House Cats

[johnnyjtaylor]

Thankyou for editing your above post sad you had to be like that in the first place. Just look at both sides of an argument never just assume you are right. I suggest googling some anti nuetering stuff (I havent so I dont know whats there) and see what it says. And I stand by the fact that if you nueter ALL cats you will make them extinct , nuetering of males changes their future personality(playing god) and right or wrong morally that is true. I simply stated that in my area we do not have a cat overpopulation and aquiring a plain old moggy is getting more difficult IN MY AREA (count the homeless darlings on the website I told you earlier). As I said I am offering no solution and there is a need for one ,Im just giving an opinion as you are trying to give yours, as I said in my first post this was my opinion but I will say again this was a sideline in my first post which was about keeping cats locked in a house which I do not agree with and still don't.

Johnny

 

[KathyM]

I edited it to add an "x" to sex, which I'd missed out. Everything else is still there I think

ALL cats spray its what they do to mark territory nuetered and unnuetered .The unuetered is just more pungent .

Just wanted to add that not "ALL cats" spray - un-neutered, male cats spray. If a neutered male cat sprays it is indicative of FLUTD and the cat needs to see a vet.

 

[Synirr]

In Houston and Harris County here in Texas, over 85,000 dogs and cats must be euthanized every year. That's just for one big city. This is not a problem restricted to this state or even this country. There's no way in hell that there's a shortage of shelter pets, period, and even if there's not such a dramatic surplus in your area, keeping a cat that is allowed to roam outdoors and come into contact with other cats unspayed/unneutered is one of the single most irresponsible things you can possibly do, in my opinion. You are essentially saying that you are fine with contributing to the problem, and you don't mind having a few more older cats euthanized every year because the cute little kittens your cat produces are taking up potential homes. That makes my blood boil, it really does.

There actually is a FIV vaccine, I think it was introduced in 2002, so it is relatively new. However, there are still a lot of problems with it. It was made using only two Clades out of the five that exist for FIV, and tested for only one, so your cat will not be fully protected against all strains. Additionally, it is advertised as being only 82% effective for the strain of the virus it was tested with, and all cats who receive the vaccine test positive for FIV with all current testing methods -- which means if they ever get lost and taken to a shelter, they are likely to be euthanized on the spot to prevent the spread of the disease. To put it bluntly, YES, even if your cats are vaccinated, another cat can definitely give it to them. Because of these problems, most vets do not currently recommend the FIV vaccine, or even mention it, and it is highly unlikely your cats have recieved it unless you specifically requested it and made clear to your vet that you understand the problems with it. Somehow, what with advocating keeping cats "whole", as it were, I doubt that.


EDIT: Yikes, a lot of replies while I was writing mine!

 

[KathyM]

There actually is a FIV vaccine, I think it was introduced in 2002, so it is relatively new. However, there are still a lot of problems with it. It was made using only two Clades out of the five that exist for FIV, and tested for only one, so your cat will not be fully protected against all strains. Additionally, it is advertised as being only 82% effective for the strain of the virus it was tested with, and all cats who receive the vaccine test positive for FIV with all current testing methods -- which means if they ever get lost and taken to a shelter, they are likely to be euthanized on the spot to prevent the spread of the disease. To put it bluntly, YES, even if your cats are vaccinated, another cat can definitely give it to them. Because of these problems, most vets do not currently recommend the FIV vaccine, or even mention it, and it is highly unlikely your cats have recieved it unless you specifically requested it and made clear to your vet that you understand the problems with it. Somehow, what with advocating keeping cats "whole", as it were, I doubt that.

Yes, sorry, I should've said there IS an FIV vaccine available in the States, but not in this country (UK).

 

[Synirr]

Yes, sorry, I should've said there IS an FIV vaccine available in the States, but not in this country (UK).

Ah alrighty, didn't know if it was available there or not

 

[KathyM]

No Synirr, not yet. I think the efficacy side of things is insteresting, thanks for posting it. It's much like what I've read about the FeLV vaccine - not 100% effective but still worth having? Very interesting!

Edited to add: This is a really good link for FIV information for anyone interested:

http/www.fabcats.org/fiv.html

 

[Synirr]

The FeLV vaccine is much better than the FIV one, but it is still in development really, after all. I mean, it's only effective 82% of the time for ONE strain, one out of five, so not that great. I think at least three strains are present in the US. It has potential as something that could be given to feral cats to help control the spread of this disease, but for housecats it's probably best to avoid it until it is made more effective, particularly with it causing them to test positive.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Do you know Kathy I dont really care what you think. Im bored now. Think Ill just stick to fish posts. You just go be 'funny' to others. Go on beleiving that you are the most knowledgable person in the world and nobody else has a brain and be happy. AND KEEP THOSE CATS LOCKED IN!!!!!!
Feel free to reply with a nasty post cos I wont answer back as Im not going to look at this thread again.
bye bye johnny

 

[Synirr]

Translation: I have no valid counterpoint.

 

[KathyM]

AND KEEP THOSE CATS LOCKED IN!!!!!!

Thanks for the advice, I will

Synirr you're spot on, and thanks for the info on the vaccines, it's all fascinating to me

 

[catxx]

can't we just agree to disagree??

