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Coronavirus...post your thoughts here...

wasmewasntit said:
Contentious subject warning

Watched a few programmes on Smithsonian last night.

History is definitely repeating itself. There have been epidemics and pandemics around every 100 to 150 years since 3000BC, the science boffins who have studied the cycle of epidemic and pandemic have come to the conclusion that its a form of natural selection, natures way of human population control. They also discovered that over the same amount of time the earth has suffered 4 or 5 species extinction episodes.

The easiest way to explain this is Mother Nature has decided there are too many humans, time to get rid of a few million in one go and the extinction episodes (not just the dinosaurs but it has happened to early humankind and other animals too) is Mother Nature effectively "cleaning house", such as the wiping out of an entire population in what we know now as Tunisia in 2300BC.

They also linked the cycle of epidemic and pandemic to other things... <cue contentious part >

For many decades the science boffins have studied the movements of the tectonic plates, volcanic activity and the temperature of the earth's core in relation to epidemic/pandemic/extinction cycles and changes in the climate. The earth core has been getting significantly hotter, which as with the epidemic/pandemic/extinction has through out history come in cycles....extreme temperature spikes in both directions.

Volcanic activity has increased significantly since the 1980 eruption of Mt St Helens. Otherwise dormant or semi dormant volcanoes have been showing more activity....two in particular are causing considerable concern. Campi Flegri near Naples and Yellowstone. One or both if they erupted would potentially bring about an extinction of many species, including humankind.

So what these boffins were saying is that the political stances shown during this current pandemic have been no worse than previous pandemics...Spanish Influenza, Cholera, Black Death, Typhoid etc. Alot of people look towards their country's leadership for guidance in times of distress but since pandemics and epidemics happen once in 100 to 150 years, there are no "perfect scenario" and not set plan in place cos there simply cannot be a plan.

It is impossible to plan ahead.

Why?

Due to the leangth of time in years, often over a century for epidemic/pandemic, each event is handled by an entirely new set of generations. There are scant if any survivors from the Spanish Influenza pandemic that killed over 50 million in 1918, so it is impossible to ask survivors "How was it handled, was there a plan?". The gap tween pandemics is so huge we only have what is found in the history and religious books to learn the how, the what and the eventual ending.

The bottom line insofar as the boffins from all over the world who have together studied this rock in space and its behaviour and the almost regular epidemic/pandemic/extinction cycles alongside the earth core temperature changes, the volcanic and tectonic plate activity is that no matter who is in charge of a country, no matter how well your forward planning might be...ultimately we have no control over what is naturally happening now or in the future. Humankind and all other living things on this rock are merely "passengers" on an ever changing, ever evolving hunk of rock. Campi Flegri and Yellowstone will go bang, another pandemic will happen...eventually. And as hard as you might try to plan ahead and have every scenario considered and planned for...we are mere passengers and have zero control or imput in what will come next.

History IS repeating itself.....with the current pandemic the cycle starts again, next one in 100 to 150 years long after everyone affected by this one has turned to dust. As for the rock we are sat on, its stewing away nicely from the core and not from the humankind part cos we are minicule compared to the core and the core has been heating up consistently. We know this is true thanks to the earth telling us through volcanic eruptions and earthquakes that are becoming ever stronger and ever more violent.

You can scream and protest as much as you want at the leadership of your country, makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
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We have new “pandemics” attempting to gain a foothold every year. I’ve family who were involved in treating the UKs first confirmed C19 patient. They worked on the Ox-AZ virus, they fly all over the world in their employment for this stuff.

You seem to be unaware of the late 60s Asian Flu pandemic that was capable of as much damage as the 20s Kansas variant that youre mistakenly labelling as Spanish. Asian flu was controlled by medical advances not around in the 20s.

Everyone on here is aware possible pandemics occur every couple of years (sars, norovirus, bird flu, pig flu etc etc etc ) but are thwarted by medicine. Occasionally every one or two generations a disease will get one over on the scientific world of the time. That’s what’s happened with C19.

Would a U.K. without its pandemic resource dept disbanded by the current Govt under Cameron have handled things better? We will never know. Though we can take an educated guess.
You though seem to be under the delusion that you alone are capable of an educated anything.
Post about fish please.
 
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New member here too, but please bear something in mind. Just because a new member doesn't agree with the thoughts and opinions of the majority, it shouldn't make them a target for ridicule or attack. If I (for example) ask for help on a fish illness and post what I think it may be in my comment, I may be wrong. But it doesn't mean I should be attacked and told to "educate myself". Why can't we discuss instead of attack? People wouldn't speak to me in person that way, so why do it here?

