Algae Reduction

[ratfink]

Hi All, My lad has a 20 litre starter tank and it has an algae problem I think as there are "clumps" of white stuff on the bottom of hte tank.
We are now trying to rescue the tank / fish. We have moved the tank downstairs so we can look after it better, and I have started with adding an air stone, a 15% water change (will do 20% weekly cycle) and a anti-bacterial treatment for fin rot. Any further information about algae reduction would be greatly appreciated, we also check the water nitrates etc with a liquid testing kit.

Current Fish
2 neon tetras
2 guppys


Cheers

Dave

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hmmmm not sure if 'clumps of white stuff' are algae or not....... can you take some photos to help us ID it. No point us telling you how to reduce algae if that's not the real problem.

you say you've added an anti-bac med for finrot.... so you're obviously having some problems with the tank, you also said it's a new tank..... all this leads me to think the tank is probably cycling, have a read of the link in my sig 'whats cycling' which should explain it all and tell you what to do.

back to the main question though, here's my spiel on algae....

Algae like any other plant needs 3 things to live, CO2, food and light. You'll have lights in the tank and the tank may also receive direct sunlight so this gives one factor, the fish's poop effectivley becomes compost and gives food to the plants and there is always some CO2 in the water. If you have any body of water where you have all of these things then you will get some algae growth. However these are also the same things which make any live plants in your tank grow. Every plant and type of algae has different requirements for the amount of CO2 food and light they need. You can quantify this for the purposes of explanation as follows (the quantification isn't real, just representative to help explain). If your water naturally has 10 parts of co2, food and light, and the plants that you have need to use 10 parts of co2, 7 parts of food and 6 of light, once they've used this up they then can't make use of the left over food and light because there is no CO2 to go with it, this is where the algae comes in, it's much less demanding than the plants and as such can use up the remaining food and light with only trace amounts of CO2 and as such you'll get algae growth.

Essentially when people go for live plants in their tanks they aim for one of two methods, either 'high tech' which is where they add CO2, food and lights in such large quantities that the plants have everything they could possibly need and more, the plants then outcompete the algae and as such you just get good fast plant growth and very little algae. the second option 'low tech' is where you aim for the right balance of co2, food and light but only in relativley small quantities, the plants use it all up, grow relativley slowly but because you've not got 'left overs' the algae can't really take hold.

Now realistically, we all get some algae, you just need to scrub the glass to remove it or pull it out depending on the species of algae. However if you are getting a lot of algae growth then you need to adjust the balance of CO2, food and light getting to your tank so that you achieve a better balance and the plants get it rather than the algae. It's not an exact science as there's a lot of different factors, you generally just have to tinker until the algae dies back.

 

[ratfink]

Thanks for the info, the tank is over a year old now, but I am sad to say fell into neglect, We are in the process of rescuing it!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ah OK, well we will be able to help you out with the rescue if you like..... up to you but if you tell us what the problems are I'm sure we can help.

 

[ratfink]

Brilliant, may I just ask if I am ok to do 10% water changes daily for the next week or so to clear any debris out of the tank without it seriously upsetting the levels / balance etc? or should I be more subtle?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

you can do as many water changes as you like, do bigger changes if need be, i've even done 80% changes on tanks with fish in before when i've had problems..... what are your levels of pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, this will help us advise on what %age water changes you need.

 

[waterdrop]

Miss Wiggle,

Thanks so much for that write-up example about algae - I think it enhanced my understanding some! Interesting how one needs to hear things from different perspectives and different people sometimes to help learn it.

ratfink, when you do those water changes, try to get the most out of each one by cleaning up things on the tank bottom with the siphon hose. Getting on to a more frequent regimen and working your way across the gravel will go a long way to helping a neglected tank get back to functioning properly.

Also its important to always question whether you've got those nitrogen cycle basics down and are putting your water testing to good use. A 5 gallon like yours can have very rapid chemistry changes, making it all the more important to know how to interpret and control. Study as many pinned articles as you can and post up any questions here. Miss Wiggle and other experienced members here are really wonderful teachers, sharing their long interest and expertise in the hobby. Many, many of us beginners have learned how to better enjoy our hobby from them.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no problem WD, as you well know a lot of the sciency stuff goes over my head, Ian explained it to me once like this and it just clicked. I'd like to think one thing I can bring to this forum is translating some of the sciency side of things so that they're easy for people to understand...... I figure if I can get my head around it, just about anyone can.

