A Rant Thread About Assumptions/actions On Both Sides.

What gets me here (I'm a newb) is in some of the threads where people are asking questions, someone will post a fairly succinct reply and three posts later in the thread someone will give exactly the same advice

WHY? Don't these people read?

Agreed.
Equally annoying though is when you open up a section and there are 2-3 or more threads all on the same subject that are very close together. If i want to start a thread, the first thing i do is make sure the same sort of thread i am about to do isn't already on the same page- i sort of just find it polite this way, as so not to rob the other thread of its originality or somthing.


I'd actually disagree with this point. I think sometimes it is important to have more than one person opinion on particular issues. If the opinions are the same, then it can often hit home exactly what should be done.
I disagree also. I think it is important for anyone with a problem to get a good answer AND reinforcement of that answer. I used to hate it when I was a total newbie and posted a problem and only got one reply back. It may have been the right answer but I didn't know that. If you are standing around the local LFS with a few friends and someone asks a question about a problem they are having and the one of your friends answers it correctly, will you just keep quiet because the correct answer has been given? No, you would almost assuredly reinforce that by saying "I agree"? Same thing here.
 
What gets me here (I'm a newb) is in some of the threads where people are asking questions, someone will post a fairly succinct reply and three posts later in the thread someone will give exactly the same advice

WHY? Don't these people read?

Agreed.
Equally annoying though is when you open up a section and there are 2-3 or more threads all on the same subject that are very close together. If i want to start a thread, the first thing i do is make sure the same sort of thread i am about to do isn't already on the same page- i sort of just find it polite this way, as so not to rob the other thread of its originality or somthing.


I'd actually disagree with this point. I think sometimes it is important to have more than one person opinion on particular issues. If the opinions are the same, then it can often hit home exactly what should be done.
I disagree also. I think it is important for anyone with a problem to get a good answer AND reinforcement of that answer. I used to hate it when I was a total newbie and posted a problem and only got one reply back. It may have been the right answer but I didn't know that. If you are standing around the local LFS with a few friends and someone asks a question about a problem they are having and the one of your friends answers it correctly, will you just keep quiet because the correct answer has been given? No, you would almost assuredly reinforce that by saying "I agree"? Same thing here.

I agree ;)
 
OK, I'll have a go at this too. :hey:

What bugs me at times is people who have obviously not done any research at all before asking a question. Maybe it's just that I have discovered the search button and tend to use it? ;) There really shouldn't be a need to guide someone to the pinned topics, should there? But alas, this seems to be the way of the web these days. Certainly it's not unique to this forum.

I have a feeling that this thread is going to end up in a group hug. :sick: ;)
 
i agree with griz

it is usually much faster to search old topics then to wait for someone to come over and answer.
 
"*snicker*"

I have an odd feeling that this topic was began on my behalf. Heh heh.

Well, i will put in my little rant as well: If something happens, how in God's green earth do you prove that thing wrong? I am faced with this sometimes, however i usually just accept that there is nothing i can do to prove something that actually happened wrong. Its like trying to prove the fact that water exists is wrong. You cant do it. So stop trying. Unless you indeed can. Like as in a theory.

Wow, its amazing how many people on TFF have nearly lost their patience with me. I am a persistent little bastard, eh? Heh heh.

Heres something my friend told me to prove how much of a bulls**tter he can be:

" Goldfish in a cerain part of argentina have developed a kind of third eye, on the middle of their forehead, in order to see approaching aviatory predators...."

This was a good lie, since it is nearly plausible with some evolution. There is the Anableps, right?
However, there is a single fatal flaw. Lets see who can pick this out. Heh heh. (if you get it, pm me.)

Another potentially anger-inciting post,
-Lynden

P.S., awesome thread you have here Tokis.
P.P.S., I agree it is a good idea to inforce the info. Especially if it is from an, uh, "untrustable" user like me. Heh.
 
I've found that over the years you have to know the rules, and know them well before you try to bend or break them. This applies to many more areas than aquatics. There is always the crash & burn factor when trying to go against tried & true principles, but any sort of science or technology wouldn't advance very far if people didn't take risks here & there. We would all have ugf's & burners under slate bottom tanks if there wasn't anyone around who dared to tinker a little. I'll bet that first electric heater toasted a few fish, as well as providing a shocking experience.

I've also found what works well for others doesn't always work well for everyone. Sometimes there are many solutions to the same problem. I'd rather be given too much info than not enough.

You can have all the emotiwhatevers in the world, it will not replace vocal inflections. I read posts with that in mind, and have realized in life that some of the most intelligent people I know are slightly abrasive. Learn to deal with it.

