How To Euthanize... :(

[FBF]

out of curisosity, is it legal to euthanise mammals, or do you hAVE to go to the vet?
with these new laws coming in about fish welfare etc. maybe something on euthanisation will come up?

i dont know about mammals these are fish....

as for your 'theroy' that the clove oil method isnt painful i have to ask you how you know this? its a guess isnt it? we cannot possibly know if the fish feels pain.

 

[clareriley]

catch the fish in the net and wack the net off the side of the tank..

within 10 seconds of being in the net its dead.

I understand how some people may have an issue with this method but its the quickets least painfull and easyest method

Wow I couldnt do this. I have done it once. I sed a very large lump hammer.. in tissue and then buried it.. It was horrible and I hope I never have to do it again.

out of curisosity, is it legal to euthanise mammals, or do you hAVE to go to the vet?
with these new laws coming in about fish welfare etc. maybe something on euthanisation will come up?

In england it isnt legal no. You have to go to a qualified vet although I know alot of fatmers eithanize there own as they have the knowledge. it is a form of cruelty as it can often go very wrong.

 

[OohFeeshy]

as for your 'theroy' that the clove oil method isnt painful i have to ask you how you know this? its a guess isnt it? we cannot possibly know if the fish feels pain.

The entire point is, clove oil is an anasthetic (however you spell it), overdose of an anesthetic will result in going to sleep, then death. Whilst decapitation/hitting on the head is indeed easy, it can be pretty hard to ensure you actually hit them, and it's stressful taking them out of the water. With clove oil, you use tank water, meaning far less stress even in that area.

 

[acid-e]

i also do estuary fishing in australia, we catch live greenback herring and mullet as bait

when i freeze them in the end for dead bait i grab behind the eyes and give a quick hard sqeeze and the fish will have passed on in 2 seconds

 

[zig]

This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:

Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.

Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.

I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.

Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous

SH

Ok i just had to do this, thanks for the information SH, i would say after about 10-15 seconds the fish (platy with columnaris) was totally motionless and basically was dead, i had been treating this fish for a few days with maracyn but the fish was past reviving and just got worse, the fish was a pitiful sight in the end, it was definatly better to put it out of its misery.

Basically i just got a small bowl and filled it with lots of icecubes and some water, threw some dechlor in for good measure, left it sit for 5 minutes to get nice and cold and then placed the fish in the bowl, like i say it was all over in about 10-15 seconds, i think its a very good humane method, thats why im bumping the thread.

RIP Platy.........thanks SH

 

[steelhealr]

No problem. Many people are posting here that they like the oil of cloves because it is an 'anesthetic' and that the fish 'goes to sleep'. I reiterate that it is a TOPICAL anesthetic and may reduce pain but MAY NOT induce unconsciousness in the fish, ie, paralyzed and aware. The oil may initially burn, coat the gills, topically stop pain, but, I am not convinced that it causes rapid unconsciousness. I think of it as paralysis and suffocation. This is my opinion. There have been no studies to my knowledge that test for cessation of heart or brain function during euthanasia

I will say that rapid deep hypothermia and oil of cloves BOTH cause death. It is just my medical opinion that the former is more rapid and more convincing to me that it brings on unconsciousness. SH

 

[boxman]

I've found no easy way to euthenaise a fish. The fastest way without a doubt is putting it straight in boiling water but I really REALLY wouldn't recommend this, I did it once (in my inexperience) and felt SO bad but the fish was definately dead within 2 seconds at most.

I've not tried this but my LFS puts the fish in a plastic bag with the usual amount of water you'd expect to take it home in and put it in a freezer (possibly a deep freeze), apparently they die very quickly due to the atmospheric change - as I say, I've not tried this but I'm sure my LFS knows what they're talking about as it is also a public aquarium.

 

[pete0403]

TTT for my opinion...

I just tried the clove oil method for the first time last night.

By what I read on these forums I thought it was peaceful and painless. I now refuse to believe that this is a painless method due to the frantic struggling and gasping of my fish for the 10 - 15 seconds it took him to die (or appear to be dead).

Those of you that have used clove oil know how strong it is and how pungent the odour is, next time you use it, dip your finger in the clove oil/water and stick it in your eye. I guarantee that nobody would want to do this so why subject your fish's entire body to it, even if it is for only a few seconds.

I know I'm just a noob but now I know that clove oil not peaceful or painless. I wish I never even came across the method in these forums.

edit: I just came across this method which uses hardly any clove oil at all and seems like the best way to not kill with clove oil but rather use it as an anasthetic like it was meant to be used.

http/www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-h...nize-a-fish.htm

 

[WILDER]

Sadly there is no nice way of doing it.
But i would rather have pain for 10 to 15 seconds over days.
Plus i had to watch my mum die of cancer and that was awful, so lets get things into propective.

 

[KingKenny]

It an immensely hard thing to do isn't it? I have been interested in the methods used discussed in this thread.

Haven't had to Euthanise for a very long time but years ago I would take the fish out, lay them genthy on a towell and then hit them with a hard sild object bigger than their body. They would essentially be crushed in a fraction of a second and this, imho, minimises pain. There is no possibility of a fish surviving even one strike and death is immediate/outright.

I don't think I could bare the clove oil/vodka method though.

 

[Bloo]

I have (luckily) rarely had to dispose of a fish. I've twice used clove oil and can honestly say there was not a single sign of resistance. The fish were so weak it didn't even take 30 second for them to have no gill movement whatsoever. No struggle nothing.

However, that said I will use Steelhealr's method next time.

 

[pete0403]

I'll post this again quickly since I only edited my post above

http/www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-h...nize-a-fish.htm

I believe maybe I used too much clove oil. I don't know but if I ever have to do this again, I'll either get an anasthetic from work or try the the above method. I wish I had seen this before last night

 

[steelhealr]

Why I choose not to use oil of cloves:

In addition, analgesic properties of eugenol are unknown." Am J Vet Res 2001;62:337-342.

Since fish are cold-blooded, the brain can continue to function for a long time even after the heart and lungs have ceased functioning. Therefore it is possible for fish to recover from deep anaesthesia even if they are apparently dead because they are not breathing and have no heart beat. It can be very difficult to determine if a fish is dead, therefore, once the fish is deeply anaesthetized by leaving it in the solution for a couple of hours, it is recommended to freeze the fish, decapitate it or administer a sharp blow to the head to ensure it does not recover from anaesthesia.

Clove oil-Because adequate and appropriate clinical trials have not been performed on fish to evaluate it's effect, the use of oil of cloves is not acceptable.

Report of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Panel on Euthanasia.

 

[fish mad]

so your saying someone beating you slowly to death is the quickest and easiest method?

Use clove oil as for the vodka take it yourself before hand to give you the courage.

 

[FBF]

Those of you that have used clove oil know how strong it is and how pungent the odour is, next time you use it, dip your finger in the clove oil/water and stick it in your eye. I guarantee that nobody would want to do this so why subject your fish's entire body to it, even if it is for only a few seconds.

yep thats how i would see it too. it MUST sting at best

been an intresting thread this one.