Hi New On Here And Wondering...

[lee_k]

i really have no waste problem tho which is strange, unless the other bottom feeders are cleaning up?

i find the 5 barb like fish just stick together and occasionally chase one another rather than ever chase the gourami's

I know about the clown loach needing groups but as explained he wasnt planned and i knew i wouldnt be able have more, this one doesnt seem shy which is apparently strange for them, he often pops his head out the log and as i write this now he is right at the front swimming around - however i didnt realise the size in which he could potentially grow to!

I know people are helping not nagging and im glad of the help/advice i just didnt think my setup was such a failure... lol


thanks
lee

 

[LiveYourLife]

Its not a failure...Just a few tweeks and we'll be sorted

 

[lee_k]

hopefully, its just wether to trade them in or weather get someone who knows what there doing have them. The fish shop will more than likely sell them to somewhere less suitable than mine. But at least if i tank them a shop i can get some £££'s back

 

[Synaesthesia]

You have to realize where on the internet you are, lee k. The majority of people on this forum are fanatical and very stringent about the health and set-up of fish and the tanks they reside in. Just like in every hobby there are extremes of people -- those who get fish to look at them and care less about adhering to stocking rules for example, and those who put the fish's wellbeing first. I know that the former sounds inhumane, but IMHO both are FINE. You just have to choose. They are, after all, fish and not human beings (I know I will get flamed for saying this, but it's just how I see animals).

If you asked anyone on the other extreme if your tank was okay they'd say "yeah, of course, those fish are awesome to look at." Your tank is overstocked for sure, but if your fish have been staying alive then it's not a horrible, inhuman thing to do. You're not inflicting horrible constant pain on the fish. They might be a little more stressed out and you might stunt their growth a little (which I fail to see the problem with.... birds do the same) but that's it. It's not IDEAL, but it's not a terrible failure.

Like I said you have to choose and realize to what kind of people you are asking these questions.

~Synaesthesia

 

[lee_k]

Very true i suppose

thanks for the comments

lee

 

[Wills]

You have to realize where on the internet you are, lee k. The majority of people on this forum are fanatical and very stringent about the health and set-up of fish and the tanks they reside in. Just like in every hobby there are extremes of people -- those who get fish to look at them and care less about adhering to stocking rules for example, and those who put the fish's wellbeing first. I know that the former sounds inhumane, but IMHO both are FINE. You just have to choose. They are, after all, fish and not human beings (I know I will get flamed for saying this, but it's just how I see animals).

If you asked anyone on the other extreme if your tank was okay they'd say "yeah, of course, those fish are awesome to look at." Your tank is overstocked for sure, but if your fish have been staying alive then it's not a horrible, inhuman thing to do. You're not inflicting horrible constant pain on the fish. They might be a little more stressed out and you might stunt their growth a little (which I fail to see the problem with.... birds do the same) but that's it. It's not IDEAL, but it's not a terrible failure.

Like I said you have to choose and realize to what kind of people you are asking these questions.

~Synaesthesia

wow that is just beyond insulting if im honest with you. We are not fanatical we just do things right there are many miss sold fish in the trade and we are the few that are trying to change this - even if its one tank at a time! My god I am just lost for words. A 1 foot fish does not belong in a 3 foot tank end of its like keeping a labrador in a cupboard. To the OP if you really agree with Synaesthesia maybe this isnt the board for you and to Synaesthesia why do you even have an account? Your wasting our time and your own !

 

[Curiosity101]

Synaesthesia - People like you do my head in, 'They're just animals', 'They're not people', 'I own them I'll do what I like, whilstever they're alive that's fine'... We're not 'fanaticals' just believe in doing things the right way... Which is basically, if the fish doesn't fit in the tank, then get one that does...there are plenty to choose from.

To OP - I do agree with all of the above, and if you wanted to move on the unsuitable fish I would suggest doing it via the forum. Most people on here would know what care and conditions the fish require, and more often than not will actually pay much more than a local fish shop would. So it's definitely something to consider.

