill, which was my "turn it up and blast it while in my angsty teenage girl phase when angry and wanting to be left alone, lol). Things I haven't revisted in years as well, like Jewel's early work, some rock, plus some different music for mourning, or for soothing the dog and I to sleep.

Never apologise for music taste, I agree!

Been lurking in your thread, guess just watching how you handle this intense time.

Thank you, silent supporter! It's sometimes easy when you know a lot of the members and share things over the years, see the same usual names posting, but often forget the silent lurkers! And it's weird when you remember that a lot of other strangers will have seen this.

But I appreciate any thoughts and prayers, positive energy sent out, and anyone interested enough to follow and to continue reading along! I've found it helpful therapy as you said. Typing things out as I'm going through it does help me process it... and my friends here are updated all at once when I post updates on the thread, and know why I'm not engaging much with the main forum topics at the moment. Can be easier to post here so they know I'm okay, on the days I can't get on or handle answering pms yet. They've all been wonderful, thank you guys.

We all have rough patches, and losing parents is one of the worst things, however it is the natural order of things.
It is unfortunate that society has become such that one can't grieve properly, nor can one take care of things without having to spend significant time and money hiring "experts" who have learned the arcane ways of government bureaucracy.

This is very true, and while losing both parents in the same year has been very hard, I also know how lucky I am to have had them as parents, that both lived into their 80s, that I cared for them in the end the best I could, and they both had the kind of deaths they wanted, bravely accepting it, and promising to look over us and be with us forever. Not everyone is as fortunate as I am in that respect. I'm already thinking about ways we can donate to St Peter's Hospice and potentially do some fundraising for them down the road - they've been such a massive help.

The bureaucracy... Oh the bureaucracy!
I'm aware that both funerals are going to cost in the £5,000 range, even for the simplest cremation and service, but there is enough in their estate to cover that.

I'm thinking more and more that I'll see how I manage to get things done and moving over the next couple of weeks first, while also reading up and listening to advice from Citizen's Advice and St Peter's Hospice, and the tax office... maybe consult after that about just having the details double checked and finalised by a solitor for less than the 6,500 "we'll do everything" thing. I learned a lot of potentially useful info from the free consult with the Co Op legal services and their advice on their website about what to do/who to notify when someone passes.

Best wishes for you and your brother, seems sharing with fellow fishheads is good therapy for you.

Thank you so much! I'm pretty stubborn, and while an emotional wreck at times and too open - there's some core strength that helps me keep going and fighting back. This is going to be painful no matter what, but the therapy with fellow fish nerds definitely helps me. It also encouraged me to keep going with the hobby so I don't lose a passion or fish that I love.

Any music is good. I grew up listening to the same country you did, I lived in Western Kentucky, there wasn't anything but country and gospel. I like that old country. And I like a lot of other music too. One day at a time. Take it easy

*Hugs if wanted!* I wish I'd grown up in Kentucky! I'm a country girl, born on the wrong continent, and possibly in the wrong time period. But I was horse mad, a voracious reader, and read a lot of Mills & Boon romance novels in my early teens that made me desperately want to move to Montana, Wyoming, Texas, or somewhere where there's cowboys, ranches and horses, and happy ever afters.

Not going to lie, even though I'm about to turn 41, there's still some of that core romantic left in me, and I'd definitely visit the Southern States to do some Western style riding (I've only ever learned English style riding, but always wanted to learn the Western style!).

I love gospel and R&B music too! Love Motown, the Gospel influence with stars like Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, even Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. Loved all the divas in the 90s and early 2000s, there's something about a power ballad that still resonates with me! Also listening to a lot of Erykah Badu and John Denver.

See if citizen's advice bureau can put you onto a lawyer that can help (maybe pro bono) with the will and stuff or a community lawyer. Hopefully you can do it cheaper than $6500. It should be just a matter of officially informing various departments (government, bank, etc) of her death and filling out the required paperwork.

