A Rant Thread About Assumptions/actions On Both Sides.

[kat and james]

i agree with what you are all saying.. the thing i find most annoying is in the emergency section when someone is desperate for some help, so they ask thier question, and like tokis said, don't bother to post thier water stats, or thier tank size

how can we help if we don't know all the info in the first place, its an emergency, but more time is wasted because someone has to ask for the stats and tank size, instead of already knowing them from the post, and then just moving straight onto actually helping the poster and thier fish!

oh well!!

kat

 

[Lynden]

Sounds like sour grapes from the jealous to me.

uh, yeah, right.
Well, in truth, their is no one on earth i am jealous of, its just a trait though, i dont think i am better than everyone. I cannot say that i have been overly cheap, its just sometimes i am forced to crowd my tanks or use makeshift equipment, that works well, mind you, instead of "advanced" equipment. I have been looked down upon this in the past, especially the crowding issue.

I have probably spent about 5000$ canadian on my 6 tanks, and will climb even higher with my new nano. One advantage i have is that my parents can usually fork out some money if i am short. Heh heh. I do have all the necessary good equipment, it is usually just the "enhancers", such as carbon dioxide injectors, that i lack.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Sounds like sour grapes from the jealous to me.

uh, yeah, right.
Well, in truth, their is no one on earth i am jealous of, its just a trait though, i dont think i am better than everyone. I cannot say that i have been overly cheap, its just sometimes i am forced to crowd my tanks or use makeshift equipment, that works well, mind you, instead of "advanced" equipment. I have been looked down upon this in the past, especially the crowding issue.

I have probably spent about 5000$ canadian on my 6 tanks, and will climb even higher with my new nano. One advantage i have is that my parents can usually fork out some money if i am short. Heh heh. I do have all the necessary good equipment, it is usually just the "enhancers", such as carbon dioxide injectors, that i lack.

My basic veiw on your situation ChestnutMoray55 is if you can't afford it don't buy it- simple money sense. And that starts with the fish.
If you cannot afford to keep that pair of gorgeous discus or don't have the space for that ghost knife fish then don't buy them in the first place- don't just crowd them into your current tanks knowing that they don't have the space and you are only putting your current fish under greater stress and pushing the filters capability to handle the tank bioload over the limits.
If you can afford to set up a nano reef tank setup which are some of the most(if not, the most) expensive fish tank setups you buy, then i suggest you do somthing responsable and caring for your current tropical fish instead and buy them some extra tank space.
You wouldn't keep a group of dogs in a car for their entire lives so why keep a hoard of fish in tanks that do not fullfill their needs?
And if you cannot afford brand new fish gear then why not get some second hand- theres a buy/sell section on this forum here if you do not know where to start, or you can even make your own gear as before suggested(DIY section if you need to be insired).
You are in no way forced to crowd your tanks and you shouldn't be proud of it, no one forced you into fish keeping and neither they force you to keep your current fish- you do have self discipline don't you?
You are much luckier than many people here, most people do not have a mum and dad to save them when they need some extra cash, i know plenty of people who have managed to buy and support beautiful well stocked and healthy tanks who do not have parents to pay for their needs and they do have their own jobs.

It sounds like to me you are fish hoarding and not fish keeping, you are not buying or keeping fish with their best interests at hand but instead your own, and your own desires to keep fish aern't full filling your fish's needs by any means- i think you need to rethink why you are doing what you are doing to your fish.

 

[Lynden]

Tokis, you be quiet. I dont buy FW fish anymore, and they grow very well in my tanks. That is what leads to my crowdy situations, not me buying too much. And whenever the others (the FW tanks i mean) need new supplies, the fishes in need come first. And i will buy equipment second hand, as long as it is in great condition. Oh, and i overfilter each of my tanks, so biolaod doesnt go over. The last time i tested my nitrogen, there was not even a trace of it.

If my parents ever help me, i always pay them back Tokis (with babysitting and the like), so you can shut up about me being, er, "luckier" than everyone else. I am actually waiting for us to move so i can upgrade the tanks, the marine will be a 150, the 77 will be a 125, the 37 will be a 55, the 10 will be a 37, the 33 will be a 55 i hope, and so on. The reason i keep those fish is because they are signifigantly happier and healthier in my tanks, and they often even breed. For instance, the rosy barbs in the 37 spawn, the loaches i have seen breeding, the parrots, back when i had 2, were getting ready to spawn as well. In the 77, the oscars spawn everyonce in a while, as well. If my tanks are that bad, why are they a constant screw-fest? Explain that, know-it-all-san.

My point is here Tokis, as much as you try to bully me around, the fact still remains that my fish are happy and healthy. You try to strike my weak points and say that i am torturing these animals. Well, the facts are against you, so its not going to work. I dont like bullies, so i hope you stop being one, so maybe we can be frends. And, what do you mean of self-discipline here, because chances are, i have alot of it. So for the good of us all, and to avoid the imminent closure of this thread, let go of your childish grudge against me.

Please, stop trying to hurt me. Everything you have said here is wrong. Why do you have to bully me around about my stocking if no one else does it? Like i said, stop being such a bully here.

-Lynden

 

[kris-b-]

"let go of your childish grudge against me"

Well why be childish and say this for everyone to see? If you have a problem with someone or have an issue with someone either PM them or ignore it, instead of responding to posts in the way that you have.

All this is doing is creating a bad feeling between people so either ignore Tokis or sort it out PRIVATELY in PM!

 

[Bloo]

Guys guys guys.......(or guys and girls )
I don't think this should turn into a directly insulting, pulling apart, finger pointing and word slinging of one another

 

[Fella]

Doesn't take much to spoil an otherwise acceptable thread.

