Dijon Has Spawned

[theshadowinc]

Whoops.

I think i got it. I said INTER-Breeding when i actually meant IN-Breeding.

Was that it?

yuppers, I also explained the difference between inbred and line bred above, eaither way inbreeding is kinda a bad thing, line breeding is different, still a type of inbreeding but its known as line breeding to get a certain aspect of the fish out or to carry on
Rule of thumb for inbreeding is still 2 and thats it you can follow a line and then get what you are looking for and inbreed. I have 2 pair of bettas one I am workin on breeding Silver stripes into the males tail this will be done with a dragon delta tail and he is a halfmoon a very lazy halfmoon but he does go the entire 180 degrees Mother and Father are from different families (Different breeds so meaning they are being outbred) and I will follow the best line possible to get the perfect red tail with silver stripes inbetween when flaring (Might try and work out the silver scales its from a marble colour) The other pair I have are brother and sister I will breed almost true albino means no marble to them at all, male is the only one with some marble and its hard to notice, female is pure white. This means the offspring will be pure white most of them and some marble The male is a true halfmoon as well and the female is a super delta I believe but the female isn't done growing yet only 3 months old. If i was good with a camera I would take pictures for everyone but I ain't that good on doing betta's they move to #41#### much. 100 photos and still don't have one of him flaring where its noticable

hope it cleared things up for you the entire read of the line breeding and inbreeding as well as interbreeding, cichlids and gourmis dwarf ones are the only ones I know that can interbreed but I don't have experience in the interbreeding part at all so I would be a bad one to ask

 

[StrontiumDog]

amazing

with breeding, i am slightly confused, i have read of people buying a pair of siblings for breeding. surely this will cause problems with interbreeding?

Bettas, as with quite a few other fish can be interbreed to produce more *stronger* related lines

Oh and to the OP: you can get Vinegar Eel from Ebay

WRONG!

Take the black strain for example you can't interbreed them and why?

Bettas can only be inbred so many times before your entire fry end up with deformities, many fish can be inbred like mentioned mother and son and father and dughter you actually follow inbreeding it is different then line breeding, line breeding, that method mentioned is called line breeding where you take a mother and a son and breed them the entire thing that is going on is you are trying to get colours out of the line or make certain colours and finage and tail types more dominate. Inbreeding is taking daughter and son and after about your 3rd breed of doing that you start seeing deformities, after about the 5th time its not good the entire batch is done! Line breeding is different, and will last as much as 8 lines. The rule of thumb is no more than 2 generations for inbreeding. When ever you are inbreeding you have to remember you have to outcross due to the genes, and that goes for any fish. Really people should not look at inbreeding but yet look at line breeding thats how you keep the fish looking amazing

Mainly there are 2 types line breeding and inbreeding both are different line breeding can be done with almost any fish, actually never read where is didn't work out! Inbreeding thats a different story! Your show bettas are done by line breeding not by inbreeding, knowing the difference is a huge step to anyone willing to follow a line and can take years to follow just one line!

And dog its by far your last breed lol, pretty soon you will have more tanks or jars in the house lol, did you up the feedings?? and added more water changes??

BTW I have lots of vinager eals but where are you located I could ship you some out for just the postage

i have read that twice, but my brain doesnt work.

so, is breeding siblings and buying siblings wrong? or just father and daughter (eg) just wrong?

my brain is on go slow tonight for some reason

Okay sorry about the hijack of thread lol, but have to explain in easier terms
Inbreeding = Son and Daughter
Line Breeding = Father and Daughter
Line Breeding = Mother and Son

Both can be done what most do is do line breeding till they get perfect finage or colour then they go to inbreeding and never to it more than 2 times in the inbred meaning siblings son and daughter
Both have ups and downs so more less both have pros and cons, I have seen bad resaults from both and seen good resaults from both usually line breeding is the best method Here is an example of a line breeding then using the siblings for inbreeding no more than 2 times

Line Breeding
Mother and Son 1st bred
Mother and Son from above batch 2nd bred(Might get a few defective)
Mother and Son from Above batch 3rd bred(Might get a few defective)
Now take Sister and Brother from above batch and breed them
Son and Daughter (Might get some defective fish)
Son and Daughter from above batch(You will get some defective fish)
then you don't continue in the line anymore, you outbreed

Inbreeding
This is what leads to your lfs having defected fish
Mother and father 1st bred (Assuming from different families)
Son and Daughter 2nd bred <- Some defective is why we cull fish
Son and Daughter from above 3rd Bred <- Defective fish!