For sure, thank you! I'm definitely doing that before signing up for anything that will cost thousands. I know I can get organised and get on top of it all, it's just gonna take some time to sort it all, whether I were to do it myself, or pay a solicitor to handle it. Pretty sure we won't owe any Inheritance tax, and between talking to Citizen's Advice, the banks, and social worker hospice team, I might be able to manage it myself.

Just still not confident I'll be able to manage alone, and worry I'll forget something important or make some huge mistake, and being legally responsible for handling it is scary. But scary doesn't always mean bad. I used to be always up for a challenge or adventure, or a debate - surely I can manage this?

We shall see!

Just do a bit at a time in regards cleaning the house and going through stuff. When my grandmother died everyone raced around and took stuff but none of them wanted to help clean out the house. They helped a bit at first by taking some items, which meant less to clean, but that was it.

Aaahh, I'm sorry you went through that. It's rough when some family members act like vultures, while leaving the thankless and hard work to the more responsible family members and not always sticking to offers of help. Such a shame, but I can see how it can cause rifts. Since dad passed first, without a will, everything of his estate (most of which was joint with mum anyway) automatically transferred to her, and the bank is sorting out the final statement and balance calculations etc for the accounts with just his name so they can be paid into mum's estate, which since she also passed without a will, should be split 50/50 with my brother.

No other immediate family anymore, closest relations are lovely people, really helpful, My mum's elder sister's daughters, who are both in their 60s now, and wouldn't dream of trying to take anything from us. Quite the opposite, they wish they could do more to help, but they are a huge help just by calling and checking in, and giving me some perspective and sensible advice. They'll visit for mum's funeral, as they did for dad's, and have offered for me (and bro, if he wants) to visit and stay with either of them at anytime, spent more time meeting their families, seeing my aunt - who is bedbound and has dementia, but she and my mum were the closest out of the three sisters, after losing the middle sister at a relatively young age.

I fully intend to take them up on that! With them being more than 20 years older than I am, they have better memories of my folks when they were younger, and we all loved visiting our Auntie and Uncle, who were wonderful people and raised a lovely family. They've reminded me that we're still family, and that we can call anytime, and check in at least once a week if they haven't heard from me. I'm lucky there.

Some more distant family members live close, and some attended dad's funeral, but otherwise we haven't really all met or had a relationship, so don't know whether any will attend mum's funeral, but I doubt they'd challenge, or have any ;egal standing were they to challenge the estate for a share. No one swooping in to take anything either, but there isn't a lot of value apart from sentimental value anyway. A few antiques a collector might like, but nothing Antiques Roadshow worthy!

I was fortunate and had a friend who was willing to help me and we simply spent a few hours each day out there cleaning and packing stuff. It took a few months but we got it emptied and cleaned up.

I'm glad you had that friend! I have a couple of friends like that -and brother is definitely willing to help me sort, dispose of, re-arrange and deep clean, even if I have to teach him cleaning and organising techniques.

If you try and do it all in one hit, you will burn out mentally and physically, and you are already burnt out, so take it easy, do a bit each day and make sure you continue to look after yourself.

You're so right. At the moment I'm trying to balance chasing up legal/financial/medical stuff and handling that side of things on weekdays, and spending the weekends more intensively clearing, re-arranging, donating, and working on most of the rooms a bit at a time. Because you're right, it's hard, physical work, there's a lot of sentiment and emotion around everything, and it feels sort of disrespectful in a way to me, even though I know mum and dad wouldn't want us to keep the house like a shrine to them, with everything as it was, and that it wouldn't be healthy to do that either!

Eventually, I'll be moving into the master bedroom upstairs, mum and dad's room. I'm not ready to do that quite yet, but I've already made a start on cleaning and putting away things/organising, and drawing up some plans and lists for furniture and items. We can use that room to also gather furniture to donate, bags of books, puzzles and knick knacks without sentimental value etc to be donated to St Peter's Hospice.

