My cycling update thread...

[Essjay]

You are getting there.
Hopefully your new plants will take up a lot of the next dose of ammonia so there won't be as much nitrite made as with an unplanted tank.

 

[Rocky998]

My nitrites are 0 now!! Should I add the ammonia or wait a day?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Is ammonia at 0ppm as well?

How many times have you added full ammonia doses?

If 4-5 times then would add full dosage of ammonia to 3ppm and test again in 24 hours, if both ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm in or under 24 hours, you’re cycled!

 

[Rocky998]

Is ammonia at 0ppm as well?

How many times have you added full ammonia doses?

If 4-5 times then would add full dosage of ammonia to 3ppm and test again in 24 hours, if both ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm in or under 24 hours, you’re cycled!

Ive been waiting for nitrites to go to 0 so I can start adding the 3ppm ammonia doses... Ive done 2 full doses and 1 snack dose... I'll add in a full dose today and it'll probably take 1 and a half days for ammonia to go to 0...

 

[Rocky998]

Is ammonia at 0ppm as well?

Yes it is

 

[Ch4rlie]

Well, you’re very nearly there!

It’s when you have successfully achieved zero ammonia and zero nitrite in consecutive 24 hour periods is when the cycle is completed.

Don’t forgot once you have confirmed that tank is cycled, do as close as to 100% water change, this gets rid of all the nitrate that will have been generated and resets the water parameters to healthy levels before adding livestock.

 

[Rocky998]

Well, you’re very nearly there!

It’s when you have successfully achieved zero ammonia and zero nitrite in consecutive 24 hour periods is when the cycle is completed.

Don’t forgot once you have confirmed that tank is cycled, do as close as to 100% water change, this gets rid of all the nitrate that will have been generated and resets the water parameters to healthy levels before adding livestock.

Ok! Thanks!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Much inaccurate info in this thread

The bacteria are photosensitive as are the archaea, but the latter are moreso. Why are filters not made of clear materials- they are tinted or even solid colors.

To whomever asked for the science: on the bacteria being photosensitive:

Merbt, S.N., Stahl, D.A., Casamayor, E.O., Martí, E., Nicol, G.W. and Prosser, J.I. (2012), Differential photoinhibition of bacterial and archaeal ammonia oxidation. FEMS Microbiol Lett, 327: 41-46. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1574-6968.2011.02457.x
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...sential+maintenance&userIsAuthenticated=false

Lu, S., Liu, X., Liu, C. et al. Influence of photoinhibition on nitrification by ammonia-oxidizing microorganisms in aquatic ecosystems. Rev Environ Sci Biotechnol 19, 531–542 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11157-020-09540-2
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11157-020-09540-2

Abstract​

Photoinhibition of ammonia oxidation occurs widely in aquatic environments and could suppress the nitrification rate, lead to the composition variation of inorganic nitrogen and influence the stability of aquatic ecosystems. Both ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and archaea are sensitive to light. The extent of photoinhibition and the time required for recovery depend on light wavelength, intensity, photon quantity and strains. Strong evidence indicates that photoinhibition in AOB by visible light is mainly caused by irreversible damage to ammonia monooxygenase (AMO) and the degradation of AMO is beneficial to AOB recovery. This review discusses photoinhibition in metabolic pathways used by ammonia oxidizers.

These are just two papers. there are many more if needed.

Also as an FYI- the biggest cause of stalled cycles is too much nitrite. The main cause of too much nitrite is dosing too much ammonia- either from the amount added, the frequency with which it is added or both.

The fishless cycling article here is dirt simple and easy to follow. It is way less complicated than cycling with fish. It was based loosely on Dr. Hovanec's method (I corresponded with him years ago on this topic.). But he is a scientist, he uses the nitrogen scale and his method will often require one to do diluted testing for nitrite. The method here, if followed to the letter, cannot produce enough nitrite to stall the cycle.

Last piece of info re fishless cycling- this has been around since the mid 1900s. In late 2001 I cycled my second (and all subsequent tanks) fislessly using household ammonia. I begn using ammonium chloride about a decade later.
https://www.cpp.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html
https://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm

 

[Rocky998]

Much inaccurate info in this thread

The bacteria are photosensitive as are the archaea, but the latter are moreso. Why are filters not made of clear materials- they are tinted or even solid colors.