My opinion is we should stop living in fear and get back to normality as quickly as possible. Is it wrong? Who knows, but are your opinions correct? Again, who knows. Majority doesn't mean correct last time I checked.
The BBC are a vile bunch, same for Sky news. I turned the news channels off and my life improved tenfold.

You get one chance, why live in fear of what might happen? Go out, enjoy the fresh air, and take off the face nappy. If you really think a pretty piece of cloth can save you from a virus then fair enough. Your face covering can be anything, a scarf, a piece of cloth, a tea towel, anything. Many people I've seen are wearing sparkly masks, printed masks, masks with lips and smiley faces on, all to combat this "deadly virus."
My neighbour is a nurse and I aked her when she wears her mask. Her reply...."Like 99% of my colleagues, only at work." Take from that what you will.
 
wasmewasntit said:
Probably an unpopular opinion here but here goes...

The last pandemic was just over 100 years ago, long before all of us (inc dinosaur politicians) were even thought of. So this pandemic is something very new and I personally feel that although politicians have inevitably made errors along the way, I won't pour scorn onto them or the decisions that they made...and still make.

Nobody...not even the scientific boffins...knew anything about the origin, transmission or longevity of the virus and they still don't. People accused them and the politicians of "making it up as they went along", well yes they did, they had no choice. None had been through this sort of outbreak before, no real records or methods had been kept during the Spanish Influenza pandemic and anyway technology and medical science has changed massively since then.

I feel that the constant critical bashing of the scientists and politicians was seriously counterproductive. They truly did not know what exactly they were expected to do or how to handle this invisible menace and its origin country proved to be extremely unhelpful in discovering what it was capable of.

It is always very easy for those of us at home to be critical but had we been in any one of those scientists or politicians shoes, would we honestly have done any better?

I think not.

This virus is something that we all need to get used to, just as we have other diseases within our lifetimes. It is indiscriminate, insideous and devastating to those who sucumb to it. I lost no less than 15 neighbours in its early days and as someone with health problems I had to shield for several months. I have no family who could run errands for me, so it was difficult both physically and mentally.

So I tend to be a little more tolerant of the errors made, and yes there is no doubt errors were made. But when you consider that this virus pandemic was something totally new and unexpected and spread so fast and took so many lives. I feel, as do the families of my neighbours who lost their lives, that we can forgive the errors made and that by pulling together as communities we can beat this or at the very least learn to live with it in our midst. There is no room for the blame game, just room to reflect, to learn and to live with it.
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I agree with you to a point, but:
When you have politicians trying to score votes, talk sh!t and then having their hands tied behind their back when they need to act, because they tied them while bashing opposing political party. Or vice versa going overboard with restrictions for the same reasons.
It's hard to not blame them and give them benefit of the doubt.

For example, in Australia:

We have governing party that has rapid response heavy lockdown as national strategy, closed border policy, 0 cases policy etc.
Yet when few cases appeared in states governed by opposition party:
They went on full political bashing because those states introduced snap lockdowns, closed borders and so on. They kept on saying on TV that lockdowns are harsh and they are only doing it because they have incompetent government. It can all be done with contract tracing, without locking down people and destroying businesses.
When cases started popping there: they had their hands tied.
They tried introducing lockdowns and trying to pass them as some restrictions, etc. But naturally people already decided lockdowns are stupid and only stupid states do it, etc.
Now they have ragging Covid cases, heavy lockdowns, not allowed to leave house after 9pm (I think), police and military enforcing it and people who don't want to obey and protest. Some because they would be protesting anyway, but a lot feel they don't need to because even as the heavy lockdown goes on: the same political party is trying political bashing by attacking opposition and saying that we have to learn to live with Covid. And then wonder why people ignore restrictions.
Same goes for Opposition party. We didn't have any cases in the state in a while, borders closes and still have pretty heavy and unnecessary restrictions. Only because our state government was doing the same political bashing and tied their hands behind their back.
So neither party can act rationally and in best interest of people because they dug in their political trenches and can't appear to give ground.

And so we have border towns with businesses being destroyed, lives ruined even tho they don't have any cases. But half of towns are in their state lockdown, other half have border closed to them. One state government won't make border exemption for them and other one won't allow to have state border checks moved few km so the town isn't split in half and people can get to work, etc.

How can you not blame them lol
 
The face mask helps to reduce the virus being breathed into the surrounding air and infecting other people. If everyone wore a face mask when out in public, there would be way fewer people with the virus.
 