 

[Lynden]

You guys are right, i shouldnt have spilled this drivel out, period. I was beginning to lose my patience )

I dont dislike Tokis, really i dont, I would have said this to anyone who said what she did. I just felt a little bullied, and although it probably wasnt meant like that, i was still a little offended. I do not take my emotions to other threads, if i get a little mad on one, it doesnt carry to the other.
For instance, i could be angered at a person in one topic, and then go to the next and compliment them. It depends on what they say, not who the person is, to me, anyways.

Sorry guys )
-Lynden

 

[Ethos]

you are not buying or keeping fish with their best interests at hand but instead your own

Well, this is true of all of ous on some level(Not that I'm playing devils advocate... ).
I bet most of us continue in the hobby, not because we want to "save the poor little fishy wishy from the biug ugly mean petstore," more because we ourselves enjoy the fish.
The fish in most cases would be better in the wild, on their own, and the less fish we buy, the more the wild cought fish get to live in the wild.

That statement is true on some level, but also needs to be thoughtfully considered.

Chesnut, I agree also with Tokis.
He/She has a somewhat valid point.

Maybe I should stop Talking? Am I confusing others'?

I just felt a little bullied, and although it probably wasnt meant like that, i was still a little offended.

Its hard as a younger member like you and me to be all-controlling in our fishkeeping situations.
I dont have a drivers licence, and I get to go to my LFS about once a week, and I don't get allowence, and I dont have a job.
Whatever I spend on fish is birthday money of money I've saved up for a very long time.
I have been offended by this forums 'pack'(Refering to some people I'm not on very good terms with, which is like....one person), well, really only one person.
I have asked questions, and instead of getting an answer getting a very mean and un-constructive post.
It happens to the best of us, and it really shouldn't happen.

 

[Synirr]

I see your point Chestnut, but I also see Tokis's. I think what Tokis is saying is that, while your fish are happy and healthy and I'm sure you do a great job with them, it would have probably been wiser to think ahead and not have overcrowded the tanks in the first place. I don't know your situation, so maybe it was unavoidable (inheriting fish and the like,) but assuming you actually bought all the fish you have, Tokis makes a very valid point

Here's where I may come off a little harsh, but maybe the reason you get so defensive about it is because somewhere within you you know that Tokis is, to some extent, right?

 

[Lynden]

I think that Tokis is right on some basis, however i did in fact receive a few bigger fish from friends and such. Like the 6 inch red devil riley dropped on me because it was beating on his tinfoils. My boys got him in line pretty quick. Heh heh.

I completed my FW collection long before I began to realize that most of them are better off in the wild, and long before when i began to really want to be a marine bioligist. However, in the LFS it was too late for that, so i might as well try and put them in a place where they would be happy. If i were given a second chance, i would probably turn it into a species tank and try to breed fish that were being captured alot, and maybe help the wild ones out, and try to study them.

Really, we all fall prey to this at one time or another when we're new, the want to put just one more fish into the tank. I dont anymore, ive basically outgrown it, as did everyone else. I bought all those fish when i hadnt yet

I have been offended by this forums 'pack'(Refering to some people I'm not on very good terms with, which is like....one person), well, really only one person.

I think i may know who that is

Here's where I may come off a little harsh

You? Harsh? Not now at least!

Okay? So were all good, and "cool" with eachother now?

-Lynden

 

[BigC]

Tokis has some valid points and others are open to criticism.

Other things that get me are post count.
Just because you have a high post count on this forum does not make you anymore knowledgeable on fish or a better fish keeper, it just means you post a lot and that’s it. The same goes if you have a low post count, being a newb to the forum does not make you a newb to fish keeping. So if you feel that post count means anything more than a number you are misguided in my opinion. But every now and then I see people generally ignoring the advice of people who have low post counts but good advice, or taking the advice of others (when its not actually that good) because they have high post counts and have been around on the forum for a while so they assume they know a lot about fish keeping

The one that always gets me is a relative newbie to the hobby usually very young with high post stats offering all manner of advice on a broad spectrum of topics.
Mods there must be a way giving a knowledgable member some sort of identification to cure this trend.

 

[modernhamlet]

The one that always gets me is a relative newbie to the hobby usually very young with high post stats offering all manner of advice on a broad spectrum of topics.

Advice usually based on a single personal experience or something they heard from a friend instead of extensive experience and research...

I've said it before, but it bears saying again: Don't confuse ignorance and luck with knowledge and skill.

Mods there must be a way giving a knowledgable member some sort of identification to cure this trend.

Short of a "Karma" or "Reputation" type statistic that others can vote on, you really can't. Most of the time, it just ends up becoming a popularity contest with people trying to improve or sink people's stats for reasons beyond the intent of the stat.

The only other option would be for the mods to be able to assign people who are regularly helpful, accurate and polite to a special category of "trusted, knowledgable sources of information" that newbies could count on. Problem with that would be constant campaigning for membership. You could stop that though with a rule that if you mention wanting to be one at all, you can't become one.

Now that I think about it, that's a good idea. I can name several folks right off the top of my head that are well liked here and more than deserving of the honor.

It's a thought...

 

[Fella]

Just get rid of post counts. Hide them so that they cannot be seen.

 

[Synirr]

Now that I think about it, that's a good idea. I can name several folks right off the top of my head that are well liked here and more than deserving of the honor.

It's a thought...

I agree, that sounds like a good idea (in theory.) Once you've been on the forum a while you become familiar with everyone and know whose advice you can rely on, but as a newbie something like that might be pretty helpful. The idea of a system where people can vote on it would be just great if it weren't so easily abused