High Nitrites..please Help!

If money is not an issue then perhaps you should consider a fresh API master kit to take away some of the question marks in that area. What about the gravel? We're assuming its standard stuff rinsed from a bag from the LFS? Any history to the tank and objects prior to this setup?

~~waterdrop~~
 
If you have picked up what the salty people call live rock, you have microorganisms dropping dead due to exposure to fresh water. They will be a source of the ammonia to nitrite sequence. By placing a new piece of media next to the old for 3 days, you have not given the new media enough time to become colonized by the bacteria. As someone already said, when you threw out the old media, any bacterial colony you might have developed went with it. If you are still processing ammonia, something besides your filter has become colonized with the ammonia processing bacteria. If your only bioload was a single guppy, there is no way you could reach 5 ppm of nitrites from 1 ppm in a single day. There is either some other source of ammonia in the tank or you are doing the test wrong. Other possible sources are decaying excess food present where you don't see it such as in the filter, dead plant materials or decaying fish or snails. That is all that occurs to be right now but have a close look around your tank for anything that might be feeding the ammonia end of the cycle.
 
:angry:

I am pulling my hair out now! After my last post, I got fed up and finally I reset my tank.

Complete water change. Retained 30% water from tank in bucket and used it to refill later.
Removed large rock
Removed ALL gravel
Retained filter media
Retained fake plants.
1 guppy in the tank
External filter
Aerator

Readings immediately after change: Ammonia: 0ppm, Nitrite: 0.25-0.50ppm

Reading 12 hours after the change: Ammonia: 0ppm, Nitrite: off the chart! what in the world! Where did I get that amount of nitrite from?

What should I do next? I can do a fishless cycling but I dont think I can get ammonia anywhere here. I have asked at Petco and PetSmart, but they dont keep it.
I have got Biozyme to use for cycling. I havent even opened the box since I have no idea if I should be using it.

Please help!
 
Well, gets more interesting!

I wonder if you're somehow retaining nitrite in one of the media types in the external filter. Can you describe the filter make/model and one by one each of the types of media in there?

Almost tempted to have you separate the media each into their own jars and take readings separately (I think a single guppy would be ok in a tank of fresh dechlor tap water for quite a while or even a large bucket...)

Give us your tap water readings and remind us again of the brand and method (liquid/strip) of each test.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Nitrite is something that we always think of as coming from the biological cycle but it does exist in the world with no ammonia source. I would remove the rock completely to a separate bucket and see if the nitrites might be coming from having the rock slowly dissolving in your tank water. This is just a wild guess because we look to be dealing with an inorganic source for the nitrites.
 
I think I found it! I had never done the tap water test or probably had done it wrong. Thanks to waterdrop for asking me re-do it. The tap water somehow has ammonia in it! It is in the shades of 0.25-0.5ppm! That explains the large amount of nitrites in the water (and scares me as a consumer of that water). But now the question it, even when I had the nitrites sit there for several days I never actually saw any growth of nitrites processing bacteria.

1. How do I treat my tap water to remove ammonia to a safe level for my tank?
2. How do I kick start the growth of nitrites processing bacteria?

I have a Tetra Whisper filter like this:
http://www.elmersaquarium.com/images/112whisper_Filter.jpg

It has one filter bag with carbon in it. Rest of the filter is the mechanical parts.

De-chlorinator: API
Procedure: 7 drops per 3 gallon bucket. Wait for anything between 5-20 mins before adding water to tank.

Ammonia Test Kit: Red Sea brand.
Procedure: Rinse vial with tank water, fill 3ml with tank water, add one tiny scoop of powder reagent A, shake for 2 seconds, add 5 drops of liquid reagent B, shake for 20 seconds, wait for 5 mins

Nitrite Test Kit: API brand
Procedure: Rinse vial with tank water, fill 5ml with tank water, add 5 drops of the solution, share for 10 seconds, wait for 5 mins

Tap water readings:
Ammonia: 0.25-0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm

Thanks.
 
Good, I'm glad you feel some things have started to clear up.

I'll try to answer some more questions and you still have several problems to work on.

Ammonia in the water supply is pretty common. Remember, these are *parts per million* we're talking about, in your case a quarter or a half of one part per million -- this is not the kind of ammonia that's going to bother humans in any way. But for fish it is indeed significant, which is why we have biological filters and why we fishless cycle.

It turns out not to be an issue for a fishkeeper because once the filter has cycled, it has more than enough power to quickly remove the 0.25ppm or 0.50ppm of ammonia in the tap water. Its just something you have to be aware of when adding some ammonia for a fishless cycle (if you were doing that, which you're not currently) because it means you'll actually add slightly less ammonia to acheive the desired concentration in the tank. It also means that later, after your aquarium is running normally, it will be slightly more desirable to do two smaller water changes instead of one big water change in those circumstances where this can be reasonably done. A smaller water change exposes the fish to less ammonia of course and then the filter removes it.

OK, so back to your fishless cycle. To the extent that you are getting higher than 0.25ppm (in other words if the 0.50 ppm is for real) then yes, that's not great for that last guppy and it again means using a higher -frequency- and a lower -percentage- of tap water in your fish-in cycle water changes will be desirable. So where one person might do a giant water change, getting them to zero ammonia and giving them two days to get back to 0.25ppm, you might have to do one each day or twice a day but make them smaller, so that the new ammonia coming in from the tap will be more diluted by your tank water that's already there.

