Horrible Story

[catxx]

this happened on Saturday, just keeping fingers crossed they blame the owners and bring about some law against owners rather than the breed ban thats going on in the US

Neighbours and residents have been laying flowers outside a pub in Leicester after a five-month-old baby was killed by two Rottweiler dogs.

The girl was savaged in the living quarters of the Rocket pub in the New Parks area. Local MP Patricia Hewitt described the death as appalling.

Police are investigating how the animals came to attack the baby.

The two Rottweilers, which lived at the pub, were put down after the attack on Saturday.

A spokesman for the Leicester Coroner's Office said a post-mortem examination would be carried out on the child on Tuesday, after which an inquest into her death would be opened.

One neighbour, Rose Duke, said: "Those dogs were terrible. If I passed, they would come charging across the roof.

"They frightened the life out of anyone who passed the pub. I would not have trusted them as far as I could throw them. People are in shock."

The girl, who has not been named by police, was taken to Leicester Royal Infirmary on Saturday afternoon where she later died from her injuries following the attack in Stephenson Drive, New Parks.

It is thought her parents had been looking after the pub and the animals while the landlords were on holiday.

The attack comes weeks after a boy aged four in Cambridgeshire had 200 stitches after being attacked by a bulldog.

Chris Lawrence, veterinary director of the Dogs Trust, said a change in the law might be necessary to minimise the possibility of this sort of attack.

He said investigators should be examining "why these dogs behave like this, why the training of the dogs is inadequate, and addressing those sort of issues".

Patricia Hewitt, MP for the area where the attack took place, told BBC Radio Five Live: "This is the most appalling tragedy and my heart goes out to the parents of this little baby who's died in such appalling circumstances."

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/5376788.stm

 

[jarmado]

very sad.

 

[Bloo]

First of all - it's truly horrendous beyond words.
But so many "attacks" are in fact provoked (even if unknowingly) - especially by children who will pinch, punch or tease a dog. No excuse, but still. Properly "training children" to have respect for animals goes a long way.
But clearly in the case the young baby was lying in a cot and did nothing like this.
My mother always used to drill into us: anything with teeth can bite !

This will no doubt put a blemish on the breed name and personally I have a great distrust for this breed. Despite being a fan and ex-owner of Dobermann's - another breed with a bad name.
I've personally witnessed 2 Rottweilers attack a woman (entirely unprovoked) and maul her arm off. The horror of this to this day I will not forget.

However - I agree the dogs could have been entirely different in nature, had they been properly trained.
And this video on pittbulls always come to mind
Edit: for those who might not have seen this video - there are some shocking graphics and is extremly sad. Not for the faint of heart.

 

[OohFeeshy]

From what I heard the two dogs were used as guard dogs, which immediately means they were trained to attack (not much use if they went up and slobbered lovingly on an intruder).

 

[dthoffsett]

Reputable trainers of guard dogs do not train those dogs to attack unprovoked. I am friends with a trainer, who also trains police dogs. He raises his dogs with his and other neighborhood children, and the dogs are taught to attack only if the person is threatening them, their owners, or the house, no any person that comes near them. They are also taught to bark and posture when someone comes near their property. These are still loving dogs if trainined properly, and anyone who would train a dog to attack unprovoked should be shot in my opinion.

That is a horrible thing to have happened, and hopefully something other than banning the breed will happen.

 

[AlexAndCarmen]

Being a mother myself, I can't imagine how those people are coping. Loosing a child must be one of the worst things ever and especially in this case, where they probably tried their best to save the child and couldn't. The police have just said the parents were moving furniture and accidentally left a fire escape door open, the dogs grabbed the baby out of her moses basket, onto the roof of the pub and savagely mauled her!! So a totally unprovoked attack. It's just awful.

But the story gets worse. The babies grandfather (her fathers, father) was stabbed in his own home hours later and his partner killed!!! He is in a critical condition in hospital. How are these people going to cope with two terrible tragedies? The police said it was totally unconnected, but you do wonder if it wasn't someone who was angry about the fact that the dogs were put to sleep.

