House Cats

[Synirr]

Feral cat colonies are frequently arranged like a tiny lion pride, actually, with one or two dominant toms and a harem of females. Not that other arrangements don't exist in abundance, of course, just pointing out that sometimes they actually are a little like lions, in a way. You can find feral cats in all types of colony systems, or solitary.

As for having multiple cats, it really depends on the cats. Back at home, we have one old cranky ladycat who would love nothing more than to be without other cats! She was raised with another kitten her age and everything, so lack of socialization with other cats isn't the problem, she's just annoyed by every other cat she has ever met. Some cats are social, some are not. None of the cats back home have ever been able to tolerate one-another, despite our painstaking efforts to introduce them properly. Usually it's a situation where one cat likes the other, but the other hates it

 

[K.J.]

'Kay.. I said I was done but I have to argue.

in my experiences with over a dozen cats of my own, other people's cats, and the horrific feral cat problem plaguing my small college town--cats are social creatures. yes, they are territorial and enjoy their solitude, but that doesn't mean that they don't need interaction with other cats or surrogates. explain away the feral cat colonies existing in most major cities; those cats live in groups of their own volition, not because they are forced to do so. i'm not saying that cats are social in the same sense as dogs (pack animals) are, but cats need other cats around for stimulus.

I'm sorry but... this is in no way, true. We had an adult cat when I got my first kitten - the older cat immediatly disliked the kitten and usually ended up snarling at her and avoiding her until the kitten got older. The kitten grew up with the adult cat only socializing briefly with her for another four years, when I got another kitten. The same thing happened with both. In fact, my first kitten and my older cat ATTACKED her quite frequently. If you have a lone cat, yes, you do need to spend time with it, but if you have two, you need TWICE the time for both of them because if they aren't too friendly they will avoid the other cat at all costs, period.

And at cat shows, it's extremely frequent for the cats to hiss at each other. I've seen events where the cats will actually provoce themselves to attack. So, it matters on the cat, but the more likely awnser is if you have an adult cat, you bring in an adult cat or a kitten, they WILL hate them no matter what.

 

[wodesorel]

You should never bring in a lone kitten to a house with a single or sometimes more, adult cat(s). It's called being annoying. Kitten like to play non-stop for 24 hours a day. Imagine your little sister/brother/neice/nephew/neighbor bugging you to play for 24 hours every day. You'd hate them, too.

Not only that, but unless you introduce them properly and over a period of at least a week, it's what happens. You just can't throw a new cat in the door and tell the one who owns your home "tough luck!". It's an invasion of your cat's territory - of his home, you, and his food.

Any cat can be taught to live with another cat peacefully, but it takes a little bit of time, patience, and some basic understanding of a cats' nature.

And again, take a look at the pictures I posted earlier - introduced as adults AND kittens and they love each other. Not related, never been with each other before. Cats LIKE to be with other cats.

 

[liserini]

I introduced an adult male cat - Fluffy, to my other two adult cats (male - Pudding and female - Blossom) at first there was some resistance between them, gradually Blossom stopped caring about Fluffy being there, it's been over a year now and Pudding still gets annoyed by Fluffys personality, I think that's because Pudding is used to being the alpha male and doesn't like the fact that Fluffy might usurp his position in the household!

 

[Synirr]

You absolutely cannot generalize here, that's all I'm gonna say. Whether or not a cat is social should be determined on a cat-to-cat basis. "Cats are social" is just as invalid a statement as "cats are solitary", because not all cats are either. Even cat rescue groups can recognize when they have individuals that would do better as an only cat. Feral cats exist both in colonies and as solitary individuals, if that tells you anything.

 

[LouiseRat]

Hi, if any of you guys keep house cats, why do you?

Thanks

we have 3 house cats

they dont go out because

1 - when we first got them we lived in a 4th storey flat and it was dangerous to let them out
2 one of our cats is a persian and his fur by his pads gives him sores if he walks on concrete
3 main road near us
4 dogs , too many chavs with staffys around setting them on cats

our cats dont look to go out , have loads of room to run around and play , and are very very happy

 

[KathyM]

Sorry to do this in quotes, but I've been ill and didn't see this attack til now. It all needs answering and doing it in quotes makes it clear what bits of rubbish I'm answering specifically.

