Emergency! Betta: Despite My Very Best Of Intentions To Help These

[Nightfall]

You are seriously over-medicating those fish. That can be a stressor as much as poor water quality and moving. All you need in there is a bit of aquarium salt and the indian almond leaves.I am very much against throwing medication at fish, as it's one of the main reasons that many fancy fish -particularly Bettas - are so delicate these days. Breeders constantly medicate their fish to keep them healthy, and that means fry who would normally naturally be killed off live and go on to be pets. It can also make them resistant to the meds, which means that if you're dosing them with antibacterial medication now for no reason, it might not help them in the future if they ever need it. It's very risky, and meds should really not be given unless you know for sure what is ailing the fish.

Why are you wanting to give them parasite medication? I might have missed information in your posts, but I don't see any symptoms that might indicate they have them. All the symptoms point to poor water quality.
Unless someone here says you have reason to suspect parasites, please stick with giving them the Attison's (by the way, it IS an excellent food. I feed it to my Bettas). You can supplement the pellets with some frozen blood worms once a week as a treat, or maybe some live brine shrimp. Since you're dealing with such small tanks and zero filtration, you should feed them a couple of pellets a few times a day to ensure there's no waste. Remove what they don't eat if possible.

I would not trust those strip tests. They are highly inaccurate. You need to use drop tests, where you capture tank water in a test tube and add drops of solution to the water to determine the levels of pH, nitrites, nitrates and ammonia. The API master test kit is excellent, but expensive.

Basically, I agree that it sounds like water quality problems. You MUST have a filter. They can do without a heater as long as the temperature is steady and fairly warm, but there is no room for compromise with a filter. The 3g is a vase, right? Bettas are labyrinth fish, meaning they have gills and a labyrinth organ that allows them to breathe air from the surface. In the wild, they live in shallow puddles with large surface areas. They don't necessarily need shallow tanks, but they DO need a large surface area, so that is far more important to them than depth. The tank (since I'm assuming you're going to be purchasing a more suitable home) should have a lid that allows for several inches of space between the surface of the water and the top of the tank, since they need a cover (Bettas are excellent jumpers) but they also need plenty of air to breathe from the surface, thus they need that air to be able to freely circulate.
5g is a good size for a Betta, and you can easily find 'starter tanks' that will come with a built-in light and filter, and sometimes even a heater as well.

Plants can definitely help. With enough light, Duckweed will grow like crazy, but some people find it too invasive. You could buy an established plant that's rooted to some driftwood or rocks, which will generally continue growing with enough light. The key is definitely light, the tank will need a dedicated lamp or most plants will just yellow and die. The upside of planted tanks is that they cycle faster, help control ammonia and nitrite blooms, and they can help keep the temperature steady in smaller tanks lacking heaters. By giving them floating plants, or large-leafed plants, you can provide shade for the fish, so they don't always have to be in the glare of the tank lights.


My last bit of advice would be not to rescue any more Bettas until they each have suitable tanks with filters, heaters, lights and plants - and even then, only commit to helping the fish if you have a new, cycled tank with all the right accessories cycled and ready to go for each fish.

 

[Onbu]

You are seriously over-medicating those fish. That can be a stressor as much as poor water quality and moving. All you need in there is a bit of aquarium salt and the indian almond leaves.I am very much against throwing medication at fish, as it's one of the main reasons that many fancy fish -particularly Bettas - are so delicate these days. Breeders constantly medicate their fish to keep them healthy, and that means fry who would normally naturally be killed off live and go on to be pets. It can also make them resistant to the meds, which means that if you're dosing them with antibacterial medication now for no reason, it might not help them in the future if they ever need it. It's very risky, and meds should really not be given unless you know for sure what is ailing the fish.

Why are you wanting to give them parasite medication? I might have missed information in your posts, but I don't see any symptoms that might indicate they have them. All the symptoms point to poor water quality.
Unless someone here says you have reason to suspect parasites, please stick with giving them the Attison's (by the way, it IS an excellent food. I feed it to my Bettas). You can supplement the pellets with some frozen blood worms once a week as a treat, or maybe some live brine shrimp. Since you're dealing with such small tanks and zero filtration, you should feed them a couple of pellets a few times a day to ensure there's no waste. Remove what they don't eat if possible.

