125l Beginner Community Tank Stocking Review/Suggestions

[Treestone]

As the article suggests there are thick-lipped gourami which are very similar to dwarf gourami, yet it may be possible to get reliable stock. I agree with @Wills it isn't ideal to combine both species in a community setting. It really comes down to what you want from the fish. Kribensis may be another option if you want a hardy, strong breeder.

 

[Derigriff]

I'm guessing the Kribensis would be an alternative to the Cockatoo cichlid/GBR 'slot' ? and I imagine that they wouldn't coexist well with Gourami either.. Would you or anyone else have any recommendations then for another interesting fish species that would coexist well with either the Cockatoo or the kribensis? i imagine they themselves wouldn't take kindly to sharing a tank, and it would be nice to have another pair of striking, interesting fish to go alongside them and the shoaling fish. Thanks again for all the info, i've learnt more in one thread than i have in weeks! it really helps that you can be specific with questions

Also. in response to Wills: That's a really great idea for the future, if this one goes well! From what i've heard once you get going it becomes surprisingly easy to add tank after tank, so i should have the opportunity

 

[Wills]

I'm guessing the Kribensis would be an alternative to the Cockatoo cichlid/GBR 'slot' ? and I imagine that they wouldn't coexist well with Gourami either.. Would you or anyone else have any recommendations then for another interesting fish species that would coexist well with either the Cockatoo or the kribensis? i imagine they themselves wouldn't take kindly to sharing a tank, and it would be nice to have another pair of striking, interesting fish to go alongside them and the shoaling fish. Thanks again for all the info, i've learnt more in one thread than i have in weeks! it really helps that you can be specific with questions

Also. in response to Wills: That's a really great idea for the future, if this one goes well! From what i've heard once you get going it becomes surprisingly easy to add tank after tank, so i should have the opportunity

In a 125ltr you would need to choose just one type of feature fish. The only other option would be to go for Nano fish like Badis and Sparking Gourami or go for a bigger tank...

 

[Derigriff]

Ah, thanks for letting me know! i didn't realise that was an issue. I thought it would be okay as the fish were relatively small and in pairs, but i apologise. would sparkling gourami have the same issues with cichlids, or are they different enough to avoid issue? they do look remarkably unlike any gourami i've seen.

 

[Wills]

Yes they are still a fish that will stake out a territory all be it a smaller one but they wouldnt be able to match up to other territorial species.

 

[Byron]

As others have noted, cichlids and gourami should not be housed in the same tank. Reason being, they are too much alike in terms of their inherent traits and behaviours. All species are territorial to some degree, and this applies to females as well as males though it is usually the males we hear about because they can be very aggressive in defending "their" space. And we must not lose sight of the fact that to any territory-defending fish we put in this sized tank, the entire tank is almost always going to be seen as their space.

For much the same reason, no more than one species of cichlid or one species of gourami should be housed in a tank. There are some gourami species that can be together, and these are the smaller and rarer species. The Dwarf, Honey, Blue/Gold, Pearl, etc do not fall into this camp. Cichlids are similar, the exceptions are very specific.

If you are really set on the blue ram, it is possible to have suitable tankmates but it takes a bit more effort. Getting a bonded pair (male/female having selected each other from the group) is the first hurdle. Temperature can be no lower than 80F/27C, and the rams will fare much better and be less likely of disease if kept warmer, around 82-85F/28-29C. Cardinal tetra, Rummynose Tetra, the Green/False Neon Tetra all do well with this warmth (but not the Neon Tetra). There are no substrate fish (a few loricariids I think can work) that will work though, so that means no cories.

 

[Derigriff]

Thanks again for the replies. I think i'll leave off on the Blue Ram until i have a bit more experience with fishkeeping, as it seems to require a more specialist setup, and from what i've read is more sensitive to error. If i replace the Blue Rams with Cockatoo Cichlids as in an earlier revision, or possibly Kribensis as suggested earlier, then does anyone have any suggestions as to what else to include instead of the gourami? I'd like another species in the tank, though i understand the limitations of too many 'feature fish' as mentioned to me previously, though i must admit i do not fully understand which fish fall into this category. Is it the more territorial ones only?

So as it stands it seems that a new rough draft is:

2 (3?) x Cockatoo Apisto/(Kribensis?)
8x Marbled Hatchetfish
8x Harlequin Rasboras
2x Bamboo Shrimp
1x Bristlenose Starlight Pleco

That brings it to 82% (89% with 3) using Aqadvisor, which seems reasonable. Though i would be interested in possibly replacing the Rasboras with a smaller group of a different species if that is possible, as having two large shoals may be excessive.

Also, would the level of hardscape and planting aid in territory disputes? this setup is planned to be quite heavily planted, with lots of rocks/driftwood to hide in and block sight. Would that make a difference any of the issues raised previously, or is the tank size simply too small even with that. Apologies for the inane questions, just making sure i understand it all correctly.