With defective fish what we do is cull them another words we destroy them, example would be a spine that is not straight, or belly sliders, its always easier to cull fish right after they hatch means less to feed for raising and means the best possible fish out of the deal

No worries mate, it's good reading and it clarifies everything for everyone

 

[StrontiumDog]

At last a new micro worm culture has arrived, was starting to worry as it's taken 6 days.

I did start a batch from the last lot but, again another boob by me. The mixure was too thick and I supose a little to dry, but have been spraying water on them and they are just starting to produce.

So I must leave myself some reminders to start some more off in 5-7 days time.

 

[finalfantay85]

How are they looking now dude? Got any new pics of them?

 

[Big_eyes]

They're looking great! Something I'd love to have the time and patience for sometime in the future.

I was reading up out of curiosity on general breeding 'rules' earlier and it didn't really seem too clear. It said that it's best to cover the tank and leave the old fella to keep watch on the babies and not to let him ever see you near the tank or he would eat them.

Sounds a bit too overcautious to me? How would you ever know what's going on? Would it be a case of don full camo gear complete with infared goggles in the midst of complete darkness?

 

[StrontiumDog]

How are they looking now dude? Got any new pics of them?

They are looking quite well, poberbly starving though. Due to lack of micro worms for the past 6 days, i've been more worried about them surviving than taking pics. All though in my eyes they have still grown a bit. I counted 20 so a couple have been hiding, and i've not seen any dead ones yet.

They're looking great! Something I'd love to have the time and patience for sometime in the future.

I was reading up out of curiosity on general breeding 'rules' earlier and it didn't really seem too clear. It said that it's best to cover the tank and leave the old fella to keep watch on the babies and not to let him ever see you near the tank or he would eat them.

Sounds a bit too overcautious to me? How would you ever know what's going on? Would it be a case of don full camo gear complete with infared goggles in the midst of complete darkness?

I know what you mean, cover the the whole thing how the hell are you to know whats going on. I think that sort of thing is really used when you have a lot of things going on around the tank 24/7. If they are used to an enviroment where they are not secluded and used to so things happening around them, it might not be needed.

I did cover the front of the tank in a fashion, but left a small opening under the nest so I could see what was happening. Hench the pic of the eggs and the new born fry.

 

[theshadowinc]

Covering the entire tank and suranwrap on the top to keep the heat in, thats normally done with wild bettas when breeding and doesn't qualify for the kind of breeding most of us do, if they are a wild pair, like one of mine you might run into issues with nest building etc if you dont' cover the tank its also recommened to cover the tank so you keep the heat in. Eaither way I don't even follow those rules with wild bettas, I just use the almond leaf method much much easier.

my pics are up I told you I would have a look and be amazed at my crowntail I paid an arm and leg for that thing, still not sure what i am going to do for a real female for it maybe not even bother and just use a dragon line for it not sure yet so many choices with a black and they are normally only good for breeding.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/314397-pictures-finally/

Are you using BBS to feed the young I would recommend this even if a hacthery is expensive or you need to make your own hatchery its well worth it, Feedings should be altered say in one day you do 1 bbs, then Microworms, then vinager eals etc never the same food over and over again, reason is it makes it alot easier to introduce new foods to them later on when you need to weind them off of live

Enjoy

 

[finalfantay85]

It's cool to know they are still doing well, if a tad hungry at the moment
If your microworms aren't ready soon you might not wanna be putting your fingers in there with them

 

[StrontiumDog]

Covering the entire tank and suranwrap on the top to keep the heat in, thats normally done with wild bettas when breeding and doesn't qualify for the kind of breeding most of us do, if they are a wild pair, like one of mine you might run into issues with nest building etc if you dont' cover the tank its also recommened to cover the tank so you keep the heat in. Eaither way I don't even follow those rules with wild bettas, I just use the almond leaf method much much easier.

my pics are up I told you I would have a look and be amazed at my crowntail I paid an arm and leg for that thing, still not sure what i am going to do for a real female for it maybe not even bother and just use a dragon line for it not sure yet so many choices with a black and they are normally only good for breeding.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/314397-pictures-finally/

Are you using BBS to feed the young I would recommend this even if a hacthery is expensive or you need to make your own hatchery its well worth it, Feedings should be altered say in one day you do 1 bbs, then Microworms, then vinager eals etc never the same food over and over again, reason is it makes it alot easier to introduce new foods to them later on when you need to weind them off of live

Enjoy

I've got a BBS hatchary, from when my gouramis breed, just havn't got the extra air line at the moment.

