Cycling….

[Ludwig Venter]

Please!... This is just to clear it in my own mind and I wish to make that clear before I start….

I know some people feel very strongly about this subject…. But please just allow me to just state my views on the subject, & I request that you look at it objectively/rationally…

I will appreciate your input, exclusively for my purposes and not to influence anybody to change their views or current methodology in doing things….

Before joining this forum, the word “cycling” never had any meaning to me…. I used to buy a tank, filters, fish, gravel, heater, and the rest of the equipment required, set it up, float the fish for 30 minutes and release them with no ill effects…….(honestly)…

This Christmas break period of 10 days, I stripped and washed 12 of my 40 odd tanks, and was completed at about 15h00 in the afternoon….. The very same afternoon at around 17h00, one of my guppies delivered 87 fry, which I immediately transferred to a 3ft tank, which was washed that same afternoon, and it was a bare tank with no gravel in it, just strong aeration… nothing else, (like I’ve done many, many times before), and I have absolutely no doubt about it, that I will raise (at least 85) of the 87 fry…..

Now, why is it considered necessary to cycle a tank (for up to six months) as it has been recommended in some threads before putting fish into it???

I repeat…. This is exclusively to clear it in my mind, and not to contradict anyone…

 

[Truck]

To be honest ludwig im with you, ive never fishless cycled. ive always done fish in cycling, i do the water changes etc to keep ammonia and nitrite at bay. but i start of very lightly stocked and work my way up and have had no problems ever.

 

[josh0013]

In my opinion, if you plan on taking care of the tank properly and you start off really low on stock... its not a problem at all. For those who don't change the water regularly and check the levels it tends to be a problem.

 

[your1stopshop]

The whole point of fishless cycling is to be able to add the maximum number of fish the tank will allow immediately to the tank, without having to slowly add fish and watch the levels. Also some people believe that subjecting the fish to a cycle is cruel, making it similar to a humans air supply being slightly poisened with carbon monoxide, thinking it's still cruel even if it doesn't kill them. Weather or not you think the stress from cycling is cruel or not, it may inflict stress on the fish that might cause problems. Thats why some people fishless cycle.

 

[Truck]

they wont be stressed if you keep doing WC

 

[Colin_T]

Fishless cycling should be done on any tank with an alkaline PH. This is due to ammonia being toxic in alkaline water. The higher the PH, the more toxic the ammonia becomes. By cycling the tank (developing the filter bacteria) before you add the fish, you don't have to worry about fish dieing from ammonia poisoning.
In tanks with acidic water there isn't really much need to worry about ammonia but nitrite can be a problem. While ammonia is toxic in alkaline water, nitrite is toxic in acid water. Again cycling a tank will prevent the fish being stressed from the nitrite that occurs while the filters develop the beneficial filter bacteria.

If you have fish in a tank and keep the feeding down, and monitor the water quality, and do water changes to keep the levels low, then having fish in a tank while the filters develop isn't a big issue. Having said all that, many beginner aquarists lose fish during the first few months due to over feeding and poor water quality (ammonia & nitrite levels). Fishless cycling limits the number of fish lost by new aquarists.

 

[Truck]

IMO fishless cycling should be used by beginnners, and those that wish to use it, but i feel once youve got a bit of expereince behind you belt and you know what your doing, a fish in cycle should be ok if you keep on top of water params

 

[Jazzzz]

I just clone all filters before use

I simply rinse tank throw in some sand, add plants and ornaments, fill with water, add declorinator, Leave for a bit, cut required filter media from media in external goldfish filter, pop it in the new filter, turn on and lightly stock.

 

[Ludwig Venter]

IMO fishless cycling should be used by beginnners, and those that wish to use it, but i feel once youve got a bit of expereince behind you belt and you know what your doing, a fish in cycle should be ok if you keep on top of water params

Trucka... You're touching one one of my other pet subjects here, which is "knowing your water prameters"??.... In 39 years, I've never posessed a test kit & got by breeding 35 different species... (Again), not to stir,.... I know, if I get a specific fish, this one needs this type of water, and that one needs that type of water, I just provide soft slightly acid water, or brackish water, etc. etc.... not testing.... Just for discussion, no arguments.