It's really a terrible tragedy.

 

[babybell911]

I understand that these people were terrified of the dogs so why would they leave their bay in the same room as the dogs unsupervised. Surely that is juts asking for trouble if you know the dogs are going to be a problem. I feel for the loss of those people but solely the dogs is just wrong.
My grandad had two rotties and they were so sweet and soppy. I have a border collie and I would trust those rottie's way more than I would trust him.

 

[juliehainsworth]

I want to know why on earth they left the baby unattended? If they were moving furniture about and left the fire escape open the logical thing to do would be to keep the door of the room that the baby is in tightly closed, or ensure that the dogs are somewhere where they cant get in.

This story does make me even more nervous about how my dog will be when my baby is born, I wont even leave him in a room with my 6 year old niece unsupervised, not because he'd attack her but more of because he's clumsy and would easily knock her over.

However I do have sympathy for the family as I cant even begin to imagine the grieve that they are going through, it's all very well us (including myself) asking questions like how etc? but it doesnt do anything to help ease their pain.

 

[Bloo]

What is this world coming to ?

Now the grandmother of the baby has been killed.

 

[jarmado]

What is this world coming to ?

Now the grandmother of the baby has been killed.

unrelated incidents according to the police/press

 

[Bloo]

What is this world coming to ?

Now the grandmother of the baby has been killed.

unrelated incidents according to the police/press

I have my doubts - way too much of a coincidence.

Police said that the two incidents were "criminally unrelated" but are investigating whether the baby's death might have precipitated the stabbings, which occurred as emotions ran high at around 2am on Sunday morning.

 

[nmonks]

I'm going to second this. There are various factors at play here.

1. Cheap, inbred pedigree dogs are not fair representatives of the true standard of a breed. People want fashionable dogs but they are dissuaded by the high price of quality stock. So they end up getting cheap dogs that have been essentially farmed into existence rather than carefully bred by people wanting to maintain and improve the best qualities of the breed.
2. The dogs most/least likely to breed are not always intutitive. Golder retrievers and Labradors are the two breeds least likely to bite. Of the dogs very likely to bite, the Rottweiler is in the top ten, but so is the Collie. Dobermanns are less than half as likely to bite than German Shepherds and Huskies, and even Saint Bernards make it into the top ten. So broad-brush legislation about banning/allowing certain dog breeds tend to be reactive to events and public perception rather than based on statistics.
3. All breeds of dog, not to mention mutts, can and do bite. Breed has far less to do with it than the sex of the dog, how well (or not) it is trained, how people treat the dog, and so on.
4. 70% of dog biting people incidents involved unneutered male dogs (according to the US Centers for Disease Control). This beggars the questions -- if people have no intention of breeding their dog, why keep a whole male? Or why not a female dog? For a lot of people, it seems to be a status thing: there's more machismo or whatever with a whole male dog.
5. Not all dogs are for all people. A German Shepherd dog needs to be kept by someone who can dominate it, otherwise it will be very bad tempered (and potentially bite). A Collie, on the other hand, needs someone who will demand 18 hours of work a day, or it will get bored (and potentially bite). And so on. You pick the dog based on your needs, and shouldn't expect every dog to adapt to your situation. It won't.
6. Children have to learn to respect animals. As Bloo mentioned, oftentimes kids abuse animals on the assumption the animal is just a toy. It's not. Cats only scratch when molested, yet kids are always getting scratched by cats. Explanation: kids do things to cats they shouldn't.
7. Families need to be trained, not just the dog. A big dog is almost as dangerous as a gun in the sense of being able to cause harm. No-one in their right mind would leave a gun lying around in the home of a family that didn't know how it worked. Likewise, any family with a dog should have some appreciation of how dogs think and react.

Obviously it's very sad that this family has had some much grief in just a few days, but as sure as God made little green apples, behind every "mad dog" is poor breeding and a lack of training.