I know what you mean by getting them off live foods though. I tried first bites, in the past few days that I didn't have micro worms and they refused to touch it. If it don't move they won't touch it, appart from when I tried freeze dried tubifex. They actualy ate some, not a lot, but enough to get by.

It's cool to know they are still doing well, if a tad hungry at the moment
If your microworms aren't ready soon you might not wanna be putting your fingers in there with them

No chance on nibbling my fingers, but they are starting to get a little bit to nosey at water changes So i've got to keep my eyes on them now other wise there going for a water ride.

Best bit is, on the larger ones I can see thier pelvic fins with the naked eye, so atleast they have been growing without a tremendous lot of food.

I'm going to transfer most if not all this thread to MS office and do a journal, so I can print it off too remind me of the mistakes i've made.

 

[Amberleaf]

I want more pictures~ *flails*

When I breed my Bettas, it'll probs be dried & freeze-dried food right from the start. hahaha.

 

[finalfantay85]

How old are they now, about a month? Any signs of colour or fin type yet?
Probably stupid questions but i've never bred fish lol

 

[theshadowinc]

you can slap me later mate but it just popped into my head as I am getting my live foods ready for when I start breeding mine, egg yolk with some frozen food ground up and put on an air stone or frozen in a cube, drop it in the tank and there ya go this is done within the first week, also I have used this to get them off of live food. Not only that but you can mix in your own stuff into your food, ie like pellets that have been ground to a powder with some high quality flake etc this is how you give them vitamins I forgot all about that just remembered now cause I am making my list for my foods for when I start and just remembered you when making my list lol, ya getting them off of live will be hard, reason they eat the blood worms tubifex is because it moves in the water they need to see it moving to eat it but thats not always true. I find its not hard to raise them actually lots of water changes and live feedings work well and breeding them more less mating them is easy usually, problem comes when you need to weind any fish off of live foods, especially these ones.

Have you upped the water changes?
Are you going to start them on bbs?

I bred gourmis man are they easy, actually ended up with a parasite of something not sure what happened when I changed them from a leaking tank into a cycled tank, turns out the tank I put them in was resealed and with the wrong stuff alot of fry gone I wasn't a happy camper and now reseal all my tanks myself
But now you got your feet wet in the breeding world hehe so when are the halfmoons coming?? TeHeHeHe

I think you are doing a good job for just getting your feet wet! So where are the pics??

 

[StrontiumDog]

Just a couple of pics using the RAW format on my camera.

In the first pic, You just about pick ouy the details of the scales.

Second pic, You can see the tail alot more clearly.

theshadowinc: Water changes have been upped, feeding aswell. Bbs not yet, still thinking about how to get around it if I do.
Thanks for the info on the egg yolks i'll may try that. Getting cory fry off the food they have started with can be a pain in the rear, but when they are hungry engough they change thier mind

finalfantay85: They are 31 days old today. No sign of colour, but second pic may hold a clue to someone eale to thier fin type.

Amberleaf: More pics just for you Think you'll find that if you try and breed them you're going to need live food. Micro worm are easy to keep, unless youre a total numpty like me, and leave growing the second culture too late. Vineger eel look just as easy.

 

[Big_eyes]

Make them grow faster!!

I can't wait to see how they turn out.

Can I reserve one now for purchase?

 

[StrontiumDog]

Make them grow faster!!

If I hadn't cocked up with the micro worm, they may have been bigger.

I can't wait to see how they turn out.

Nore can I and you're on the easy end LMAO.

Can I reserve one now for purchase? .

Be a bit hard for reserving one cause they all look the same ATM, and when they grow a bit more you may think uuurkkkk don't like them LOL.