Help! ?bacterial Bloom With Ammonia 0Ppm And Nitrite 0Ppm

[Mamashack]

Yesterday I set up my old 30L tank in order to make some room in the 60L for the influx of yet another batch of platy fry expected within the week. I had put the sponge for the newly set-up tank next to the Fluval U1 filter in the 60L for just over a week to seed it. Transferred some of the fry yesterday - 5 in total - 1x14wk old, 2x9wk old and 2x4wk old. Had originally wanted to transfer mum so that it could be a nursery tank - however she proved to be very elusive and wouldn't be caught and was getting quite stressed about it so I decided to make room by transferring the fry instead.
 
30L water stats (transferred 16L from the 60L then topped up with dechlorinated tap water):
Day 1 yesterday - Ammonia and nitrite tested twice - both negative, both times. other stats pH7.8, nitrate 10ppm, temp 24º
Day 2 today - Ammonia and nitrite tested this morning both negative. Came home from work this evening to find the 30L tank very cloudy and all the fry gasping at the surface. I am almost certain it is a bacterial bloom. The ammonia and nitrite tested negative again, however the gasping at the surface really worried me. I have read posts on here about bacterial blooms and there seems to be conflicting advice - some say leave it alone and it will go away on its own - others say do 50% water changes every 20 mins whilst others still say that can make it worse!
 
Anyway because of the gasping I've done a 50% water change, turned out the light as the temperature had gone up from 24º-26ºC since this morning and I'm sure the light is responsible - no heater in there yet (just as well!) The fry have now moved away from the surface, but are not moving much and the cloudiness has diminished a bit.
Do I do more water changes before I go to bed in a couple of hours or wait and see how the fish are behaving? If I do water changes will it make the problem worse? I don't really understand about the 2 different types of bacteria other than the bloom is probably caused by the quick growing variety rather than the beneficial ones we all try to protect.
 
Can anyone please advise? I know it's a tall order, but I would appreciate some advice really soon! Why do these things always seem to happen at night?
 
Tank info in signature but happy to answer any questions if I've left relevant details out.
Many thanks!
 
 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Change more water. The bacteria that cause the bloom are extremely fast growing. They also use oxygen. If you are feeding a lot for the fry, this is likely the "cause". Since you do not want to stop/reduce feeding, water changes may be needed for a while.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks TwoTank - I'm actually only feeding the fry once a day at present. I will do more water changes if you think they are a good idea. What do you suggest? 50% or more and how many should I do before getting off to bed in about 1½ hours?

 

[Mamashack]

Have just done another water change 60% this time and the water is much clearer and the fish are active swimming now. Will try to do a couple more before I go to bed and hope that it doesn't get out of hand overnight.
Did I not allow enough time for the sponge to seed sufficiently or would this situation have arisen anyway? Have never experienced it before.

 

[mark4785]

A hazy bacterial bloom usually comes about in reaction to the aquarium lights. It is my guess that this prompts them to use CO2 to grow but when the light is no longer on, they revert to utilising oxygen in the dark. This may explain the gasping you've described. As already advised, keep doing water changes. Ensure you use lots of de-chlorinator and ensure it is evenly distributed before applying any new tap water.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks Mark I'm aiming to do another water change before I go to bed. Am so glad I bought a water pump and hose - makes the whole process so much easier!!
I'm currently using API Stress Coat as the dechlorinator and adding 5ml to approx.16L replacement water so more than double the recommended dose which is 5ml to 40L water.

 

[mark4785]

Yesterday I set up my old 30L tank in order to make some room in the 60L for the influx of yet another batch of platy fry expected within the week. I had put the sponge for the newly set-up tank next to the Fluval U1 filter in the 60L for just over a week to seed it. 

 
In doing this, the said sponge will have some ability to process ammonia (ammonia typically is consumed by Nitromonas bacteria at the end of week 1. Prior to 7 days, there wouldn't be any Nitrosomonas colony) but it will NOT have any ability to process nitrite whatsoever since you need a nitrobacter colony to consume this which typically forms 4-5 weeks after a sponge is added to a filtration system.
 
Given the above, I think this bloom is the beginning of an algal formation (perhaps green water algae) in response to microscopic ammonia and nitrite levels. If you add fry to this aquarium I'm afraid that the ammonia they produce through their gills and anus will increase your ammonia and nitrite levels to deadly levels.
 
If I were you, I'd keep the fry in your main aquarium and sell them as fast as possible to a local fish store so you don't end up with an ammonia problem in their too due to the increased waste that the fry will produce. You may want to consider buying a breeding net for the 60 litre aquarium to segregate them from fish that may otherwise eat them.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks Mark I'll give it overnight - see what happens. I'm checking ammonia and nitrites twice daily, but I know it's coming up to the critical time at Day 3 so I'll be extra vigilant. I agree that it might be algae related as there was a slight residue left on the outflow bucket and when I touched it, it was green on my finger.
I'm not worried about some of the fry getting eaten to be honest - it's survival of the fittest and fastest in my tank I'm afraid. I was just concerned about the stocking level. Have already had words with my LFS and they are only interested in the fry from 3 months onwards and since only 1 of my fry fits that criteria it doesn't help much at this stage.
If I get a spike in ammonia or nitrite or if the bloom continues I'll definitely move the fry back to the main tank.
Thanks for all your support - I'll update tomorrow all being well.