And although I commend you for removing the fish from the tank they were in originally, that doesn't mean that 'better' is actually OK.
I'll comprise a list of more appropriately sized replacements...just to give you a feel...
Pleco - L260 Pleco, L270 Pleco, L066 Pleco (just a few examples and there are HUNDREDS of L-number plecos that would suit your sized tank so much better)
Clown Loach - Corys (Julli, Sterbai, Panda, Peppered)
Weather Loach - Kuhli loach or dwarf chain loach

The rest of your fish are reasonably sized for the tank, it's just there are too many and/or a bad mix.
I also think you have too many bottom dwellers, judging by your pictures and the height of the tank it looks very empty.
If it were me I would....
Rehome: Pleco, Clown Loach, Weather Loach, All Barbs and female fighter.
Replace the plec + loaches with one or 2 of the suggestions above. And replace the barbs with a large group of tetra or possibly even dwarf rainbow fish.

The rainbow fish/tetra in a large shoal (say 10-15) would really fill up that top-middle area which at the moment is empty.

Oh by the way, what are you tanks stats?

 

[Synaesthesia]

Synaesthesia - People like you do my head in, 'They're just animals', 'They're not people', 'I own them I'll do what I like, whilstever they're alive that's fine'... We're not 'fanaticals' just believe in doing things the right way... Which is basically, if the fish doesn't fit in the tank, then get one that does...there are plenty to choose from.

Did I say anything about how I choose to take care of my fish? I was simply explaining to him that in any hobby there is always such a dichotomy of people.

In fact, I practice everything you stand for -- I don't overstock my tanks, I clean and do water changes frequently, and I take care of my fish. I CHOOSE to take care of them like this, not because doing otherwise would be a horrible, sinful, immoral act. There's a huge difference between IDEAL and good. While it is noble to seek ideal environments for fish, it's not necessarily realistic.

Finally, I was not aware "fanatic" was a word with negative connotations -- I often hear hobbyists calling themselves fanatics. i.e. "I'm a fish fanatic" It was not meant as an insult, so if you took it that way I apologize

And I won't even go into the whole "fish are just animals" argument. At the end of the day fish are fish and how each person interprets that varies. My opinion differs from yours and I shouldn't be attacked for it.

You can see fish as just animals and still take great care of them -- shocking, I know.

 

[Curiosity101]

Why would you suggest that treating fish as 'just fish' or 'owned property' was acceptable then? If you don't treat them like that then you obviously do it for a reason...so why is it?

And also how is it 'not neccesarily realistic'? You wouldn't get a Great Dane if you lived in a flat (if you were getting a dog), same applies to tanks. There are fish suitable for all different sizes...so you pick what is correct for you, because once you buy that animal you are responsible for it's care.

That's all I will ever say to people, get the fish suitable to your tank, and only put fish together that are suitable to live with one another. Their needs have to come before our wants.

 

[Synaesthesia]

Why would you suggest that treating fish as 'just fish' or 'owned property' was acceptable then? If you don't treat them like that then you obviously do it for a reason...so why is it?

And also how is it 'not neccesarily realistic'? You wouldn't get a Great Dane if you lived in a flat (if you were getting a dog), same applies to tanks. There are fish suitable for all different sizes...so you pick what is correct for you, because once you buy that animal you are responsible for it's care.

That's all I will ever say to people, get the fish suitable to your tank, and only put fish together that are suitable to live with one another. Their needs have to come before our wants.

I do think it's acceptable to treat fish as "just fish or owned property." It's not ideal or the best possible situation, but... I don't think it's a crime. I treat my fish well because I want them to live as long as possible.

I don't really have a preference as to how other people treat their fish. Obviously if a person have 10 fish in a little drinking glass with acid and no food, I'm going to chime in and say something, but I'm not going to evangelize my own methods. All I ever meant to explain was that the OP had a choice regarding how he treats his fish, instead of crucifying him and trying to force my own perspective down his throat. To each his own.

His fish are alive, which implies that all of their needs are being met in his current tank. I choose not to fixate on treating something as insignificant as a fish with luxury, but that's a personal opinion (you may see fish as very significant -- that's okay and I respect you for that).

