Newbie, In Need Of Expertees!

[EX1EY]

Apologies in advance for any daft questions I ask, new to tropical fish and dont want to kill anything so feel its important to get as much info as possible! I've spent the last 24 hours searching through the forum and have learnt a lot, but thought it wouldnt hurt to start a thread in the hope of getting clear answers to specific questions.

Yesterday I acquired a second hand juwel record 120L tank. Ebay £26, bargain?? Or not??

So far I have cleaned the tank with fresh warm water, rinsed the gravel through thoroughly and put it all back in the tank along with fresh water. Heater and filter now running, and light off.

So thats the situation so far, here come the questions.

1. Tank & gravel was previously used for Marine fish - should I really be looking to get new gravel and how thorough does the tank need to be cleaned

2. The only filter I have running at the moment is built in with the tank. Is this sufficient? Im not fmailiar with the mechanics of filters, this is in the back right hand corner of the tank. Its in some sort of casing which when I look into appears to be filled with some kind of small rocks or stones. Is that right? is that enough? Can I supplement the filtration by simply putting a thin layer of sponge over the top of these stones?

3. Should I just invest in a new filter? Are they easy to set up?

5. Does the filter and heater need to be run 24 hours a day? Probably a stupid question, I know,

6. The guy I bought this off said there is a thermostatic heater in the tank..how do i find this? The water is being kept warm so Im trusting that there is, but I cant find it in order to adjust the temp if necessary.

7. I want plants in here, quite a lot. But not too many. Can anybody recommend some nice low maintenance platation? I dont like the background of this tank so i want some big ones at the bank and smaller at the front ideally.

8. Final question but the biggy. I want this to be a community tank with as much variety as I can get in there. I realise I cant just go and buy a full stock and will be introducing new fish into the setup gradually. But can anybody reccommend some easy, hardy, low maintenance fish to start me off. I really really dont want to put anything through any unnecessary discomfort, stress, or worst case, death while Im learning.

Thanks in advance, feel free to add any advice you feel will benefit me, or any products and equipment that will help. Im a complete beginner so anything you can add at all will really help.

**Note** I dont mind fish that will breed, however I dont want my tank over run with huge amounts of offspring - any advice?

 

[EX1EY]

Also just to add, Im on a budget here. I cant afford expensive filters etc.

 

[the_lock_man]

Yesterday I acquired a second hand juwel record 120L tank. Ebay £26, bargain?? Or not?? I'd say it's a bargain

1. Tank & gravel was previously used for Marine fish - should I really be looking to get new gravel and how thorough does the tank need to be cleaned.It depends on what the gravel actually is - if it's an inert gravel it'll be fine, if it's some kind of corally-type stuff (I know nothing about marine) it could have an effect on your pH. It's always a good idea to thoroughly clean everything - you don't know its history at all.

2. The only filter I have running at the moment is built in with the tank. Is this sufficient? Im not fmailiar with the mechanics of filters, this is in the back right hand corner of the tank. Its in some sort of casing which when I look into appears to be filled with some kind of small rocks or stones. Is that right? is that enough? Can I supplement the filtration by simply putting a thin layer of sponge over the top of these stones? I'd guess that the small stones are actually ceramic biomedia. These are very good, they provide lots of space for your bacteria to grow. Sponge will help to remove bits of debris from the water. It should be sufficient for your needs, if it's been built-in by the manufacturer

3. Should I just invest in a new filter? Are they easy to set up?I wouldn't have thought it was necessary. Yes they are.

5. Does the filter and heater need to be run 24 hours a day? Probably a stupid question, I know,Yes to filter. Yes to heater. Yes to stupid..... To qualify that, with the heater it's a "yes" unless you live in the tropics, and the air temp will keep the water at the correct temp.

6. The guy I bought this off said there is a thermostatic heater in the tank..how do i find this? The water is being kept warm so Im trusting that there is, but I cant find it in order to adjust the temp if necessary.The heater will be plugged in to the mains electricity supply. Follow the cable until it ends. Usually heaters are a glass tube with an electrical cable going into one end.