Also making changes to living room since it desperately needs it. The sofa & rug are ruined, it's an awkwardly shaped long and narrow room, and contains two huge parrot cages, and dad's huge 57g ancient aquarium and stand which isn't totally level but has been there for 15, maybe 20 years? Not entirely sure, but more than a decade at least - needs replacing - I'll be moving some smaller cabinets to make space, then moving my huge reinforced cabinet that would perfectly fit my empty 240L Roma, or hopefully fit two of my smaller tanks so I can set up the fish I'm keeping in the 35g, and a 22g for pygmy cory/oto gang. Might temporarily use the 12.5g as well, just to sort fish for sale into so collectors can come and choose, and not have to struggle to show and catch which individual fish are for rehoming/sale.

Good food, (vitamin supplements too), lots of sleep, daily exercise outside with the dog, and keep talking to people like the councellors.

Thank you, I hope you're taking the same advice! I don't have a therapist/counsellor yet, but I'm waiting lists, and my GP has been a great help, as have St Peter's Hospice, and getting out more, without having panic attacks, ideally, and getting into a better routine while working on my own health is definitely a priority!

The hypervigilance is calming down a little now, for all of us I think. Have more of an appetite, although still not motivated enough to cook properly very often since it takes time and energy, and it's still "dad's kitchen" in my head, messy and cluttered and desperately needs ripping out and everything replacing, but can't do that, so while I am making changes in there gradually, and deep cleaning bit by bit, it's a lot.

I am making an effort to eat healthier again though, and at more regular times, and sleeping a bit better I think. It's a process, it's gonna take time, but I'm physically and I think mentally better and more stable than I've been since Christmas Day.

 

[Alice B]

Could you have a joint funeral service for your parents? Cremation is cremation but the service can be the expensive part, if its joint that would both cover all relatives and friends and possibly be less expensive?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

@outofwater @Alice B and @Colin_T

Sorry, I hit enter on that previous post accidentally, have edited now to finish writing it! So you might want to scan back. Thank you all for your responses!

Could you have a joint funeral service for your parents? Cremation is cremation but the service can be the expensive part, if its joint that would both cover all relatives and friends and possibly be less expensive?

No - dad has already been cremated and we held the funeral back in March, there was a long gap between his passing and the funeral as well, since he passed in early Feb, and funeral wasn't until late March.

I hope the gap for mum's isn't quite so big, but at the same time, it doesn't really matter if it takes a while.

Since we hadn't yet finished paying off dad's funeral costs, even though I'd called the same funeral home (Thomas Davis) that handled dad's funeral and they'd said no problem and collected mum on Christmas Day... they then called me twice on the 27th. Two days after mum had passed, two days after Christmas, while I was still a wreck physically and emotionally - and said that since there was still a balance owing on our account for dad's funeral, they wouldn't be able to arrange mum's funeral. The first call at 9:30am on the 27th woke me from a fitfull short sleep, and was a nervous sounding girl asking if I could come into the office to start making arrangements, and I said I can't yet, would need to be at a later date, but outlined that we wanted basically the same thing we'd had with dad's funeral, including the same pastor, if possible.

I obviously didn't pick up on some hints, or was too tired/confused to understand what she was trying to say, and why they were making contact so quickly, having been so kind and understanding on Christmas Day. Then around noon on the 27th, a different woman from the same funeral directors called, and was brutally blunt, icy, and dismissive with me, patronised me, and successfully talked their company out of another £5,000 of business.

So I contacted a different funeral company, talked with the bank about deposits for funerals that they can pay directly from the state if we have a proper invoice etc, and meeting the funeral director from that company (Co-Op, for our UK friends!) to begin making arrangements for them to handle mum's funeral instead. They've already taken mum into their care from Thomas Davis.
I will make sure the money we still owe Thomas Davis for dad's funeral is paid, we do owe them that, and the money is in their savings to cover both funerals. We just can't touch it ourselves yet, since they died without wills and it all has to go through probate. But I'm not giving more money to Thomas Davis beyond paying off what we owe them, and collecting dad's ashes.