 

[Truck]

thats really interesting too, because when i first started i never tested the water and i had 6 guppies and they all lived till their potential age of 2 years

 

[Jazzzz]

I someimes go 2-4 weeks without doing a water change with no ill effects

 

[Inchworm]

This Christmas break period of 10 days, I stripped and washed 12 of my 40 odd tanks, and was completed at about 15h00 in the afternoon….. The very same afternoon at around 17h00, one of my guppies delivered 87 fry, which I immediately transferred to a 3ft tank, which was washed that same afternoon, and it was a bare tank with no gravel in it, just strong aeration… nothing else, (like I’ve done many, many times before), and I have absolutely no doubt about it, that I will raise (at least 85) of the 87 fry…..

Now, why is it considered necessary to cycle a tank (for up to six months) as it has been recommended in some threads before putting fish into it???

Hi Ludwig Venter

Like you, I never heard of doing a fishless cycle until I joined this forum. Even then, it was not a commonly used method, but it seems to be gaining in popularity. Now I just divide my filter media (that's come down from my original "fish in" cycled tank) and effectively "clone." tanks.

I raise corydoras and never cycle the fry tanks before they hatch. Since the tiny fry require daily water changes it's just not necessary. Once they are a few weeks old, I put in a sponge filter and (while still doing daily or frequent water changes) let it gradually grow its colony of beneficial bacteria. By the time the fry are big enough to start producing a lot of waste, the tank is cycled and the bacteria colony grows along with them.

I don't see any point in putting a big colony of bacteria into a tank that can only support a small number of them anyway. The bacteria will just die off to the level that the waste produced will support.

 

[doresy]

Ludwig you are an interesting person and by the number of tanks you have fishkeeping is a big part of your life.

Fishless cycling in the scheme of things in the fishkeeping world is a very new concept. My thoughts are, in the olden days before fishless cycling was thought up there was a lot of carnage within the hobby. I believe probably 75% of people knew of someone who had a tank but gave up because nothing would survive. Oh yes they knew that fish pooped but as long as the water was clear it was good Probably heard of ammonia but nitrite and nitrates were for the gardeners The more educated used loads of activated carbon but probably left it in there for months on end

Since news of fishless cycling has been spread by these forums (you wont hear it from the LFS as there is no profit in it for them) I feel that many more people are succeeding in the hobby.

My very 1st tank was kind of cycled as I just filled it with water and took a water sample to the LFS once a week for 2 months before they actually would sell me my first fish. I wasn't adding ammonia or food or anything.....oh wait, I remember now, yes they flogged me some of that liquid bulls**t 'Cycle'

Anyway, enough of my ramblings.......I believe in fishless cycling, and the tooth fairy and father christmas and............ no seriously, I think it's the way to go for most people unless you REALLY know your stuff

 

[Ludwig Venter]

Doresy!... I have learnt, & it is not difficult to deduct, that you are to the point, & express your views regardless of opinions... (& there are the few times that you have been discreet as well)...

Exclusively for this reason, I respect your views and I am pleased that you did respond to this question...., BUT, at the end of the day, a period of 6 month's cycling is prophetised by many... and also, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the "know your water stats" issue.... I can still be convinced....

(has anyone ever suggested to you to become a writer)... I like your style and choice of words (vocabulary)... Consider it.

 

[JustKia]

Ludwig, I presume from the number of tanks you have that you have been in the hobby for a long time and thus you have developed your own senses regarding your fish along with probably having your own maintenance schedule that you likely do under auto pilot.

When I had horses (OK I know nothing like fish) I could tell before a horse actually showed signs of illness that it wasn't 100% well just by picking up on little signs that I didn't even consciously realise, and that would prompt me to evaluate and investigate and thus deliver the required care very early and often prevent a condition developing.

I expect you pick up on little things as well as running your own schedule in your subconscious of x fish this big with this much filtration so I'll need to do y% water change every z days.
Now a newbie might have that skill (maybe from keeping other animals), but it can't be taught, or guaranteed so the best thing is to have people monitor water stats and be able to give potential helpers that info to assess possible problems.

As a kid I had several goldfish at different times. I knew nothing of tank cycles or filtration etc and my grandmother certainly didn't. So poor fishy got dumped in a bowl with tap water, and the bowl got washed out with tap water each week, along with the gravel and any decor and refilled with tap water. Needless to say my gold fish never lived very long =(