 

[ratfink]

Thanks for the advice so far, I will get an upto date reading of the NT's, PH's and KG etc when I get home and post them up here, we use a liquid testing kit, but unsure which one...

When we do the water changes we poke around the gravel picking up the debris, but I have also read on here that the substraight contains a lot of the helpful bacteria and not to disturb it to much?? slightly confusing...

I'm not 100% certain about the cycle science stuff, am I being nieve in thinking that if the levels are reported as ok that the tank is fine? I have also added an air stone, which was absent before, so I am hoping this improves the water conditions with the added oxygen?

Cheers

 

[Miss Wiggle]

some bacteria lives in the gravel, in reality it's very little the vast majority lives in the filter.

the benefits from cleaning the substrate thoroughly far outweigh any loss in bacteria

If readings for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are ok it's a fairly good sign that the tanks doing alright, however there are a lot of other factors to consider which can upset the balance so while test results are crucial, they are not the only thing to watch out for.

If you can give us your readings for the above when you get home we'll do what we can to advise you from there.

 

[ratfink]

I think the words Oh Dear are imminent-

PH Level - About 7 (tank at 25c)
Amonia - 0
Nitrite - .25 to .5
Nitrate - 75 to 100 mg/l

As previously mentioned the tank has been in use for about a year, there is a pump which runs water across a sponge in the top, I occasionally lightly squeeze this in the water I cycle out of the tank to unclogg it.

Are pictures still required or does this information provide enough detail to provide a course of action.?

 

[waterdrop]

I think the words Oh Dear are imminent-

PH Level - About 7 (tank at 25c)
Amonia - 0
Nitrite - .25 to .5
Nitrate - 75 to 100 mg/l

As previously mentioned the tank has been in use for about a year, there is a pump which runs water across a sponge in the top, I occasionally lightly squeeze this in the water I cycle out of the tank to unclogg it.

Are pictures still required or does this information provide enough detail to provide a course of action.?

Well, you are doing some things right, which is very good! Squeezing that sponge in tank water is the correct thing and will keep your bacteria alive and well, just unclogging the debris and getting the mechanical filtration action of the sponge going well again.

Since the tank has been running a year and you haven't been killing the bacteria via cleanings, you probably have a good colony of both needed species established in the filter sponge. If you have not been doing maintenance, as you've said, then you may have an overload of debris in the gravel, elsewhere around the tank and in the filter possibly. This may be overloading your filter as its probably a small one for a 5G.

You're now taking the correct actions. You can perform 50% water changes as close as one hour from each other and it is recommended that you perform multiple of these until you get that nitrite reading down to 0.25 or below.

When you get into trouble like this (having nitrite show up, dispite as supposedly funtioning bio-filter) you'll want to try to take your ammonia and nitrite readings in the morning and evening and allow for a water change if either of these poisons is showing up in the tests. Your filter should bounce back rather quickly and begin keeping these two readings at zero, and your water changes will be lowering those nitrates in stages down to a better level of 40ppm or below. If its worse, and your nitrites stay bad, it just means it will take longer for your filter to re-cycle and that can be up to as many as 4 weeks or so worse case. You'll know its operating nicely again when ammonia and nitrite are zero without a water change for, say, three days in a row.

Good Luck and keep chatting with us!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[ratfink]

Hi, Thanks for the info, I am now doing 40 - 50% water changes, will keep you posted...

Thanks again.

PS. any recommendations where to get an API master test kit from online?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

can usually pick them up for about £15 from ebay.

everything WD said is correct, the filter maintenance your doing is correct just probably fallen down a bit in the other areas of maintenance. there's a pinned topic with a guide to weekly maintenance which will be beneficial for you to read (i may have it linked in my sig.... can't rememeber ). For now though, regular water changes with good gravel vacs to go with them.

Can you test your tap water for the above as well, good to have a baseline for what your working with, it helps work out where nitrates should be, some people have tap water nitrate of 40ppm, some lucky people like me have 0, so the level we're aiming for is different.