We haven't even collected dad's ashes yet. No one else was willing to help me choose an urn, or had wishes for what to do with his ashes, so the company said to take our time, could ring anytime to arrange to collect them. Mum's health also declined so rapidly, and that became the most time consuming thing, so choosing and ordering an urn so we could collect them was bumped down the priority list, and I was worried that seeing an urn and dad's ashes would upset mum, so I consciously decided to wait, once we knew that mum's time was limited.

I have been looking at twin/companion urns though. Urns and wooden boxes that can hold the ashes of two people, with both their names and some beautiful birds on it. I'll see if the bank can authorise a payment for a joint urn from mum's estate/dad's savings. Later, once things are more settled and we know where we're at financially, emotionally etc, I'd like a more personal keepsake, such as those small amounts of ashes that are made into a diamond or semi precious produced gem, that could be set into some of her jewellery, or a locket or something.

Mum wore a long silver chain with a St Christopher, a beautiful delicate cross, and an emergency SOS "I'm a diabetic" tag thing for medics that was set into the St Christophers. Want to get that cleaned up, then add mum's wedding ring to it and wear it myself. It's long enough that it hangs over my heart.

I haven't looked into the rules around scattering ashes yet, but that's also a possibility at a later date. I'd just like to keep them both in a beautiful wooden companion urn for now, if we can swing the cost.

 

[Colin_T]

I got my girls in foil bags when they were cremated. I couldn't deal with picking an urn or doing anything when they died. I was on the edge of suiciding and didn't care about anything. The funeral company said we can put them in a bag and pop them in a box and if we want to get an urn later we can get the ashes put in the urns. It sounds horrible having them in foil bags but they were nice, neat and decorative and put in a couple of nice cardboard boxes with their names on. They were still in those boxes when I was thrown out of my place in 2016.

You can normally spread ashes anywhere. The bodies get to such a high temperature, nothing survives and the ashes are completely sterile. Just stand upwind when you do it.

 

[Alice B]

I think my granddaughter's ashes are still in a foil bag, but we also all ordered pendants on Amazon to wear a little of her ashes in, they were very inexpensive, and because Iris loved to travel her mom has driven all over the country and scattered a little ash in the places Iris would have loved. She was 17 when a drunk driver killed her and her friend.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I think my granddaughter's ashes are still in a foil bag, but we also all ordered pendants on Amazon to wear a little of her ashes in, they were very inexpensive, and because Iris loved to travel her mom has driven all over the country and scattered a little ash in the places Iris would have loved. She was 17 when a drunk driver killed her and her friend.

Oh my lord, I'm so, so sorry. I have a loathing for drunk drivers for exactly this sort of reason. I'm sympathetic to addictions, but getting drunk then getting behind the wheel instead of getting a lift or an Uber or something - or even sleeping in a bush overnight rather than get behind the wheel, would be better.

I'm so sorry for your and your families loss. Life is so cruel and unfair. 17... so young and just on the cusp of young adulthood, and the ripple effect on everyone who loved her is immeasurable. I'm so sorry. Scattering the ashes all over the country in places she'd have loved was also a thought I'd had, but it's too early days yet for me to think about scattering them.

Never listened to this group before, was just an autoplay that caught my ear because her voice is so exceptional (@WhistlingBadger , you're the Music Man, what do you think?) I just think her voice is hauntingly beautiful, plus the lyrics really hit home in a big way for me.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

This one often autoplays too, and makes me weep too.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Okay, enough music therapy/self-pity now.

Since it's the weekend, I've been focused on cleaning, organising, and preparing to move furniture around to different rooms to make the house more functional and allow a deep clean, and to set up the smaller tanks I'm going to transfer my current fish too.