Cheers,

Neale
(Who actually prefers cats!)

Reputable trainers of guard dogs do not train those dogs to attack unprovoked. I am friends with a trainer, who also trains police dogs. He raises his dogs with his and other neighborhood children, and the dogs are taught to attack only if the person is threatening them, their owners, or the house, no any person that comes near them. They are also taught to bark and posture when someone comes near their property. These are still loving dogs if trainined properly, and anyone who would train a dog to attack unprovoked should be shot in my opinion.

 

[TigerIssey]

I would like to agree with everything Nmonks said, although you prefer cats you have a very sound understanding of dogs.

Just like bloo, as a child from age 8 - 16 we had two dobermans, when we first got them (ex police dog handlers pets) it was about that time in the 80's that there were quite a few rottie attacks, people did not see a difference between the two breeds and many were scared of our dogs. That was until and 8 year old child would tell them to stop sit stay etc!! Always they looked meek, our dogs were well trained, they did not seem to look on me as anything other than one above them in the pack, obviously mom and dad were first.

This is how it has to work with dogs mom, dad, (whichever order) kids then dogs. If the training is not done right in the first place, there is always the potential for trouble.

I must be a sucker for getting looky likey dogs, the amount of times little old ladies with tiny lap dogs give me filthy looks for owning a stafford (resembling a pit bull) they are completely different dogs both temperament wise and looks.

When I took my stafford to dog training, there seemed to be half of the training course that had bought "cheap" dogs that it turned out came from puppy farms. The whole idea of a pedigree dog is one that has been picked to be bred with another exceptional specimen of the breed in order to keep the best possible qualities in the offspring. This is just not happening with too many dogs today and then so many breeds end up with bad reputations. It gets me so mad.

I have an intact male, the only reason he is intact is that he is a Crufts qualifed for life (has stud book number) stud dog, that has been used twice so far. I will also along with his breeder not let him be over used at stud, that causes other problems in my opinion, like reduced gene pools where if you do get an undesiable trait, you are then very limited in a dog to choose to rid your line of this trait.

There are so many dogs out there that just like pacus, irredescent sharks, red tailed cats that should not be with the owners they are with.

Having said that I really do feel for the loss of a baby, however although the police say the stabbings were unrelated, I cannot help but think there is something we do not know here, there is just too big a coincidence.

 

[KathyM]

I think it's very easy to speculate what happened, and why the dogs did this, but the underlying issue is that a 5 month old baby was left unattended with two aggressive dogs.

It says in many of the reports that the dogs grabbed her from a cot - I can't see how that could've happened, so it's obvious reporting is not to be trusted.

What is apparent from eye witnesses is that the parents did not even know their baby was being killed on the roof and frankly that's appalling.

No child should be left unattended with any dog, and I feel the breed is irrelevant, but will bring on the stupidity witch-hunting of the 80s, where people like me with large dogs will be persecuted for people not being good parents.

I feel terribly sorry for the family of the baby, but there is blame there, and not with the dogs themselves. The dogs died for what happened when it wasn't their fault, it's an absolute tragedy. Already people are dumping rotties in the pounds. Punish the deed not the breed.

 

[TigerIssey]

Kathy I agree, I meant to go down those lines aswell but got so tied up in other aspects, I know many peolple with dog/ kid mix, none of them leave a child alone with the dogs let alone a baby.

Like you said Kathy, how did the dogs get the baby out of the cot and how did they get it up to roof without at least someone being alerted. Then as you said where the heck where the parents at this point. Surely at some point in all of this the baby would have cried.

Please please please let this not be a return to 80's and I do not know who could help us if britain goes down BSL!!!!!

Responsible ownership is the key, even if you are sitting for other peoples dogs, it is you who are responsible. I am getting mad again.

Thanks for pointing out what I had missed Kathy

Like you I really hope this doesn't impact on large or like mine powerful dogs.