So you can maybe understand why I choose to keep my cats safe, healthy and happy - what others do with their cats is completely up to them. I just find it funny (haha) that people would suggest people who keep their cats indoors are neglecting them (or their happiness), when really in my case I'm protecting them. They're happy, healthy and will hopefully live much longer lives than their predecessors here. There's nothing missing from their lives.

Cats are meant to be outdoors, just because your cat dosen't say hes having a bad time dosen't mean he's having a good time, do you think he is happy sleeping for 12 hours a day and wandering at home doing nothing?

Absolutely not, which is why I spend hours every day keeping them mentally and physically stimulated, as you'd know if you'd read my post thoroughly.

In nature they would hunt during that time, mark territory, and explore, and read scent marking by other cats. So unless you can give them those needs I don't think you should have a cat at all! Its like saying You have a 10 gallon tank, but you really want an Oscar, so even though you can't care for the oscar, you still get him, just because you want him.

I do provide these things for my cats, with one exception, the territory marking (as my cats are neutered as is good for them).

My cat has area to explore, at least 1 acre, more if he goes into more peoples yards that I know of (if he does, then he has a huge area to explore!), I never get worried about him, even though only a couple days ago I heard him fighting another cat and I heard the growling and snarling and it sounded terrible, but I knew it was natural, I try to give him the most natural life he can get while still taking care of his health and feeding him on days of unsuccesfull hunts (which I admit is actually unnatural).

It seems from this that you're letting an un-neutered (I assume due to territorial marking, fighting, etc) cat wander outside, fight and spread disease (and kittens if unneutered). And you're calling me irresponsible. If your cat is neutered, then please forgive what I've said, but even so, if your cat's fighting with others, it is at risk of killer disease, and of spreading it to others.

Let me ask you one thing, would you think a 2 year old human would be happy in a small room his whole life? (cats have an average intellegence of a 2 year old human) Knowing how explorative 2 year olds are

No, and neither would my cats be confined to a small room.

Cats need a lot of area, and frankly if you cant give them a relatively safe area to explore on his own, then I think you shouldn't own cats!

Edit- I read some of the above posts, how do you know your cat is happy? for gods sake, if it is dangerous to have a cat in your area then don't get one at all!

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't agree.

Also, I have happily had my cat for almost 10 years, and nothing has happened to him (except a few fights with the neighbors cat) Our whole backyard is really big and completely wild, and we live next to a semi-largely used road, my cat has never got hit by a car, I have also seen fox in my backyard, which I think are dangerous to cats) I live in the suburbs outside a really large city.

Then your cat is very lucky. God forbid he cactches and spreads FIV with his history. God forbid he ends up like Charlie and Boswell. That's out of good luck rather than management though. You can't say it's safe (in fact you admit it's dangerous), so please don't lecture me.

You all think a better life is a longer one...a better life is a good one! not a necessarily a long one.

Couldn't agree more, but why not have both? That's all I'm doing - happiness and living indoors are NOT mutually exclusive. You have the right to make your own choices for your cat based on what you think is best for them - that's all I've done. As I've said, I'm not against outdoor cats in any way, I ust choose to keep mine in because for them it's safest and best.

FOR GODS SAKE CATS AREN'T HUMANS!!! Cats try to stay away from humans!

You obviously haven't met my cats. They love human company. They also love living indoors and don't sit crying to go out as they've never been out, and never will go out. They are thoroughly happy, safe and loved. Who could ask for more?

You make your choices, I make mine. I'm sorry, but you can't sit there and lecture me - it's me who has Dodge, Grace and Errol and I know I'm doing what's best for them - if I gave them the choice to go out, they wouldn't do it - would you suggest I force them into going out when they're scared of the outdoors? Because that'd be forcing them into a life of misery which is what you're accusing me of already. You don't have the right to personally attack me and accuse me of making my loved, stimulated and thoroughly happy cats "miserable", and frankly a lot of the information you've posted about outdoor cats is untrue and dangerous. People who let their cats out should be able to do so responsibly and with knowledge of the risks - just as people who keep their cats indoors should be aware of the much larger needs and responsibilities. Giving out false information either way isn't helping anyone, much less the cats.