I think this really all just comes down to a common case of the "my opinions are better than yours and you are wrong" internet argument. Like I said, to each his own.

 

[indigoj]

"The rainbow fish/tetra in a large shoal (say 10-15) would really fill up that top-middle area which at the moment is empty."

Just to clarify, even dwarf rainbows need a minimum 3ft swimming space and IME 4ft is infinitely better. THey are extremely active swimmers.

Nice top dwellers could be hatchet fish or panchax with - if the barbs are kept - those as mid swimmers.

Zebra Loach or a group of cories would make a nice active bottom with a bristle nose being an excellent plec for this size tank (just one easily found/cheap option)

OP where are you based?

 

[Wills]

Why would you suggest that treating fish as 'just fish' or 'owned property' was acceptable then? If you don't treat them like that then you obviously do it for a reason...so why is it?

And also how is it 'not neccesarily realistic'? You wouldn't get a Great Dane if you lived in a flat (if you were getting a dog), same applies to tanks. There are fish suitable for all different sizes...so you pick what is correct for you, because once you buy that animal you are responsible for it's care.

That's all I will ever say to people, get the fish suitable to your tank, and only put fish together that are suitable to live with one another. Their needs have to come before our wants.

I do think it's acceptable to treat fish as "just fish or owned property." It's not ideal or the best possible situation, but... I don't think it's a crime. I treat my fish well because I want them to live as long as possible.

I don't really have a preference as to how other people treat their fish. Obviously if a person have 10 fish in a little drinking glass with acid and no food, I'm going to chime in and say something, but I'm not going to evangelize my own methods. All I ever meant to explain was that the OP had a choice regarding how he treats his fish, instead of crucifying him and trying to force my own perspective down his throat. To each his own.

His fish are alive, which implies that all of their needs are being met in his current tank. I choose not to fixate on treating something as insignificant as a fish with luxury, but that's a personal opinion (you may see fish as very significant -- that's okay and I respect you for that).

I think this really all just comes down to a common case of the "my opinions are better than yours and you are wrong" internet argument. Like I said, to each his own.

Its not a case of whos right and whos wrong. Treating fish right especially from a stocking point of view is not hard - if you want a plec in a 3 foot tank get one that will stop growing at 4-6 inches there are tons that fit this bill. Thats ALL we are saying and that is right. At the end of the day all we do is give out advice if people dont listen then there is nothing we can do, but eventually something goes wrong, disease, fighting, fish cant turn around in the tank etc. This is how people learn by making mistakes but basically we here try and pass on our mistakes or other peoples mistakes we have learned from to prevent other people from making mistakes and by this stopping them waste money and time.
Wills

 

[lee_k]

"The rainbow fish/tetra in a large shoal (say 10-15) would really fill up that top-middle area which at the moment is empty."

Just to clarify, even dwarf rainbows need a minimum 3ft swimming space and IME 4ft is infinitely better. THey are extremely active swimmers.

Nice top dwellers could be hatchet fish or panchax with - if the barbs are kept - those as mid swimmers.

Zebra Loach or a group of cories would make a nice active bottom with a bristle nose being an excellent plec for this size tank (just one easily found/cheap option)

OP where are you based?

Hi all,

sorry about causing this arguement. Im based in staffordshire. Luckily im off work today/tomorrow so looks like im going to have a busy few days trying to sort this out.

As regards tank stats ill test them this morning as atm im still being lazy lying in bed.

As regards the smaller plecos, do anyone know the more common name for them so i can have a hunt around my LHS.

Also, sad to say it, but anyone interested in my plec or clown?

Thanks
Lee

 

[indigoj]

If you were closer I'd have taken them.

Bristlenose plecs are a good choice but there are loads you could choose from - have a look on planetcatfish - be warned though, some of the fancier ones get expensive!

Oh are you've not caused the row, someone who thinks of fish as objects did....

 

[lee_k]

i dont think he meant it like that, he was just saying what others would say like jo blogs in the street would say its ok as someone into fish wouldnt. Think he comment was more about me getting it wrong rather than his views.

Im going have to go along to my local shop this morning see if there buying in as they might not be given the current climate

Thanks
Lee