 

[OohFeeshy]

All our cats have been and are allowed to go out when they like. With the exception of our newest, Alfie, who hasn't been neutered yet (that comes next week), although he is taken outside on a lead and harness (and is supervised) every day for a few hours. When they go outside, most of the time they sit around in the garden, occasionally they go off elsewhere (always remaining in people's back gardens, they can't access a road, even if they did the roads are not busy), probably to get fed by other people or scrounge for food... None have caught any diseases, been run over, been attacked by some uncouth yoof, or whatever. They're not stupid. Yes, they get into fights, but so do indoor cats- my nan keeps her cats indoors (she had a deaf cat who obviously couldn't go out, so in the intrests of fairness none were allowed out) and they are always fighting.

 

[LisaLQ]

Translation: I have no valid counterpoint.

Sorry, I just nearly weed my pants

Must say, dont have a cat but if I did it would be indoors. Currently there's far too much danger indoors for any cat as I have a very un-cat-friendly doggie. But when her time comes, we have already said we're going to get a pair of cats, as I'm disabled and no longer able to keep up with an active dog, luckily my old cripple of a mutt is in the same boat (both have dodgy back ends LMAO) so is content with small walks and unlimited garden access via permanently open back door. I'm home all day and could easily offer a couple of cats plenty of attention.

I just wanted to say I think it's interesting to see that it was alright for some folks to slam those who kept indoor pets, but when shown the other side with polite (how they managed it I dont know) criticism they accuse folks of being nasty

I know and love Kathy's cats, and they are not in any way deprived of anything. Apart from Grace who is clearly lacking a brain.

 

[wodesorel]

The FeLV vaccine is much better than the FIV one, but it is still in development really, after all.

In the US, vets have stopped giving indoor only cats the FeLV vaccine for the most part. The problem is that it has a much higher risk of sarcoma than just distemper or rabies (which is the only vaccine required by law). Indoor/oudoor and outdoor cats are expected to have it cut down on the spread of the disease, but indoor cats have almost no risk of coming in contact with infected cats. Not only that, but they're finding now that the vaccine may last seven or more years, and therefore giving the cat a yearly vaccine and exposing them to the risk of cancer may outweigh the advantaged of getting them vaccinated. This kind of thinking started in areas with low to no cases of FeLV in the outdoor population, and is slowly spreading. However, if your vet tell you to get the vaccine, YOU NEED TO! He will have reasons for doing so - he knows of outdoor cases in your area, or other infected patients around, and it will be in the best intrest of your feline companion. And again, no one is really sure how effective the FeLV vaccine is, though if one of your cats tests positive at any point, your other cats may be given the vaccine as a precautionary measure.

FIV vaccine is really still extremely iffy, and usually is only suggested in cases where an FIV cat is part of a multi-cat household. The other cats will be vaccinated as a precaution. However, FIV is a harder to spread disease, even in an indoor only population. It usually is only spread through sex and through deep bite wounds - the kind that pucture skin and muscle. There are other ways to get it, but these are the most common. I would have an FIV positive cat in my house without worrying, because I've done the research. The reason why it's such a worry for outdoor cats is the fighting/sex. There are places where almost every outdoor cat is infected because of it.

Yes, they get into fights, but so do indoor cats- my nan keeps her cats indoors (she had a deaf cat who obviously couldn't go out, so in the intrests of fairness none were allowed out) and they are always fighting.

Fights are different between cats outside who are defending territory, expecially unfixed cats. Indoor cats who live in their own "colony" of sorts don't draw blood, the fights don't last long, and they aren't really trying to kill each other - they're just ticked off at the moment and are letting out frustrations. The fur may fly, but there will never be injuries that you have to take them to the vet for. (Unless one of te falls down the steps... Been there, done that!)

You should see my two 20 pound males going at it! If they were outdoor rivals from different territories, one would be dead by now. As it is, they get into one 5 minute tiff once a month, scream and hollar and let the fur fly, and then 10 minutes later are curled up on my bed together sound asleep.

 

[Captain Retardo]

KathyM and Synirr - My cat is neutered has all his shots, and has always been extremely healthy, yet he has been an outside cat for 10 years, he spends only about 1-2 hours at home (Although I kind of wish more, so that I could play with him a little bit more) My area is not dangerous and it shows because of my cats age, and he IS street smart, I have never ever even seen him go close to the road. The problem I see withindoor cats is how you could keep them happy: Lets do the math: 12 hours spent sleeping. about 30-40 min eating, going to bathroom, that kind of stuff. And you play with him for about 1-3 hours (is that right?). Then at most the cat spends 16 hours of the day doing nothing, what about the other 8 hours? I doubt you spend 11 hours playing with your cat.


I realize I said some ridiculous stuff in my first posts, but after some peoples responses later, I realized some of it was incorrect. But I still advocate only getting a cat if you live in a safe OUTDOOR area.


And my cat has gotten in fights with the seldom outside neighbor cat, at which point one day he came with some of the fur on his tail scratched off, but this was not a big injury at all (He just looked kinda funny for a month!) My cat barely gets in fights with him though.

And as for the songbird arguement read this fact: Research indicates that nearly 50% of domestic cats do not hunt at all. Of those that do, nearly 40% catch rats and mice only. 24% catch introduced birds. Only 4% of domestic cats catch native birds. Stray cats mainly eat rats, mice and garbage. (F Seymour, ANZFAS article) I got that fact from this website: http/www.users.bigpond.com/berrime/wildcats.htm#indef
The website above also gives the arguement against cat too

I am for the neutering of cats though, especially with the feral cat problem.

Also a fact that is thrown at me is that outdoor cats live an average of 3-5 years while indoor cats live an average of something like 10 -15 years. I find something wrong with that survey, because they could have taken into account feral cats and maybe even euthanizing of cats by humane agencies.