I would not trust those strip tests. They are highly inaccurate. You need to use drop tests, where you capture tank water in a test tube and add drops of solution to the water to determine the levels of pH, nitrites, nitrates and ammonia. The API master test kit is excellent, but expensive.

Basically, I agree that it sounds like water quality problems. You MUST have a filter. They can do without a heater as long as the temperature is steady and fairly warm, but there is no room for compromise with a filter. The 3g is a vase, right? Bettas are labyrinth fish, meaning they have gills and a labyrinth organ that allows them to breathe air from the surface. In the wild, they live in shallow puddles with large surface areas. They don't necessarily need shallow tanks, but they DO need a large surface area, so that is far more important to them than depth. The tank (since I'm assuming you're going to be purchasing a more suitable home) should have a lid that allows for several inches of space between the surface of the water and the top of the tank, since they need a cover (Bettas are excellent jumpers) but they also need plenty of air to breathe from the surface, thus they need that air to be able to freely circulate.
5g is a good size for a Betta, and you can easily find 'starter tanks' that will come with a built-in light and filter, and sometimes even a heater as well.

Plants can definitely help. With enough light, Duckweed will grow like crazy, but some people find it too invasive. You could buy an established plant that's rooted to some driftwood or rocks, which will generally continue growing with enough light. The key is definitely light, the tank will need a dedicated lamp or most plants will just yellow and die. The upside of planted tanks is that they cycle faster, help control ammonia and nitrite blooms, and they can help keep the temperature steady in smaller tanks lacking heaters. By giving them floating plants, or large-leafed plants, you can provide shade for the fish, so they don't always have to be in the glare of the tank lights.


My last bit of advice would be not to rescue any more Bettas until they each have suitable tanks with filters, heaters, lights and plants - and even then, only commit to helping the fish if you have a new, cycled tank with all the right accessories cycled and ready to go for each fish.

Dear nightfall,

Thank you very much for the time you took to reply to my post.

This morning I have found a supplier I can get these from in about 3 days:

http/www.dubaipetstore.com/IQ3-Mini-Acrylic-Aquarium-62-1257-376-p.aspx

http/www.dubaipetstore.com/IQ5-Mini-Acrylic-Aquarium-62-1997-376-p.aspx

Are either of these IQ models actually ideal for a betta or just a gimmick tank that would not suit a betta due to the specs or the size/pump/filter/light etc

Same question goes for the Biorb tank models please (although I can not get them locally so would have to bring in from overseas which would take longer)

IF the IQ models are a good choice, would it be possible for anyone to tell me whether the IQ3 water volume and filter etc is okay for just one betta or is the IQ5 being a little larger is the only way to go.

I would also appreciate hearing from anyone who uses these models and can advise which accessories are required but do not come in the box with the tank so I can try to order these all at the same time.

I have spent hours glued to my laptop and reading information which routinely contradicts or disagrees with the last advice I've read - not to mention the multiple different aquatic advice forums I have turned to for genuine emergency help regarding treatment options; only on most occassions to be informed that these little fish will never be healthy because they are not in a heated, filtered, much larger cycled tank environment.  I am not a fish expert, which is why I was immediately looking for help when they showed negative signs and I am now completely aware from my reading that betta's will thrive in those perfectly regulated and consisted tank conditions but these two little guys have never lived in an environment like that (always a 3 gallon vase) and their previous owner reported zero past health problems and they've only been in my home for the last few weeks.

I feel absolutely terrible, and devastatingly guilty that these little guys are unwell - and whether they were already unwell when i took them in doesnt change how upset i feel looking at them and watching them every minute of the day worrying because they are very obviously unwell/unhappy.
I agree with you; i should not have taken them in - i did it with the kindest intentions and thinking I was doing a really good thing because the person who owned them was leaving the country and could not find any loving homes who wanted to adopt them - I knew they were stress sensitive little creatures and so I went above and beyond to find out everything I could from their previous owner before they arrived at my place with regards to their history, environment and her care routines with them...I knew then that I could commit to her 100% water change twice a week schedule and I was sure that from reading and learning I could tweak their water conditions and food brands etc to help them be even happier (especially the poor little guy who I found out later from the owner that he was an ongoing tail biter - I have invested tons of time trying to learn about the why's behind this behaviour and the different methods suggested for breaking the habit).