7. I want plants in here, quite a lot. But not too many. Can anybody recommend some nice low maintenance platation? I dont like the background of this tank so i want some big ones at the bank and smaller at the front ideally. Have a look at the Planted Aquariums Resouce Centre, here

8. Final question but the biggy. I want this to be a community tank with as much variety as I can get in there. I realise I cant just go and buy a full stock and will be introducing new fish into the setup gradually. But can anybody reccommend some easy, hardy, low maintenance fish to start me off. I really really dont want to put anything through any unnecessary discomfort, stress, or worst case, death while Im learning. I strongly recommend you read this and then this. This latter link, fishless cycling, will eliminate any discomfort and stress to fish. It will also eliminate discomfort for you. But possibly not stress!

I'm sure you'll have loads more questions. Feel free to post them.

 

[fluttermoth]

to the forum

Sonds like a bargain to me, and a nice size tank for a beginner too; very small tanks are quite difficult to look after and are very limiting when it comes to stocking, so I think you've made a good choice there!

Now, lets see if I can help you with your queries...

1. Salt is not dangerous to most tropical fish, and the amount that's left in the gravel shouldn't cause any problems for you. However, if you think you might like to keep loaches or catfish, like corydoras, in the future, you might want to consider changing to sand (playsand is safe, once it's been washed) now, while the tank is still empty. A good rinse with plenty of clean water is all you need do.

2. The built in filters in Juwel tanks are perfectly good, unless you want large, messy fish. The 'rocks' in there are what the good bacteria grow on. You need the bacteria to keep the water good; they eat the ammonia produced by the fish and turn it into less harmful substances. A layer of sponge or 'filter floss' (looks a bit like cotton wool, easily bought at your local fish shop (LFS) ) is a good idea to filter out any actual particles from the water.

3. I'd stick with the filter you have now to start with.

5. (I don't like the number four either ) Yes, you need to keep the filter and heater running 24/7, unless you're doing your regular water changes.

6. I think the heater in Juwel tanks is in the filter box, but I've never owned one, so am not 100% sure on that.

7. All these plants are good for beginners, and will grow without fertilizers or special lights;
vallisneria; lots of different species, grow tall like grass. The broader leaved ones tend to grow taller than the narrower leaved ones
Java fern and anubias; both easy plants that you attach to rocks or wood with superglue or cotton thread; they will rot if planted in the gravel or sand
Cryptocorynes; again, lots of different species with varying colours and leaf shapes
pygmy chain sword; grow quite low, like a lawn that needs mowing, good for the foreground
Amazon swords; lovely plants, but can get large, so you'd only want one or two

8. The best way to prevent fishy deaths is to do a fishless cycle. This is where you add ammonia to the tank and grow a colony of the good bacteria before adding any fish. This can take a few weeks, but is far safer and less work than doing a fish-in cycle, where you have to do lots of water changes (sometimes twice daily) to stop the fish being poisoned while the bacteria grow.

If you don't want your fish to breed, then steer clear of livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies) or keep only males of those species; females are nearly always already pregnant when you buy them, and can store sperm and produce litters, even when there's no males present.. Nearly all other tropical fish need a separate breeding tank to get any fry, and won't successfully spawn in a community tankl they other fish and even the parents will eat any eggs that are laid.


There are loads of great articles, including one on fishless cycling, in the beginner's resource centre (the link for that is in my sig) and I would suggest you start there and have a read

Hope all that helps, and that I haven't overwhelmed you with info!

 

[EX1EY]

Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. Its very appreciated. Seems like I have started out correctly, and Im happy that the I can use the filter I have already. I do have an undergravel filter aswell but I cant set it up, Im useless and the instructions may aswell be written in japanese.

How many fish can i get comfortably in this tank by the way? Forgot to ask. How difficult are bettas and are they good in community tanks?

 

[robertsskippyj]

Apologies in advance for any daft questions I ask, new to tropical fish and dont want to kill anything so feel its important to get as much info as possible! I've spent the last 24 hours searching through the forum and have learnt a lot, but thought it wouldnt hurt to start a thread in the hope of getting clear answers to specific questions.

Yesterday I acquired a second hand juwel record 120L tank. Ebay £26, bargain?? Or not??

So far I have cleaned the tank with fresh warm water, rinsed the gravel through thoroughly and put it all back in the tank along with fresh water. Heater and filter now running, and light off.

So thats the situation so far, here come the questions.