Tolak
 
" Goldfish in a cerain part of argentina have developed a kind of third eye, on the middle of their forehead, in order to see approaching aviatory predators...."

This was a good lie, since it is nearly plausible with some evolution. There is the Anableps, right?
However, there is a single fatal flaw. Lets see who can pick this out. Heh heh. (if you get it, pm me.)

I got it! But won't PM you becasue I'm such a nice person and want to give someone else a chance to feel clever :p

Back to the topic in hand. What annoys me most are the few... select.... individuals who seem to have everyone else on te ignore list. Theres at least 3 I can think of now, who ask something, get their answer, but 3 posts down say theyt've done/bought something that completely contradicts what everyone else has told them. Then when everyone shouts at them (usually with very good reason), they get all defensive and start acting like two year olds arguing over some toy. Eg... 'Its my fish and I can do what I like to it'..... Christ, just because some acne-incarcerated kid who got turned down to work at McDonalds for being overqualified (and not in the food sense...) said it was OK to have that baby arrowana in your 10g along with your peaceful male betta community he also sold you and three 'dragon eels' to keep the bottom clean doesn't mean he's gods gift to fishkeeping....
 
I have an odd feeling that this topic was began on my behalf. Heh heh.
Judging by the first page, I think it might actually be Yarra who was the straw that broke the camel's back :lol:

Well, i will put in my little rant as well: If something happens, how in God's green earth do you prove that thing wrong? I am faced with this sometimes, however i usually just accept that there is nothing i can do to prove something that actually happened wrong. Its like trying to prove the fact that water exists is wrong. You cant do it. So stop trying. Unless you indeed can. Like as in a theory.
.....What? *lol*
Seriously, I don't understand what you're talking about right there.

However, there is a single fatal flaw. Lets see who can pick this out. Heh heh. (if you get it, pm me.)
Oooo, do we get a prize?
 
Did everyone have a bad night yesterday or something?

To be fair the "advice" given in the emergency section can often be rather patronising, so I'm not suprised the odd person gets offened. Obviously you have to work the lowest common denominator in answering those threads but even so I think in some cases the tone of the advice could be better.

My own personal gripes is just seeing people giving bad advice, or in the case of a recent thread about an American Catfish the "I knew it was wrong but did it anyway" type of question.
 
Don't forget all the people who do listen. I have asked for advice on lots of things and I have listened! There is nowhere else to get this kind of important information (except for other forums, which I do not visit. I do look at planet catfish). As to answering queries I stick to things I have read or experienced, if I don't know I keep quiet. Some people are determined not to admit they are wrong, I pity their fish! :)
 
Don't forget all the people who do listen. I have asked for advice on lots of things and I have listened! There is nowhere else to get this kind of important information (except for other forums, which I do not visit. I do look at planet catfish). As to answering queries I stick to things I have read or experienced, if I don't know I keep quiet. Some people are determined not to admit they are wrong, I pity their fish! :)

Totally agree.I like to be completely sure of my answers before giving advice and if Im not i will always tell the poster that.Sometimes the tone of answers given by members can be a bit abrupt but at least they make the effort to reply.
I will instead think"Not another question about guppy fry"etc and ignore the post.Balanced with this attitude are the one or two who are all over the forums like a rash and seem to know or have an opinion on absolutely everything.
A throwaway word or remark can be easily read the wrong way eg if I worked for mcdonalds I would find the implied remark about how mcdonalds worker=stupidity very insulting although it was not meant to be(I hope)
 
I think my post in an interesting thread in the Beginner's forum yesterday is pretty appropriate for this one. Take a look:

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?s=&sho...ndpost&p=967518

As someone who has received more advice than I have been able to give out. I can fully understand it when it seems that the newbie is been patronised by other more experienced members of this forum.

I have quoted the previous post as MH is very eloquent in his reply to adam and has covered everything I could have covered and more.

Maybe there would be far less of these mis-understandings if people would read their replies to people out loud before posting and if it sounds patronising then it probaly needs re-wording.
 
If people put a bit more thought into their original posts there would be no need for 'patronising' to occur. Most of the time its the easiest way to get info needed and has been tried and proven to work many a time. Just because a few people get defensive about it doesn't mean we should now assume that everyone is a model fishkeeper with no problems whatsoever to advoid annoying them/hurting their feelings.
 
What gets me here (I'm a newb) is in some of the threads where people are asking questions, someone will post a fairly succinct reply and three posts later in the thread someone will give exactly the same advice

WHY? Don't these people read?