To whomever asked for the science: on the bacteria being photosensitive:

Merbt, S.N., Stahl, D.A., Casamayor, E.O., Martí, E., Nicol, G.W. and Prosser, J.I. (2012), Differential photoinhibition of bacterial and archaeal ammonia oxidation. FEMS Microbiol Lett, 327: 41-46. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1574-6968.2011.02457.x
https/onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1574-6968.2011.02457.x?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+24+March+from+10-14+GMT+(06-10+EDT)+for+essential+maintenance&userIsAuthenticated=false

Lu, S., Liu, X., Liu, C. et al. Influence of photoinhibition on nitrification by ammonia-oxidizing microorganisms in aquatic ecosystems. Rev Environ Sci Biotechnol 19, 531–542 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11157-020-09540-2
https/link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11157-020-09540-2



These are just two papers. there are many more if needed.

Also as an FYI- the biggest cause of stalled cycles is too much nitrite. The main cause of too much nitrite is dosing too much ammonia- either from the amount added, the frequency with which it is added or both.

The fishless cycling article here is dirt simple and easy to follow. It is way less complicated than cycling with fish. It was based loosely on Dr. Hovanec's method (I corresponded with him years ago on this topic.). But he is a scientist, he uses the nitrogen scale and his method will often require one to do diluted testing for nitrite. The method here, if followed to the letter, cannot produce enough nitrite to stall the cycle.

Last piece of info re fishless cycling- this has been around since the mid 1900s. In late 2001 I cycled my second (and all subsequent tanks) fislessly using household ammonia. I begn using ammonium chloride about a decade later.
https://www.cpp.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html
https://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm

So wait... Am I doing well or really bad? Now I'm very confused

 

[Rocky998]

I need to add the 3ppm of ammonia today... So I'll do that...

 

[Rocky998]

Just added it!

 

[Ch4rlie]

So wait... Am I doing well or really bad? Now I'm very confused

You’re doing fine now, TTA is merely pointing out some of the inaccurate information that’s been posted on this thread early on.

Mostly about the photosensitivity in bacteria hence TTA linking the science papers backing this up. Must admit I have very, very little idea about this side of things

Also he is correct to point out that the main cause of cycling failure is down to too high a number of PPM for nitrite, this in a nutshell overwhelms the bacterias and stalls the cycling which is basically can be caused by either adding too much ammonia or adding ammonia too often, this is why we advise dosing no more than 3ppm ammonia at the required stages, no more, which is basically a foolproof way of ensuring the nitrite never peaks too high.
(less ammonia dosages is needed if it’s a very low bioloded tank i.e shrimps only set up in a 5 gal or less tank for example so 1ppm ammonia is adequate in this case.)

 

[Rocky998]

You’re doing fine now, TTA is merely pointing out some of the inaccurate information that’s been posted on this thread early on.

Mostly about the photosensitivity in bacteria hence TTA linking the science papers backing this up. Must admit I have very, very little idea about this side of things

Also he is correct to point out that the main cause of cycling failure is down to too high a number of PPM for nitrite, this in a nutshell overwhelms the bacterias and stalls the cycling which is basically can be caused by either adding too much ammonia or adding ammonia too often, this is why we advise dosing no more than 3ppm ammonia at the required stages, no more, which is basically a foolproof way of ensuring the nitrite never peaks too high.
(less ammonia dosages is needed if it’s a very low bioloded tank i.e shrimps only set up in a 5 gal or less tank for example so 1ppm ammonia is adequate in this case.)

What should I do if my cycle finishes before my vacation?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Would just add snack dose of ammonia just before you leave, 1ppm.

This will help keep the bacteria ticking over and will be fine but otherwise they will simply go dormant when ammonia has stopped or at very low levels, bacteria will survive for a long time under the right conditions, so 2 - 3weeks will not be a problem at all

Once ammonia source returns to water column simply by adding another ‘snack’ dose or adding livestock after a large water change, the bacteria will simply ‘awake’ from their dormant state.

 

[Rocky998]

Would just add snack dose of ammonia just before you leave, 1ppm.

This will help keep the bacteria ticking over and will be fine but otherwise they will simply go dormant when ammonia has stopped or at very low levels, bacteria will survive for a long time under the right conditions, so 2 - 3weeks will not be a problem at all

Once ammonia source returns to water column simply by adding another ‘snack’ dose or adding livestock after a large water change, the bacteria will simply ‘awake’ from their dormant state.

Ok, good to know! Thanks!