1. Tank & gravel was previously used for Marine fish - should I really be looking to get new gravel and how thorough does the tank need to be cleaned

2. The only filter I have running at the moment is built in with the tank. Is this sufficient? Im not fmailiar with the mechanics of filters, this is in the back right hand corner of the tank. Its in some sort of casing which when I look into appears to be filled with some kind of small rocks or stones. Is that right? is that enough? Can I supplement the filtration by simply putting a thin layer of sponge over the top of these stones?

3. Should I just invest in a new filter? Are they easy to set up?

5. Does the filter and heater need to be run 24 hours a day? Probably a stupid question, I know,

6. The guy I bought this off said there is a thermostatic heater in the tank..how do i find this? The water is being kept warm so Im trusting that there is, but I cant find it in order to adjust the temp if necessary.

7. I want plants in here, quite a lot. But not too many. Can anybody recommend some nice low maintenance platation? I dont like the background of this tank so i want some big ones at the bank and smaller at the front ideally.

8. Final question but the biggy. I want this to be a community tank with as much variety as I can get in there. I realise I cant just go and buy a full stock and will be introducing new fish into the setup gradually. But can anybody reccommend some easy, hardy, low maintenance fish to start me off. I really really dont want to put anything through any unnecessary discomfort, stress, or worst case, death while Im learning.

Thanks in advance, feel free to add any advice you feel will benefit me, or any products and equipment that will help. Im a complete beginner so anything you can add at all will really help.

**Note** I dont mind fish that will breed, however I dont want my tank over run with huge amounts of offspring - any advice?

Hi and welcome.
I have the a Juwel rio 180 same type filter box etc. The heater is in the filter box next to the pump that circulates the water. there are only 2 things in the box that have power leads coming from them 1 is the pump the other the heater. The heater slids out on a clip vertically and has a decent size thumb screw on the top to adjust the temperature which is graduated with the temperatures. Line up the thumb screw with the temp you want. one thing I would suggest is a good accurate thermometer as me and a couple of local friends have found that to get 25 degrees we have to have the heater set for almost 28. Don't know if others on here have found theirs just as inaccuratly calibrated.

 

[fluttermoth]

Ah, the old 'how many fish' question!

It all depends, you see. Fish vary so much in their size, 'bulkyness' and activity levels, it's very hard to give a definitive answer. Some good guidelines (not 'rules'!) are;
one inch of fish per gallon of water
one cm of fish per two litres
one inch of fish to every 12 square inches of surface area;
but you must bear in mind that these refer only to small (less than three inches), slender bodied, tropical fish. You must use the eventual, adult, size of the fish for any calculations.

Bettas are a bit of a hit and miss in community tank. I wouldn't recommend them; they really do better in small tank of 5 to 10 gallons, with a few small tankmates or on their own.

You wouldn't be able to have any guppies, gouramis, or anything with long, flowing fins if you did have a betta, as the betta would see them as rivals and attack them; there are also a lot of fish that would nip the betta; many tetras and barbs, for instance.

 

[the_lock_man]

Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. Its very appreciated. Seems like I have started out correctly, and Im happy that the I can use the filter I have already. I do have an undergravel filter aswell but I cant set it up, Im useless and the instructions may aswell be written in japanese.

How many fish can i get comfortably in this tank by the way? Forgot to ask. How difficult are bettas and are they good in community tanks?

There are so many variables with stocking that there is no correct answer to the "how many" question. A better bet is for you to post up a suggested stock list or two, and get opinions from there. If there's anything you particularly want, then make sure you say what your priorities are, and people will work around them.

Bettas are easy enough to keep, I have one in a 34l with a few chilli rasboras, and it works fine. Your tank is on the higher limits for a betta, IMHO, I feel they prefer smaller tanks, as they are solitary fish naturally. Some will not tolerate any tank-mates at all, others are as docile as anything, and will get along with (pretty much) anything. My first one was in a 65l, with various other species, and was happy as Larry. When he went, my next one hated the Cardinal Tetras, and I had to move him to the 34l.

 

[EX1EY]

This is good stuff, many thanks.

Im still not confident around the filter situation, it just doesnt look right to me for some reason. If I take some photos when i get in from work and put them on would someone mind taking a quick look?

To start with I was thinking about having around 5 male guppies & 5 neon tetras. Is there any other type that will get along happily with these, preferablya bigger species that doesnt need too much company

cheers

 

[fluttermoth]

This is good stuff, many thanks.