I did lose some fish through neglect. I feel a lot of guilt about it, but the last couple of months were so intense, with so little outside help (and not much practical help from bro, unless specifically requested and given tasks), and in between caring for mum personally, being the liaison person for all the medical people, and having a dog, two parrots, two fish tanks and the large outdoor pond that I managed to spend an hour doing winter prep on at least - but the fish definitely didn't get enough water changes, filter cleans, or tank cleanings the way I used to do. I'm sure nitrates are sky high, I'm too chicken to test the water. But I'd see the odd molly ailing, do a water change and add Prime to try to buy some time, but I did lose a few fish. Some mollies I really liked, a couple of tetra (one of the elderly ones I inherited from dad) and a cory.

I feel so guilty, but shutting down the tanks and giving away the fish would have required even more time and hassle that I couldn't spare, than the minimal maintenance I was able to manage, so I did my best, but I'm sure that those fish passed from my neglect. Dog and parrots didn't get the time and attention they deserved either. We looked after all of them the best we could, and I'm making up for it now, and doing regular small water changes on the two tanks to gradually adjust them back, in case of old tank syndrome, and now moving the furniture so set up the other tanks to transfer them too, will worm them all, and do everything I can to save the remaining fish. There are still a lot, and they deserve more. I'll do my best, and some will be rehomed so I can downsize for now. I already have fine Argos playsand, and some posher fine aquarium sand, plus wood, stone decor etc, and some plants that will hopefully pick up and thrive again, so setting up the tanks should be easy enough.

Getting them set up in better, fresh set ups will be good therapy for me, and it's also a step in sorting, deep cleaning and organising mum and dad's things, and improving the look of the place (a little at least, can't redecorate at this point, which it desperately needs, but can get it looking fresher, cleaner and less cluttered looking at least, one part of the room at a time. Roped my brother into helping - having a tall and reasonably strong (well, more upper body strength than I have, anyway) helper does make a big difference.

 

[Alice B]

I can't listen to mushy emotional music. I grieved, I don't remember a lot of 2018, my helper had to remember which jobs we did what for because I simply have amnesia for a lot of stuff right after that level of loss. So mostly I listen to whatever the classic rock station plays. Def Leppard, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin. I loved my granddaughter, the drunk driver got 14 years for each girl, so 28 years, he's a young man, he'll be about 60 unless he gets out early for something. He contests the verdict annually, I went to court this past July for one of his protest deals, I didn't have to testify, I don't know that I will go again, this is for my daughters to handle. One of the twins went thru my dearly loved silly granddaughter's facebook messages - instead of calling her mother for a ride she messaged on Facebook how scared she was of his driving. Those messages helped get him convicted. He ran a stop sign with a semi coming. Front seat lived back seat died. It was tragic but it is over so I listen to rock and do my work and love the kids that are left and my pets, etc. We do what we can and we move on. But I can't listen to emotional music.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

@Alice B - we all handle grieving in our own ways, absolutely nothing wrong with not being able to listen to emotional music! Classic rock is also amazing, you have great taste in music!

I can't even begin to imagine the kind of grieving you and @Colin_T , and sadly so many others, have gone through and still carry. I'm still reeling from losing my parents, but at least in my case it was part of the natural order of things. Old age, illness, both lived into their 80s, and something we all go through sooner or later. I know how fortunate I am in that regard.

Losing someone close through tragedy, especially at a young age, is a whole other kettle of fish, and I haven't experienced anything so dreadful. But my heart goes out to you both, and I appreciate that you've both kept listening to me and supporting me, even though reading must bring up pain for you too, same goes to @Essjay , @GaryE, @TwoTankAmin and many others who've kept reading, replying, pm-ing and being such amazing sources of wisdom and comfort.

I'm crying now, but in a good way. I'm so grateful. I know this is a fish keeping hobby forum, but after so many years here, you can't help but make friends and get to know people, and sharing here and getting advice and support from people who have willingly taken time out of their lives to offer me that comfort has meant the world. Thank you, so much.