Agreed.
Equally annoying though is when you open up a section and there are 2-3 or more threads all on the same subject that are very close together. If i want to start a thread, the first thing i do is make sure the same sort of thread i am about to do isn't already on the same page- i sort of just find it polite this way, as so not to rob the other thread of its originality or somthing.


I'd actually disagree with this point. I think sometimes it is important to have more than one person opinion on particular issues. If the opinions are the same, then it can often hit home exactly what should be done.
I disagree also. I think it is important for anyone with a problem to get a good answer AND reinforcement of that answer. I used to hate it when I was a total newbie and posted a problem and only got one reply back. It may have been the right answer but I didn't know that. If you are standing around the local LFS with a few friends and someone asks a question about a problem they are having and the one of your friends answers it correctly, will you just keep quiet because the correct answer has been given? No, you would almost assuredly reinforce that by saying "I agree"? Same thing here.




I sort of agree with you but what I was trying to say is it is annoying when for example you go into the emergency section and there are 4 threads all on whitespot with the same issues- or like when you go on the livebearer section and there are 5 threads on "is my platy pregnant" or "help, guppy fry!" or something. I think its great people can share so much knowledge on fish here but some people don't appear to even look at other people’s threads or posts before they post their own issue. I know that if everybody here actually used the search engine or read the pinned articles no one would actually have anything to ask or discuss because it had already been done before, but at the same time some people really just don't seem to look at all and expect everyone else to cough up the info for them even if all you have to do is look at the thread below yours and get your answers.

Other sorts of threads that make me sigh are "I have a 20gal what should I put in it threads".
Now sometimes these threads are really good and interesting to participate in but sometimes you just feel like the person is just not bothering to research anything at all and just randomly calling up fish species; research is a major part of fish keeping and I do think it should be at least encouraged to a certain extent with people.
Sort of what I am trying to get at for example is this type of thread;

"I have a 20gal tank what should I put in it"
"What sort of fish are you into?"
"How about some guppy’s and albino Cory’s?"
"I don't like guppy’s and cory’s they are boring, would danios and tiger barbs be ok with a common plec?"
"Common plec will get too big for the tank, there’s not enough space for the barbs either and the danios won't mix with them"
"Oh. What about some male and female bettas?"
"You can't mix male and female bettas together as they will stress each other out and fight"
"How about some swordtails, khuli loaches and a bristlenose plec?
"I like bristlenose plecs but I want some big and interesting fish for the tank"
"You can’t really have big fish in that tank as it’s a small tank"
"How about some guoramis?"
Etc etc etc...

This sort of thread can go on forever, if I were to improve things those I’d do these pointers;
a. You have the 20gal tank and want to do a thread, the first thing you do in your post is describe what sort of fish you are into- you don't have to be an expert at listing fish family’s or scientific names, you can just describe what sort of looks/appearance you like in your fish say whether you want quiet peaceful community fish or something that is really active and zooms around the tank or something that looks unusual like an oddball. Writing down this basic info really helps people trying to help you out a lot, there are thousands of types of fish that will go into a 20gal so its quite hard to suggest anything without knowing what you are looking for.
b. When people start suggesting you fish and you look at pics of the suggested fish on the Internet and like them, then you should start researching their needs. People will hardly ever tell you all there is to know about a particular fish in this sort of thread, all they do is suggest it based on their knowledge of the fish, the rest is up to you to do the research unless you want to start another thread on that particular fish. There are a lot of pinned articles on keeping certain types of fish and hundreds of fish listed with pics and info on them in the fish index on this forum so looking up a fish's needs is not difficult at all :) .
c. If you are a newb to fish keeping make sure you know how to do a fishless cycle, what to look for in water stats when testing water quality and what the stats signify/mean, how to look after your filter and substrate, when to do water changes and how much and the importance of using dechlorinator and making sure the tank filter, heater and lighting are all powerful enough for the tank. Then you need to know how to look after your chosen fish.
d. Remember that some fish can live for a very long time if well looked after, goldfish and clown loaches can get to 40yrs old, common and sailfin plecs to 20-30yrs old, albino and bronze cory’s to 11yrs old etc...There’s nothing wrong with rehoming fish that you don't want anymore as long as you make sure they get good new homes that fill their needs, but fish are still pets and I do think you should at least try to keep a fish as long as you can. Fish keeping is what you make of it, it is not something that entertains automatically but it is something where you can get a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment out of it- I believe that if you honestly make the most out of your fish keeping experience and chose your fish well and enjoy your tank setup you won't get bored of your fish ever :nod: .
 

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