Anyhow, it is what it is now.

I do appreciate your time and advice.

Thank you.

 

[snazy]

Just one thing to add, there's no contradictory advise here. Fish in uncycled tanks will not be healthy no matter what. Ammonia causes fin rot and medication in an uncycled tank, on top of the toxic ammonia+ medicated food is putting that betta in a lot of pain.
Bettas are not sensitive fish, on the contrary, that's why the are kept in the worse conditions possible and last a bit longer than other species in uncycled tanks, also breathe air from the surface. So people are getting away with it for a good while. But I would love someone to come up here and prove they managed to look after a betta in conditions like that without affecting their full lifespan of 5-6 years. In reallity, the truth is quite different. The best they do is 2-3 years in a setup like that and that's after treating the fish with all possible medication for fin rots, tail biting, lumps, etc..It's quite often on forums to read someone's profile having had fish for 1-2 years and already kept 5-6 bettas that died at certain stage.
So don't get confused that someone kept a fish in that vase for several months and if it didn't die, it was fine. No, it wasn't and maybe now you are picking up the consequences of weakened immune system that inevitably follows.

The IQ tanks are looking a bit too small. The first one is 2.4 Gallons?

 

[Questions?]

you could use some moss balls or some other moss (im pretty sure someone on here said marimo moss is some kind of algea?) if you want to improve the water conditions and wait for the filter to start growing the good bacteria

This will have little effect on the amounts of ammonia the fish can produce. You'd need a tank packed of marimo moss balls to do anything and considering they are super slow growers, they won't do much. Fast growing plants will do better.

i meant other moss but as seeing in his first post he asked about moss balls so it isn't the best, but its will help

 

[Nightfall]

Both those aquariums seem too small to me, although having filtration makes them vastly preferable to the vase. With a tank that size, you would need several high volume water changes a week, and you'd need a gravel vacuum to clean the substrate - I know from experience using a tank with similar dimensions, the waste builds up FAST, even with filtration. You'd need to test the water parameters daily and respond accordingly with water changes.
If it were a stopgap while you continued to search for 5g+ tanks for them, I would say go for it. If it were going to be their permanent home, I would say keep looking.

Have you stopped medicating them? I don't think I'm contradicting anyone's advice by saying that they'd do well with just the aquarium salt (helps with fin rot) and indian almond leaf (helps condition the water, though you still need to use water conditioner). The only "medication" I would use in this case was maybe a very short course of stress zyme, because they are obviously stressed. Water quality is the key to improving their condition, and adding medication upon medication only further adds to the pollutants in the water.

I know it feels like you're doing nothing, but you're doing something huge by giving them ideal conditions. You need to keep the water changes fairly low-volume and frequent so they don't go the opposite way and get Old Tank Syndrome, which is where they get so used to poor conditions that the sudden onset of 'ideal' water condition shocks and even kills them.

Never confuse a Betta surviving bad conditions (like yours did) with a Betta thriving in good conditions. Thriving Bettas hunt brine shrimp and blood worms, they are greedy little pigs, they play all the time (unless they're a lazy Betta, in which case they'll prop themselves up on leaves or rocks on their bellies and chill out), they're bright and colourful with gorgeous flowing fins and they will build enormous bubblenests. A surviving Betta just sits there in its murky bowl, not playing, not building bubblenests, and is probably less colourful with ragged fins from chewing or from the ammonia eating away at them.

Your new Bettas were existing with their original owner, and you're giving them the chance to live.

 

[phoenixgsd]

to avoid confusion, as there is alot of info, could a mod merge these two threads as there are two, http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/410663-emergency-betta-please-help-if-you-can-something-has-gone-very-wrong/ in the other thread i suggested the tanks you have linked to are not suitable, yet as your asking here too, i assume you lost track of the other thread, this is quite a fast moving forum and threads can end up pages back, having just one thread saves everyone repeating themselves