 

[betta_grl]

Indoors only!
I found Pumpkin outside she was skinny and unhealthy.If you even carry her out onto a pourch she will claw you to bits.Outside cats have short and dangerous lives.Cars,Cat haters,childern with rocks,ect....

 

[Synirr]

Wow, I missed that one too Kathy... just, wow.

Cats are domestic animals, so being kept by humans is what is "natural" for them. It is certainly possible to satisfy what remaining instincts they have from their wild past within the home, unless you have one of the new hybrid breeds like a bengal or savannah, then it can be more difficult, particularly if it is a low F number. Cats living on the streets are called "feral" rather than "wild" for a reason -- they are not a naturally wild species and do best when kept in the care of a human. As such, it is the responsibility of their human caretaker to look out for their best interests, which includes keeping them safe. In some situations I think it is ok to have an indoor-outdoor cat, but if your cat is wandering into other people's yards and having fights with other cats, that is not safe for it. If that were my cat, there's no way I'd take that kind of risk, particularly with an unneutered cat -- that's just downright irresponsible.

if it is dangerous to have a cat in your area then don't get one at all!

Maybe you should practice what you preach, hmm?

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

I would never personally keep a cat permanently indoors. To me (and this is just my opinion) that would be the same as being under house arrest for your whole life(the same could be said of the fish we all keep but cats are rather more intelligent and so more 'aware' I would say). Cats are sociable creatures and interact with the other cats in an area(sometimes its fighting) and surely its a shame to take this away from them.
My two boys have the added convienience of a cat flap and are therefore 'free' to come and go when they please, truely a home and not a prison!
Somebody said earlier in this thread that cats kill songbirds or are indeed wiping them out. I dont think this is the case, here in Britain cats have been around for 2000yrs or so(thats 10 USA's long) the Romans brought them and yet after all that time I still wake to birdsong(I live in the countryside). My old dad will tell how there were many times more birds 50yrs ago(before nuetering was so popular!) ,the fact is destruction of habitat and the increased use of pesticides(kills birds natural foods) and herbicides(kills birds natural foods) is whats killing off your birds!!!!!! Mind you my cats have lead to the untimely demise of some juicy rats they kindly brought us as gifts and neatly left in the centre of the kitchen doorway ,bless.
Also when my cats are near the road and someting comes they get outa there fast, they know where the road is and they seem bright enough to realize that those noisy metal fast things on it might not be the best thing in the world to get in the way of!!
People mainly keep cats indoors for the simple reason of not wanting to lose the cat(medical reasons excepted) but this is for you and not the cat. As someone said earlier if you dont live somewhere suitable for a cat dont get one. My wife would like a horse and one could live tied up in my small yard and live to a ripe old age but without a meadow to roam and graze in it wouldnt have much of a life would it, so I wont be getting one.My betta could survive in a pint glass if I changed the water enough but I wouldnt do it to him.
My point is when keeping an animal the animal comes first, if you cant provide it what it needs dont get it in the first place.
After losing our old cat(Meece.T.Cat) who was just eight and a local legend(yes we could still have him now if I kept him in and I really miss the old fella and still get a lump in the throat when I look at his picture but still wouldnt keep one 'locked in') we decided to get 2 new cats , we looked in the paper but there were only pedigrees for 10 squillion quid,the same on online local ads, so we went to the cats protection legue where we were told "No we dont really have kittens these days and when we do they're gone in an instant .Theres a waiting list you know!" Then we saw Pinky and Napper(my boys 6 months old at the time and not quite kitteny enough anymore to be snapped up by the we want a kitten brigade) and left the cats protection people with about 6 cats left needing rehoming for our whole area. It would seem the nuetering thing is wiping out our strong healthy'of no perticular breed cats' you know ,the best cats to have and is leaving us with only overpriced inbred weak health pedigrees. Long term this is very bad.I know you cant have thousands of sickly strays roaming about but wholesale nuetering of all cats is incredibly short sighted and will lead to the dissapearance of our beloved common cat!!!

Rant over Johnny

 

[KathyM]

Neutering is for the health of the cat as much as it is for the MASSIVE overpopulation problem. We won't see a danger to the average "moggie" from neutering in my lifetime, the overpopulation problem is too great. I don't know where you live, but I find it incredibly hard to believe neutering has even begun to wipe out the moggies in your area, or that you've even seen a visible decline in them - otherwise why would you have a local CPL?

