listlessness... getting worse... tips please

[crankwalk]

My boy Trevor has been in a heated, 2.5g unfiltered tank while his 3gal eclipse is cycling for the past few weeks (this is an upgrade from his 1/2 gal, unheated bowl that he was in when he was first given to me as a gift). Currently there is nothing in his tank except the heater and thermometer, and I "turkey baste" any visible waste out immediately. 100% water changes weekly. I just recently obtained a Freshwater Master Test Kit and have tested his water for PH, which is around 7.8-8.0 a little high but he has been okay since his arrival over 3 months ago when I use dechlorniated tap water.

For the past 4-5 days he has been acting listless and it has been getting worse. At first it started, I believe, due to constipation. I noticed his abdomen was getting swollen after about the 3rd day of listlessness, and I fed him a pea.. the next day he went to the bathroom twice, and there were large clumps of waste at the bottom of the tank. I got them out quickly and fasted him that day (it was yesterday). Tested his water today and it was at .25ppm ammonia. I just gave him a 100% water change a few hours ago, added enough aquarium salt for 2 gallons (even though he is in a 2.5, just so I don't overdo it) and made sure his temp is at 80 degrees. he is still laying at the bottom of the tank, occasionally coming up for air. he doesn't seem to be struggling to do anything, he will swim around sometimes (but not dart) and then he just settles back down to the bottom. Fins are clamped as he lays at the bottom but when he swims they look alright. I have not noticed discoloration, or the dreaded "pine cone" scales. his fins don't look shredded.. he just looks normal but looks extremely bored.. i haven't seen a bubble nest in at least two weeks :\

i'm getting worried about him and i've tried everything i could. even though his listlessness has gone on for a few days, he didn't refuse food today (only gave him two hikari bio-gold pellets in case he is still slightly constipted)

i have bettafix on hand but am trying to hold off using it.

any tips? thanks in advance.

*edited topic description to reflect new pictures*

 

[sandig]

If you think he is constipated you can offer a cooked pea. Just take the skin off and offer pieces to him.....they love peas!

Hope this helps
Sandi

 

[OrkyBetta]

Yep, cook a pea in a dixie cup in the microwave with some tank water, for about 20 seconds. pop the pea out of the skin, and pull it in half (you know how peas are in 2 pieces naturally) and cut it with your fingernail or a knife into tiny 'betta bite sized' pieces. If no luck with that, fast him for a day and try the pea again.

 

[crankwalk]

Thanks guys but I already tried the pea remedy two days ago, it fixed his constipation and his abdomen went down to its normal size. I just checked on him this morning and he is still listless and occasionally floating still near the top. Any type of movement used to make him active, especially if he thought he was getting food. Now when I walk by or come up to his tank he just sits there doing nothing. :\

I have some pictures of him -- see below

His face / gills looks splotchy I know, but that's what they've always looked like, the camera flash exaggerates it -- I see no change in his body color, and I have shined a flashlight on him to look for gold dustings.. none. I don't see any cottony substance on his scales either. The only thing different about him is the clamped fins and listlessness.

I also added a little bettafix to the water this morning also. I followed the dosage on the bottle (one teaspoon per gallon, so added two teaspoons as to not overdo it) but will not be adding any more because I know those directions are not the best when they say to keep dosing daily for 7 days and not change the water.

Anybody see anything that I may be missing?

 

[crankwalk]

Well I just got home and Trevor started swimming around when I came in the door. He had been laying at the bottom because I eyeballed him as soon as I cracked open the door. I noticed some waste at the bottom.. i hesitate to say that it was white and stringy.. it looked more yellow/greenish and i believe it was the remnants of the pea i gave him a couple of days ago but it did look a bit stringy. His first trip to the bathroom after the pea left his waste looking similar.. but this time it was a very small amount. I fed him three hikari betta bio gold pellets and will keep watching him i guess. Next trip to the bathroom he should be passing pellets and no more pea so I'll keep an eye. If anyone has any other advice.. (i hope he doesn't have internal parasites) let me know thanks.

 

[crankwalk]

Well, I checked on him this morning and he was still laying at the bottom. He swam up to look at me when I walked over but then he settled back at the bottom after a couple of minutes.

I don't know what else to try -- does anyone notice anything in the pictures above that I am missing? he is definitely not his old self. I would put him back in his bowl (he used to blow the big bubble nests in there) but there is no way to heat it so that is out of the question.

Could he just be really bored? maybe he needs gravel and a hidey hole? i have no clue.

only thing i can think of now is -- internal parasites... any way to check for those?

plz help Trevor! any tips are greatly appreciated. i think i've tried just about everything that is common...

*edit* this couldn't be the beginning stages of dropsy could it? his abdomen has gone back to its normal size after passing the pea.... i'm so worried *edit*

 

[eudielynn]

His pictures don't show any outward signs of illness and since he is eating and pooing, things seem to be going okay there. I wouldn't try any more meds unless you are sure what the problem is. His fins do look a little clamped like something is bothering him.

I would try either putting something in his tank to stimulate him such as a plant or cave. Sometimes they do get bored/depressed. It could also be that he is unhappy in a larger tank. As strange as it may seem some bettas do not do well when they are upgraded. They are content and secure in a smaller bowl and do not like the change. You might try the smaller bowl again. Even without the heater, he may be more content there.

BettaMomma started having problems with her Amos when she upgraded him to a larger tank. He became stressed out with the move and eventually died due to illnesses he developed as a result of the stress.

Keep us posted on him.

 

[crankwalk]

Thank you for taking a look at the pictures, eudielynn. I do remember reading about BettaMomma's tank upgrade but I thought that had to do with the fact that her Betta was fighting a current. If I can find a way to heat his small bowl I may try that again. I will be sure to post any updates. Next time he goes to the bathroom I will check closely for white stringiness. It is true, his appetite has not decreased! hehe.