Now about this fishless cycle. Its really a pretty helpless affair now I'm afraid. One small guppy is really just going to make the fish-in cycling process extremely slow. Its going to be loads better for you to find a way to re-home this last guppy and do a proper fishless cycle. I'm sure there's going to be some way to find either a local fish shop (you can promise them you'll come in and buy some fish and supplies in return!) or some other hobbyist who will take a single guppy.

OK, yet another problem: the Whisper filter! I think we should get some discussion going among the members about this. I think we've had this discussion before. There are some ways to make these things work, although they don't have much biofiltration capacity I don't think. It may be that some people slit the carbon paks and dump out the carbon and replace it with sponge or ceramics. Perhaps there's a way to get some ceramic rings into this thing, I think we've said that before but this filter worries me.

Finally, I think you asked about the getting the "nitrite processing bacteria" (the N-Bacs as we say for short) going. The thing you have to understand about these strange chemoautolithotrophic bacteria is that they are just plain slow to grow, and luckily they are also tough and slow to die once you've got a good colony grown. What I like to tell people is to remember that at its best, this hobby is all about slowing down, relaxing, getting away from computers and cell phones and noisy normal life and just taking your time! And getting it all set up and going in the first few months is the first test of whether you can make youself have the patience to do this! Yes, we like to do various little things to optimize our cycles, but in reality these things just often take up around 2 months to get all worked out. Of course, its only this once and then you'll have bacteria for as long as you keep tanks running and will be able to clone any new tanks without going through another fishless cycle.

OK, hopefully I've given you enough to chew on for a while,
~~waterdrop~~
 
I will manage to rehome my guppy. Any idea where to get the ammonia for fishless cycling from?
OK, in Falls Church Va. turn left out of your driveway and... :lol:
Its part of the adventure of the hobby.. the finding of pure household ammonia.. the stuff of legends.
In east coastal USA I'd start with the biggest grocery stores (I got mine in a Harris Teeter in the mop and broom section but I don't think Teeter reaches up there (?)) and I'd check for any Ace Hardware stores. Beyond that I'd just start check mop and broom sections of hardware and bigbox stores. Some have found a "Goldex" brand in Walmart. Here and there in the world people get help from their pharmacist/chemist. Some find help from friends connected with lab supplies.

It needs to not have dyes, fragrances, surfactants or soaps and it needs to not foam but just produce bubbles for 2 or 3 seconds when shaken. Usually its perfectly clear. Good Luck and report the details of any success and the members are always interested.

~~waterdrop~~
 
:) thanks.

We have Harris Teeter here. I will make a visit soon.
I think I remember the Harris Teeter bottle as a frosted-clearish plastic 1 liter or so clorox-style bottle with a white and blue label, usually placed on the bottom shelf where all the other floor cleaners and the like are...
 
I found it at Harris Teeter exactly where you said. I had to resist my urge to buy the "lemon flavored" ammonia.
I also gave out my guppy to a friend.

Now what? I have about zero ammonia in my tank and more than 5ppm of nitrite. What will be the point of adding more ammonia other than feeding existing ammonia processing bacteria? I have waited and waited for my nitrite to drop in the past with no luck.

Another question, the bottle of ammonia does not tell the concentration of ammonia in the liquid. The calculator on this forum defaults to 9.5% (http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm). Is that a standard or does this bottle have a different concentration?

Thanks for your comments so far, you wont believe how much I appreciate them!
 
OK great! You're now ready to switch over from a fish-in cycle to a fishless cycle!

We want to preserve any start you've got on your two bacteria species in the filter, so we'll not touch that of course. I'd do a 90% (complete down to the gravel basically) water change just to get started off nicely.

OK, so how do we determine the amount of ammonia you'll be putting in the tank. In the USA, the percentage of ammonia in bottles of aqueous ammonia is frequently not marked. In practice that doesn't matter much because there's no such thing as a stable percentage of this stuff anyway(!) and it should always be tested. I like doing it in a two gallon bucket but you can do whatever. I think the harris-teeter stuff is usually weaker than the 9.5% common in UK but there's no telling.

Common ways to dispense are milliliter-marked syringes, eye droppers or teaspoons. Whatever you use, be sure to have pen and paper to record intermediate results as you test. Its tedious. You want to guesstimate low and test your way up to some number of ml that gives you a nice 4 or 5ppm ammonia concentration. I started out counting drops from an eyedropper but later translated that to "squirts" of the eyedropper. Actual amounts of ammonia delivered during fishless cycling are not really important until near the very end, but being consistent can help you understand things better. If you -do- have ml markings, you could assume 5% ammonia and use the ammonia calculator to.. just to give you a starting guesstimate that should be low.

Once you determine and write down an amount in ml that should give your tank 4ppm in the future, you'll still want to observe that closely in the first weeks to see if you need to refine it some but eventually it'll be a set thing.

Now that you're all set you might want to start a new fishless cycling thread and have the first post be where you put single lines to report test results by simply editing the same post over and over. Look at some of the other beginners (I think (martinking?) has a good one).. Post up your tank size, test kit, tap stats, filter media, filter etc etc before the results lines start.

Of course, now do your Day 1 dosing of ammonia to the tank and begin posting/recording ammonia and pH each 24 hours at the same time of day. Well, in your case, since its a transfer from fish-in, go ahead and be doing all the stats: ammonia, nitrite, pH and nitrate. Just a few nitrates to start then can do them occasionally, as they're more trouble and don't tell us much during fishless cycling but are a better test later when maintaining the tank.

~~waterdrop~~
 

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