 

[mark4785]

Thanks Mark I'll give it overnight - see what happens. I'm checking ammonia and nitrites twice daily, but I know it's coming up to the critical time at Day 3 so I'll be extra vigilant. I agree that it might be algae related as there was a slight residue left on the outflow bucket and when I touched it, it was green on my finger.
I'm not worried about some of the fry getting eaten to be honest - it's survival of the fittest and fastest in my tank I'm afraid. I was just concerned about the stocking level. Have already had words with my LFS and they are only interested in the fry from 3 months onwards and since only 1 of my fry fits that criteria it doesn't help much at this stage.
If I get a spike in ammonia or nitrite or if the bloom continues I'll definitely move the fry back to the main tank.
Thanks for all your support - I'll update tomorrow all being well.

 
I've never had fish fry so I can't really give you an opinion of how they will deal with highered ammonia/nitrite. I do know that fry are supposed to be very sensitive so it is my guess that you (I'm sorry to say this) may lose most of them if they are subject to an ammonia/nitrite spike.

 

[Mamashack]

Thankfully there has been no spike in either so far, but I promise I am being vigilant. I will continue to monitor ammonia, nitrite levels twice a day and nitrate daily for now unless results dictate more frequently. The tank is crystal clear this morning, ammonia and nitrite levels still at 0 ppm with no obvious sign of the bloom. Temp this am is 24º without light or heat overnight. Haven't put the light on yet - I may have left it on too long yesterday which gave whatever caused the bloom the light and the temperature to flourish. I think I'll only put it on for a few hours today. It's going to be a balancing act as the plants need a certain amount of light and they will be taking up some of the ammonia etc directly thro their leaves.
The fry are swimming about this morning unlike their behaviour last night gasping at the surface. Phew! I know we're not out of the woods yet and I'm now treating it as a fish-in cycle since I clearly didn't leave the sponge to seed for long enough! 

 

[Mamashack]

I have now done a complete about turn and returned the fry to the main tank. I am going to implement fishless cycling in the 30L using Kleenoff. I'll follow the ammonia dosing advice on the TFF calculator to get the level to 5ppm - am hoping the nitrite converting bacteria don't take too long to develop as the fry are due within the next week, but if there's a delay it can't be helped - I'll just have to do more frequent water changes in the 60L until the 30L is cycled.
Thanks for your help everyone!

 

[Mamashack]

Well the fishless cycling is under way with ammonia currently at 4ppm with no reduction in 24 hours so clearly the sponge hadn't seeded much at all. Thanks for giving me a nudge Mark - it may just have saved my fry!

 

[mark4785]

Well the fishless cycling is under way with ammonia currently at 4ppm with no reduction in 24 hours so clearly the sponge hadn't seeded much at all. Thanks for giving me a nudge Mark - it may just have saved my fry!

 
Glad to have helped you.
 
I'm doing a fishless cycle like yourself. I'm on day 8 and my ammonia has only reduced from 4 to 2 ppm, so it's a long and drawn out process but one that is very beneficial if its done properly.
 
Just keep topping up your ammonia to 4ppm every time it drops to 0ppm. Keep the temperature at 28 degrees C and add some bicarbonate of soda to raise your PH to 8.2 as this has been known to speed up the cycling process.
 
 
Best of luck!

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks Mark
The pH is currently running at 7.8 and I've got the temperature jacked up to 29° too.
I've also heard that it's best to redose at 1ppm rather than letting it get right down to 0 so the bacteria aren't starved for any length of time. I'll continue testing daily and hope to see a reduction soon but I'll not hold my breath. I think this sponge needs to grow a lot more bacteria before I see any real change.
Good luck with yours. Hopefully you'll see some nitrites sooner rather than later tho it will probably be a few more days for you yet.
Have you decided how you are going to stock the tank when it's finished cycling?

 

[mark4785]

Thanks Mark
Have you decided how you are going to stock the tank when it's finished cycling?

 
I'm wanting to put a pair of German Blue Rams in there. They are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite fluctuations so I may originally need to put Black Neon Tetras in there if there are mini ammonia spikes to begin with. Won't be putting anymore fish in there as from experience GBR's hate community fish getting in their way.
 
Hoping to put some floating Amazon Frogbit in for cover and get it fully planted up. Also looking into getting the Dennerle PH controller which shuts off injected CO2 when its approaching it's higher limit as GBR's are the first to gasp when there's too much.
 
What are your stocking plans?