 

[Byron]

Also, would the level of hardscape and planting aid in territory disputes? this setup is planned to be quite heavily planted, with lots of rocks/driftwood to hide in and block sight. Would that make a difference any of the issues raised previously, or is the tank size simply too small even with that. Apologies for the inane questions, just making sure i understand it all correctly.

Not easy to answer simply. With some species, rearranging the aquascape can help dispel/resolve territorial issues, whereas with some other species this has no effect whatsoever. "Line of sight" is just one factor involved in territory; another is chemical secretions of fish by which they can communicate, called pheromones (read by others in that species) and allomones (read by fish in other species). These can signal aggressiveness as strongly as actual physical enforcement by the fish. This is one major reason we do significant regular water changes, to keep all these signals minimal.

I had a male Bolivian Ram in my Amazon riverscape tank which was 5 feet in length, 115g, and heavily planted with lots of chunks of wood. He was the only cichlid, and the other fish were some 60+ cories, 130 or so tetras and pencilfish, and a couple of whiptails. This lone Bolivian Ram owned that space, all of it, and every other fish in the tank knew it.

 

[Derigriff]

I had a male Bolivian Ram in my Amazon riverscape tank which was 5 feet in length, 115g, and heavily planted with lots of chunks of wood. He was the only cichlid, and the other fish were some 60+ cories, 130 or so tetras and pencilfish, and a couple of whiptails. This lone Bolivian Ram owned that space, all of it, and every other fish in the tank knew it.

...wow. That's one mighty fish! Thanks for the info on pheromones as well, i should have considered that.

 

[Byron]

...wow. That's one mighty fish! Thanks for the info on pheromones as well, i should have considered that.

The tank was 5-feet, not the fish...just to be clear. He grew to around 3 inches, but every other fish respected his presence and obeyed him. It was interesting to watch how this played out from time to time.

 

[Derigriff]

The tank was 5-feet, not the fish...just to be clear. He grew to around 3 inches, but every other fish respected his presence and obeyed him. It was interesting to watch how this played out from time to time.

Sorry if i wasn't clear. i meant his presence, rather than his actual size But that does sound fascinating to watch.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

A five foot bolivian ram would be quite something though

 

[Derigriff]

A five foot bolivian ram would be quite something though

As would the tank that could happily house it!

 

[Derigriff]

Right, so it seems that the previous list:

2 (3?) x Cockatoo Apisto (i've heard they like 1 male + multiple female groups, but I think i'd prefer a pair)
8x Marbled Hatchetfish
8x Harlequin Rasboras
2x Bamboo Shrimp
1x Bristlenose Starlight Pleco
82% stocking, 125l tank, soft water, 80x25x50 cm

Hasn't had any major issues, so it seems like the way to go for the most part
Just a couple of questions before i stop bothering everyone (temporarily): Firstly, just to clarify the rule of only one species of gourami/Cichlid per tank, would that also include for example multiple different Apistogramma, or other similar species? I assume it would, but thought i'd double-check.
Secondly, before I finalise the stocking list (i say finalise lightly, as availability can mean that the best laid plans..), I though i'd do one last double-check to see if there any any small groups/individual species of interesting fish/etc I could slip into the mix? I'm not looking to double dip on feature fish, as that has been mentioned to be unwise, just wondering if there was a way to bump the species variety up just one notch before all hell breaks loose in the tank! Not looking for huge of dramatic fish, just maybe one or 2 of something just to mix it up. Not necessarily even fish, though i know snails are a no-go due to the water chemistry, and smaller shrimp will most likely fall prey to the Apisto..

I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to both those questions, but it never hurts to double-check. The stocking of the tank is an important choice, and I just want to be sure I get it right Thanks again for all the wonderful responses in this thread, you've all been a delight, and I look forward to becoming more active on here in the future (if all goes well).

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Just a couple of questions before i stop bothering everyone (temporarily):

I'm afraid I can't be of any help with stocking suggestions since the only fish on your list I've kept are harlequins, and I have hard water so my research tends to go to hard water fish. But I just want to say that you're not bothering anyone with your questions and wanting help to make sure your stocking is right! It's lovely and refreshing to see someone put so much thought and effort into working out how to maximise their enjoyment of the tank, while also looking for species that will work together and with your water

I'm sure you've seen both here and elsewhere, a lot of beginners that have been given bad advice and end up with a disaster tank, losing fish and uncycled, or people who did no research and bought whatever they liked, and their stocking is a nightmare, and they end up having to buy massive tanks or rehome fish. Not always their fault either, there's a lot of misinformation out there, and some stores give awful advice just to flog some fish, without caring that that fish will outgrow that tank or terrorise the other fish in the tank.

We've also all been through the same research for our own tanks and stocking It can be hard work, confusing, and frustrating finding species you love, then realising the water is wrong or they'll eat something else you want to keep, wading through conflicting advice and misinformation, etc etc. So we know how you feel! And it's always great to see another hobbyist who cares a lot and is taking the time to really research and think it through, rather than just buying what you like and throwing it in there. I'm sure you'll work out a tank that you love, stick with it and hang around the forum, ask as many questions as you like! it's not a bother to help people, it's what the forum is for.