Neutering prevents fighting and mating, and therefore lowers the spread of the deadly and incurable feline AIDS virus (FIV).

It stops your male cats spraying (in the most part) and your female cats coming into season and driving the whole neighbourhood up the wall.

It is not acceptable in ANY way to allow un-neutered cats to roam the streets. If people insist on having un-neutered cats (ie. pedigree breeders who obviously have to, or those irresponsible enough to leave moggies unneutered), then they should keep them in as they're not only a risk to themselves but to others, and a bloody annoyance to local residents

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Neutering is for the health of the cat as much as it is for the MASSIVE overpopulation problem. We won't see a danger to the average "moggie" from neutering in my lifetime, the overpopulation problem is too great. I don't know where you live, but I find it incredibly hard to believe neutering has even begun to wipe out the moggies in your area, or that you've even seen a visible decline in them - otherwise why would you have a local CPL?

Neutering prevents fighting and mating, and therefore lowers the spread of the deadly and incurable feline AIDS virus (FIV).

It stops your male cats spraying (in the most part) and your female cats coming into season and driving the whole neighbourhood up the wall.

It is not acceptable in ANY way to allow un-neutered cats to roam the streets. If people insist on having un-neutered cats (ie. pedigree breeders who obviously have to, or those irresponsible enough to leave moggies unneutered), then they should keep them in as they're not only a risk to themselves but to others, and a bloody annoyance to local residents

google 'northwalsham cats' this is the place for homeless cats in my area, they cover about 150 sq miles. Count the cats theyve got and you will see. As for population the same could be said of people but I dont hear you calling for the nuetering of people.
ALL cats spray its what they do to mark territory nuetered and unnuetered .The unuetered is just more pungent . My cats are immunised against FIV so nothings going to give it to them is it???
Sometimes it would be good if people questioned the prayer sheet instead of just blindly quoting from it(this is not strictly aimed for the person I quoted so please dont be offended)
It would of course be better to just spay females(but not every last one) and leave males intact as nuetering a male changes its personality, that is the cat it was ment to be or maybe cat vesectomy so the cat cant get females pregnant but still feels like hes supposed to!

 

[KathyM]

What utter tosh, sorry. There is NO vaccine for FIV - maybe you're thinking of FeLV, a completely different disease.

Neutering can alter personality in a male, yes. It makes them more loving, less likely to roam and less likely to fight. It makes them safer. They don't "miss" sex if they've never had it, and don't even if they have. Sex for cats is purely hormonal driven for mating, it's not a pleasure driven drive, it's all in their nads. Take them off and they're less frustrated, less inclined to fight and don't miss them one bit. As for neutered male cat pee being smellier than intact - certainly not my experience in my years of cat ownership and rescue work.

Frankly if you've got two cats off the CPL and haven't neutered them appropriately, they'll need to be knowing that as they stipulate all cats they adopt out have to be neutered at the appropriate age. Maybe yours were lucky and were neutered before you adopted them. If not, I would urge you to educate yourself before spouting on here that neutering isn't the best way. All facts point to neutering being the responsible thing to do for both indoor and outdoor cats, but especially so for outdoor ones.

Beth Skillings, the charity’s Head of Veterinary Services, said: “One unneutered female cat can produce up to 18 kittens a year, or up to 20,000 descendants in five years, so owners who do not neuter their cats may unwittingly contribute to cats being abandoned in the future."

Cats Protection is the UK’s leading feline welfare charity, rehoming around 60,000 cats and kittens a year through its nationwide network of 29 Adoption Centres and 260 voluntary-run Branches.

There is a cat over-population crisis in the UK today, which results in 1,000's of healthy but unwanted cats and kittens being destroyed EVERY DAY because there are not enough homes to go round. This sad fact is true also for dogs, and neutering is the only humane answer.

Top two quotes from CPL website, bottom one from Catchat, a well respected site.

I don't think I'm the only one who's noticed that it tends to be a small amount of men who are vehemently anti-neutering. Funny how many of that small amount of men also don't seem to have as much of a problem with female ovariohysterectomy (spaying). Can't possibly be an argument driven by your own pants and fear of that issue?

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

What utter tosh, sorry. There is NO vaccine for FIV - maybe you're thinking of FeLV, a completely different disease.