I was fortunate and had a friend who was willing to help me and we simply spent a few hours each day out there cleaning and packing stuff. It took a few months but we got it emptied and cleaned up. If you try and do it all in one hit, you will burn out mentally and physically, and you are already burnt out, so take it easy, do a bit each day and make sure you continue to look after yourself. Good food, (vitamin supplements too), lots of sleep, daily exercise outside with the dog, and keep talking to people like the councellors.

It was tragic but it is over so I listen to rock and do my work and love the kids that are left and my pets, etc. We do what we can and we move on.

These two quotes are so true, and what I'm trying to bear in mind as I wade through all of this. There's so much to do, and so many emotions to process - but both the practical and emotional aspects are both going to need time, a lot of time, to get through, and I can't rush the process. We'll never forget, and shouldn't. But I read somewhere about how we don't stop grieving, we just grow around it and learn to manage it, and remember the good things more.

 

[GaryE]

Music gets me through a lot. I even got through a messy breakup way way back with lots of Hank Williams (the real one) and Patsy Cline. That'll put things in perspective when you have any sort of heartache - whatever you feel, they let you sing a long with worse...

In the early 80s, I went to see an Elvis impersonator bar band when I was out in the woods one weekend (they played 'smoke on the water' every time someone screamed rock and roll, which was often). Their manager was sitting in the corner with this awkward teenaged girl, and I thought he was creepy as could be, and that the situation looked even sketchier. A few years later he married her - Celine Dion. I suspect, though even the next morning memories were already hazy, that Celine and I may have sung Smoke on the Water together.

You have time. Listen to music. Sing along, rap along, howl along. Good things are ahead. It just kind of works out that way.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Music gets me through a lot. I even got through a messy breakup way way back with lots of Hank Williams (the real one) and Patsy Cline. That'll put things in perspective when you have any sort of heartache - whatever you feel, they let you sing a long with worse...

Love both those artists, music I was reared listening to!

In the early 80s, I went to see an Elvis impersonator bar band when I was out in the woods one weekend (they played 'smoke on the water' every time someone screamed rock and roll, which was often). Their manager was sitting in the corner with this awkward teenaged girl, and I thought he was creepy as could be, and that the situation looked even sketchier. A few years later he married her - Celine Dion. I suspect, though even the next morning memories were already hazy, that Celine and I may have sung Smoke on the Water together.

*jaw dropped* Um. Okay. WOW! I love Celine. There was always something creepy about her manager husband, and that makes a horrible kind of sense... but wow, you actually met (and maybe sang with??) Celine Dion?? I don't even know what to say, that's incredible!!

I want to hear all of your stories. You may need to write an autobiography, just for me, even if you don't want to publish. If you don't mind? Ta!

You have time. Listen to music. Sing along, rap along, howl along. Good things are ahead. It just kind of works out that way.

I believe you, I do. I've felt hopeless a few times, you know that better than anyone, but I'm calming down gradually, and getting used to the idea that I don't know what the future holds yet, but that that's okay. It'll be okay, and there will be one, even if I don't know how it will look yet. No one ever really does anyway, do they? We can plan and plan, but no one can predict anything with 100% certainty, and I'm starting to accept that I can get by and get through, and figure things out. Especially with the kind of support and friends I've been lucky enough to make, who help me get my head straight when I need a good talking to.


Thank you.

 

[GaryE]

I didn't meet her, but I believe we brayed drunkenly (well I did, and most of the bar was doing the same) along to Deep Purple, Elvis and some old Quebecois French country (it exists) standards. By the law of averages, I think I can claim a duet, with 30 or 40 backup singers. It's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I am tone deaf, truly, but hey, context.

My grandfather left me a box as my inheritance. It held a shirt, a penknife and 2 45rpm Hank Williams records. I took them home and put them on the turntable, and wham. This was like music from another planet, soundwise, but the lyrics. I still shake my head at them. As I grew older, I understand why those songs, more and more.