Im still not confident around the filter situation, it just doesnt look right to me for some reason. If I take some photos when i get in from work and put them on would someone mind taking a quick look?

Of course; we have a lot of Juwel owners round here, so someone will be able to advise you

To start with I was thinking about having around 5 male guppies & 5 neon tetras. Is there any other type that will get along happily with these, preferablya bigger species that doesnt need too much company

cheers

Neons don't do well in new tanks, for some reason, even if they've been fully cycled (I do hope you'll do a fishless cycle!)
What's your water like? Just if it's hard or soft; different fish like different waters, and it's easier to recommend species if we know how hard the water is

 

[the_lock_man]

Yeah, upload a photo, someone is bound to be able to answer any query.

If you want guppies, I think a betta would be out of the question - the guppies' tails look too much like another betta, and unless he's the dippiest betta on the block, he'll attack them. There are some forum members here who have had success mixing the two, but IMHO, it's too risky.

Instead, you could probably go for dwarf gourami, bolivian rams, one of the apistogramma species (cacatuoides and hongsloi are my favourties, but agassizi and borelli are also nice), possibly killifish as well (not too sure on the last one, do a bit more research on those).

And I'd go for 8 neons (they like to be in a group of at least 6, but the more the better) - however, bear in mind Flutter's advice on these. There are plenty of other shoaling species that you could go for instead. You could have a really nice group of 10-12 Celestial Pear Danios (seriously tiny fish, these)

 

[EX1EY]

This is good stuff, many thanks.

Im still not confident around the filter situation, it just doesnt look right to me for some reason. If I take some photos when i get in from work and put them on would someone mind taking a quick look?

Of course; we have a lot of Juwel owners round here, so someone will be able to advise you

To start with I was thinking about having around 5 male guppies & 5 neon tetras. Is there any other type that will get along happily with these, preferablya bigger species that doesnt need too much company

cheers

Neons don't do well in new tanks, for some reason, even if they've been fully cycled (I do hope you'll do a fishless cycle!)
What's your water like? Just if it's hard or soft; different fish like different waters, and it's easier to recommend species if we know how hard the water is

I am doing a fishless cycle, not planning on putting anything in their until its perfect or as near as #41#### it. The water where I live is pretty soft and last time I checked the PH right out of the tap for something else it was around 6. I would like a few schools (is that right) of fish in their of different species so I'd like to start like that to bein with. Along side one or two bigger but non aggressive fish. I did want a siamese fighting fish in their but after reading I think the tank might be a little big and I dont want it munching away at everything with a nice coulourful tail!

 

[the_lock_man]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to get a second small tank, just for the fighter.........

Anyway, leave a cup of tapwater to stand for 24 hours, and then test its pH, it allows any CO2 to clear, and return the pH to its "proper" level.

 

[EX1EY]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to get a second small tank, just for the fighter.........

Anyway, leave a cup of tapwater to stand for 24 hours, and then test its pH, it allows any CO2 to clear, and return the pH to its "proper" level.

I was thinking that too, I'll get this one up and running and then probably look at other tanks in the new year. Out of interest if I have live bearing fish in the tank, will they just run rampant. For example if i mix male and female guppies, are they going to breed like craxy and over load my tank???

 

[fluttermoth]

I am doing a fishless cycle, not planning on putting anything in their until its perfect or as near as #41#### it.

Ah, now you've made us very happy

The water where I live is pretty soft and last time I checked the PH right out of the tap for something else it was around 6. I would like a few schools (is that right) of fish in their of different species so I'd like to start like that to bein with. Along side one or two bigger but non aggressive fish. I did want a siamese fighting fish in their but after reading I think the tank might be a little big and I dont want it munching away at everything with a nice coulourful tail!

Great; there are more soft water fish than hard
Two shoals (schools are slightly different; it means all the fish swimming in a co-ordinated way, most tropical fish don't school unless they're scared or feel threatened; the neons I have in my bedroom tank school when my son slams his bedroom door, lol!) of different coloured tetras or rasboras and either dwarf cichlids or one of the smaller gouramis would work well and look nice.

Best if, at some point, you have a good look around your LFS and make a note of anything you particularly like the look of, then you can work your stocking around that.