Neuter can alter personality in a male, yes. It makes them more loving, less likely to roam and less likely to fight. It makes them safer. They don't "miss" sex if they've never had it, and don't even if they have. Se for cats is purely hormonal driven for mating, it's not a pleasure driven drive, it's all in their nads. Take them off and they're less frustrated, less inclined to fight and don't miss them one bit. As for neutered male cat pee being smellier than intact - certainly not my experience in my years of cat ownership and rescue work.

Frankly if you've got two cats off the CPL and haven't neutered them appropriately, they'll need to be knowing that as they stipulate all cats they adopt out have to be neutered at the appropriate age. Maybe yours were lucky and were neutered before you adopted them. If not, I would urge you to educate yourself before spouting on here that neutering isn't the best way. All facts point to neutering being the responsible thing to do for both indoor and outdoor cats, but especially so for outdoor ones.

Beth Skillings, the charity’s Head of Veterinary Services, said: “One unneutered female cat can produce up to 18 kittens a year, or up to 20,000 descendants in five years, so owners who do not neuter their cats may unwittingly contribute to cats being abandoned in the future."

Cats Protection is the UK’s leading feline welfare charity, rehoming around 60,000 cats and kittens a year through its nationwide network of 29 Adoption Centres and 260 voluntary-run Branches.

There is a cat over-population crisis in the UK today, which results in 1,000's of healthy but unwanted cats and kittens being destroyed EVERY DAY because there are not enough homes to go round. This sad fact is true also for dogs, and neutering is the only humane answer.

Top two quotes from CPL website, bottom one from Catchat, a well respected site.

I don't think I'm the only one who's noticed that it tends to be a small amount of men who are vehemently anti-neutering. Funny how many of that small amount of men also don't seem to have as much of a problem with female ovariohysterectomy (spaying). Can't possibly be an argument driven by your own pants and fear of that issue?

What an idiotic reply! Ok I got my cat diseases muddled.
The CPL nueter them for you and I am well aware of their policy towards nuetering! .
I gave an observation and an opinion but look at you with your "prehaps the CPL need tellin about you" "men are against nuetering / driven by your own pants" you are throwing your toys out of the pram in a childlike manner because someone doesn't think the same as you.
The nuetering issue was a sideline to my main points.
I cant beleive you cant say anything without someone having to try to get personal and attack you!!!
I never said NO cat should ever be nuetered and I appreciate as I already said you cant have loads of strays roaming but IF YOU NUETER EVERY SINGLE COMMON CAT THEY WILL BECOME EXTINCT(logical conclusion of complete nuetering that cannot be argued with{albeit in the future}).I know theres a problem and Im not offering a solution Im just making a point!!!!!! Try listening to all sides of an argument without just getting angry for this is the basis for civilization.
IF you have to get all funny and personal dont bother replying its not the point of discussion to get angry. You dont know me ,you know nothing about me so why try to make assumptions about me
Please dont be like that to others its not nice

sad for me to have to reply in such a way johnny<=== not a bad person

 

[KathyM]

Johnny - I was answering your post as it was posted. Your post was full of bad information about neutering which showed you were ignorant (no offence) on it's effect on cats and the responsibility of owners.

Neutering is absolutely, unarguably the ONLY way to solve the cat overpopulation problem. Saying that, there are enough people in this country that are ignorant of neutering and their responsibility that "moggies" will NOT die out. It just won't ever happen. However, if more people neuter, the problem CAN lessen, which is what's so desparately needed.

Your points about the actual effects of neutering on cats were unfounded and untrue, and I simply pointed that out.

And my comments about a small minority of men being anti neutering are absolutely founded and true. Some men are SO insecure about their own genitalia that they truly feel it is cruel to neuter a pet, as they humanise the pet's needs and feelings. The truth is it is absolutely irresponsible not to neuter cats in this day and age, and no argument to the contrary will ever stand up to that.

Moggies are NOT, and will NOT die out. It just won't happen. As long as there are responsible people learning about neutering, there will be numpties who think their cat needs "one season" (oops pregnant) or "just one litter". there will always be those that listen to advice like yours about temperament/urine/"natural" vs "un-natural" and think it's true. Thankfully that old fashionned and ill informed view is on it's way out.