Colin_T said:
The face mask helps to reduce the virus being breathed into the surrounding air and infecting other people. If everyone wore a face mask when out in public, there would be way fewer people with the virus.
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This is a difficult one. While I agree to a point there has never been irrefutable proof of masks working. People are always adjusting and fiddling with their masks, and most cloths absorb your droplets, which means every time you move it around, your fingers are "infected". (If that makes sense?) I have never seen anyone sanitize their hands every time they touch their mask.
When you are in a restaurant, you may remove your mask at the table. Is Covid only spread at higher altitudes? :S
As I'm 6ft 8 does it mean I'm at higher risk? 🤣 OK so I'm kidding around, but it's ok to sit and breathe the same air as others in a venue when seated, but not when standing? Utter madness.
I've seen many parents walking around supermarkets with their babies in the trolley seat. Mum and dad have masks, baby....no mask. So the most important thing in your life (your kids) can breathe people's droplets, but not you??? I just don't get it. There is zero evidence that kids are less likely to get the virus or are less transmissible. There are "suggestions" and "possibilities" but no irrefutable proof.
Again, please don't take this in the wrong context. A debate should be friendly and enjoyable but the written word can be taken in so many different ways.
 
Spiskits said:
This is a difficult one. While I agree to a point there has never been irrefutable proof of masks working. People are always adjusting and fiddling with their masks, and most cloths absorb your droplets, which means every time you move it around, your fingers are "infected". (If that makes sense?) I have never seen anyone sanitize their hands every time they touch their mask.
When you are in a restaurant, you may remove your mask at the table. Is Covid only spread at higher altitudes? :S
As I'm 6ft 8 does it mean I'm at higher risk? 🤣 OK so I'm kidding around, but it's ok to sit and breathe the same air as others in a venue when seated, but not when standing? Utter madness.
I've seen many parents walking around supermarkets with their babies in the trolley seat. Mum and dad have masks, baby....no mask. So the most important thing in your life (your kids) can breathe people's droplets, but not you??? I just don't get it. There is zero evidence that kids are less likely to get the virus or are less transmissible. There are "suggestions" and "possibilities" but no irrefutable proof.
Again, please don't take this in the wrong context. A debate should be friendly and enjoyable but the written word can be taken in so many different ways.
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I think the wearing of masks has been given quite a high ‘reduction of infection’ risk, and the risk of getting the infection and how ill you will be if you get it has numerous “ifs”. I wear a mask all the time when I’m inside a building, I think people probably breathe less heavily when seated so sitting in a restaurant is possibly safer? Small children, our most precious possessions, are very unlikely to become seriously ill (if the news is correct) hence the reduced need for children to wear them. Even when going back to school in a few weeks (I believe) secondary school pupils will not need to wear a mask.

if you look at some of the latest reports on the number of people who were probably infectious at the Euros, it’s no wonder the number of infections remains so high in the UK.
 
The reason you can take a mask off at a restaurant table is so that you can eat :)

The reason infants don't have to wear masks is because few would tolerate it - parents and grandparents will remember that fun sun-hat on/off game. Little babies could suffer asphyxiation.
The virtue of a mask is that it reduces the risk of the wearer passing on the virus, not that it stops the wearer catching it.

There are studies about the efficacy of masks and they show that all masks/ face coverings are not created equal. The fabric, layers and fit are crucial variables.

As with all risk reduction, it is about doing what we can when we can to make things as safe as possible.
 
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. If everyone simply “stopped living in fear, so we could get back to normal quicker”, the virus would spread at a faster rate, because “normal” (no masks, no quarantine, no social distancing) only spreads the virus. While yes, the virus doesn’t have a bad effect on everyone, there is still a high volume of people who don’t do well with it and need to be hospitalized. If everyone just decided to quit taking precautions with the virus, everyone would get it within a very short period of time. The hospitals would be so overrun with COVID patients that other patients and other Covid patients would be dying in the waiting rooms. Here in Central VA, the literal only reason this is still a thing is because people don’t get vaccinated (which is fine, that’s their choice) but then also don’t wear masks, they go out while they’re sick, they don’t social distance. It’s because the people who don’t care are out their enjoying their life that the rest of us who do care are still having to take these precautions.
 
OliveFish05 said:
If everyone just decided to quit taking precautions with the virus, everyone would get it within a very short period of time. The hospitals would be so overrun with COVID patients that other patients and other Covid patients would be dying in the waiting rooms.
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That happened in India and is happening in Indonesia. The hospital and medical system has collapsed under the number of people coming in looking for help and people are dying on the street and at home because there is nowhere for the medical staff to treat them. :(
 
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