 

[Seahorse]

Maybe he is just one bored betta? Is he getting any stimulation, from a neighbor, or perhaps a mirror?

 

[crankwalk]

He's gotten much worse in the course of one day. I went to Boston today on a business trip and left early in the morning. He was at the bottom in the dark but then again it was 5AM. He swam up to say goodbye when i turned on the light. When I came home about 30 minutes ago, he was at the bottom, pretty motionless and is very PALE now.. his color has gone from deep red to a very pale shade of red. And his two little fins on either side of his body, that he "flaps" to swim with.. are just straight out to either side of him not tucked into his body like they usually are.. like he's just too tired to hold them in. he only comes up to the top for air and then goes RIGHT back down to the bottom. sometimes he just slowly sinks.

and he refused food for the first time today its almost like he couldn't see the pellets but he didn't want to come up when i was dropping them in anyways. at one point he came up but he swam around all the pellets.

I've just done a 100% water change and added a full dose of aquarium salt and a full dose of bettafix (one teaspoon of each) for two gallons of water. i also dechlorinated the water with stress coat. i am just letting it sit for about 30 min so everything dissolves. i've raised the temp from 80 to 82, so it should get there in about an hour. right now he's sitting in his cup that he came from the store in. he's like "attacking" the water at the top where it meets air, and sometimes bubbles come out of his gills - although i've seen him do that before but not as much as right now. i don't know what else to do! these new symptoms.. can anyone help?

any advice would be much appreciated.. is it time to try a stronger medicine? i don't even have a clue what he might have

 

[BettaMomma]

I would say it's internal parasites, almost definitely.

Crank up his temp to about 84 degrees - turn it up slowly.
I know you probably won't be able to get any meds until tomorrow morning, but pick up some Maracyn 2 and also see if you can find some medicated food. He might not feel like eating, so the medicated food might be out of the question, but definitely get some maracyn 2...

For a 2.5G tank (which I think I might leave him in just so you don't have to move him and disturb him - he should be okay w/out a filter in there) you will need to give him 1/2 a tablet on the first day, and then 1/4 tablet on the next 4 days. Crush up the tablet and put it in a small solo or dixie cup with a little tank water to dissolve.

Good luck with him.

 

[sandig]

Gosh it must be so hard to watch him deteriorate without knowing what is wrong. I recently went through this and I hope he shows some symptoms soon.

You may want to lower the water level so he can get to the top easier for air. I hesitate to tell you to use an antibiotic if you don't see any signs of infection but he may have some strange infection on the inside?

I am sure someone more knowledgeable will contribute soon. Hang in there.
Sandi

 

[crankwalk]

thank you BettaMomma and sandiq for the advice...

I was afraid of internal parasites ever since this whole thing started, since he was listless but showing no other symptoms. Oh when I came home, he had gone to the bathroom and i basted it out -- it wasn't white and stringy, isn't that the symptom for internal parasites, or could he have them and his waste be fine? it is brown and round just like the pellets i feed him. sorry for the gross detail.

Yes tomorrow morning I will make a run out to the store, unfortunately it being past midnight, nothing is open. My flight was SOOOO delayed by over three hours, if it was on time I could have got home before the stores closed. BAH.

By the way, I have only put two gallons of water in his 2.5g this time. It was just easier to dose the aquarium salt and bettafix that way since its a teaspoon of each for two gallons. So the water level is a little lower as well.

BettaMomma, for two gallons will the Maracyn dose you recommendend change, as opposed to if he was in his full 2.5g?

Oh yeah last comment.. when he was in his cup i put some food in just a second ago.. he was acting less blind and managed to eat two pellets because they were floating right by his face in the shallow water. I may have to try that method to get him to eat medicated food :\

thank you everyone for your help... *sigh* this is tough

 

[BettaMomma]

You will want to remove a bit of the crushed tablet before you put it into the cup to dissolve - try to take approximately 1/5 of it out, if you can. If it's not exact it won't be terrible.

One thing about the eating - had you just switched on the light earlier possibly?
Some of my fish get sort of "Blinded" when I just turn on the light and they sort of swim around blindly before they can find their food.

As for the poo - white and stringy is a bad sign, but yeah they can have the start of parasites even if their poo isn't like that. What you're describing sounds like it was from the peas.

Is he in his cup to stay or just temporarily?
I'd put him back into the bigger tank for treatment. He'll be okay in there. Make sure you have a plant in there where he can beach himself up near the top of the water for easier access to air.

Should you go for the medicated food, Pepso food (I believe it's called) by Jungle should be available to you. Otherwise you can ask someone at the store.

Not sure where you're planning to go, but you'll wanna go to a lfs or petsmart, petco, etc. to get the maracyn2 as places like walmart and such don't carry it. Just wanted to save you a trip if you happen to be thinking of going there.

 

[crankwalk]

Yes I had just switched the light on actually. The whole house was dark since i had been away all day. That makes sense but i've never seen that happen.. usually when i turn the light on he's very alert and looking for food. But then again since he had been in the dark for a good while.. who knows.

I don't have a plant but I just checked on him (he's back in his 2.5g now) and he had "beached" himself on part of the suction cup that holds his heater on. sometimes he used to sleep there when he was well also, and its not near the hot part so he should be okay with that.

I was just planning to go to the LFS, as i've never seen pepso food in the regular stores (petco, petsmart) although petsmart lists it on their website. If the LFS doesn't have something, the petco is a 10 second drive down the street from it. Thank you for the advice about Wal*Mart though..

Well, internal parasites would explain it.. I feel a little better with a course of action now, I hope its ONLY that and he gets better fast.. I will be sure to post updates

I really appreciate the advice from all