would you guys keep a betta in this...

[SRC]

Really..conditioned are they?

So how are they conditioned to recognize me with my hair pulled up, worn down, styled curly, styled straight, or when I have glasses on..ect. my "look" changes daily..as do my clothes...so how do you explain them continueing to recognize me everytime I walk up to the tank...as opposed to someone else walking up instead.

I have even given someone else the food containers, trying to fool them, and they still react the same way to strangers.

 

[eudielynn]

What has the size of the brain got to do with intellegence? The elephant has the largest brain of any land mammal including man. This does not make him smarter than man, he just has a larger brain mass.

Just because a betta has a teeny little brain, how do you know how that brain functions? Synirr just posted a thread about bettas being used in experiments teaching them tricks. There is a thought process there.

Perhaps other fish aren't as intellegent as bettas and therefore people who don't interact with them like we do with our bettas aren't aware of how smart they are.

 

[John_Nicholson]

Yes.

-john

 

[OrkyBetta]

Well, if bettas' brains were any bigger, their little heads would explode.

 

[FalconStorm]

Just because I like a nice, *friendly* debate, I also think that bettas have more intelligence and awareness than people give them credit for. For one, they play. I have seen my bettas play with their food and I have watched the betta in my community tank 'herd' the neons around like a sheep dog. To assume a betta does not care about the size of its tank is to assume that it is completely unaware of its surroundings. Just because an animal does not have emotion the same as a human does not mean they cannot suffer.

Any animal that is capable of playing is capable of suffering from too little space. Just as a wolf will pace in a cage too small and will be miserable, so too will a betta be miserable in a tank too small. Survival is not all there is to life, even for an animal with a small brain.

 

[John_Nicholson]

I am not saying that bettas should be abused. I treat all of my fish well. I am saying that a lot of what people confuse as intelligence is really just instincts.

-john

P.S. What part of Texas are you from? The Texas Betta Club is growing and doing well. Also the American Cichlid Assn. is having the BIG show this year in Ft. Worth. It will be a blast.

 

[Dweenus]

I have 2 smart Vt's. What's so bad about Vt's?

 

[OrkyBetta]

You can't show VT's. That might be why some people don't like them. I keep them for pets, so I see nothing wrong with them.

 

[SRC]

Yes.

-john

That seemed like a conditioned response..instead of an intelligent response with "substance" to me..anyone else think so?

 

[John_Nicholson]

Kind of trying to let it die. So far you have not offered any proof to your stance. Just your opinions. If you want to discuss this in email or on a forum that enjoys disagreements that is fine, but I will not have a running disagreement with you here. If I understand the rules of this forum properly they do not want this kind of thread (i.e. personal attacks).

-john

 

[BettaMomma]

Mr. Nicholson - I have to disagree with you 100%.
I have been REALLY trying to stay out of this conversation because I don't want to have an argument with someone who is equally, if not MORE, sarcastic (when I NEED to be, and only then) as myself. But when I read the statement where you'd match wits with anyone anyday, I'll take you up on that offer. I, too, am not whatsoEVER afraid to match wits with someone - especially a VERY closed-minded person.

SO... I have 12 tanks right now - all filled with bettas.
I, too, use colloidal silver in my tanks. When the fish see the bottle come out, the go and hide in a cave, behind a plant, etc. because they know I'm going to dump something scary into their tanks. I have tried keeping the bottle away from them and using a medicine dropper to add the colloida, but they know. They KNOW it's not feeding time so something must be suspicious.

When they see me coming at them with a bowl (AND.. my bowls are ALL different colors, red, green, blue, butter yellow, etc.) they know they will be fed either peas or bloodworms.

SEVERAL of my fish also know when I'm done feeding them - I ALWAYS give them 4 pellets in the morning, so when I'm done dropping the 4th one in, and they're done eating it, they swim away to go find something else to do.

ALL of my fish know me - and I too look very different from one day to another. I have long hair - sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down, one day it's dark brown, the next day it's blonde (okay, I dont' do this very often but it recently happened to me lol) ANYWAY.. my point is - they know me and come running (or swimming) to the front of the tank when they see me. Anyone else comes by and they hide.

I have one fish that's VERY playful - he's my tail-less betta, Lucky. He is VERY smart. I do the "run your finger along the front of the tank for fun" game with him, but he eventually gets bored. I have had to change it to hide and seek with him - where i reach around the back, sides, top of the tank where I "peek" a few fingers out at him. he is smart enough to look, up, left, right and behind him because he knows that's where I'll be.

I'd have to say that these fish have more personality, intelligence and integrity in their little fin than some people have in their entire body.

 

[red-devil0602]

somebody call the paramedics!

 

[John_Nicholson]

"SO... I have 12 tanks right now - all filled with bettas."

Ok this will be my last post to this thread. After this we can discuss it in email at Nicholsons_Discus@yahoo.com or on ***.**********.com (no holds barred)...

I have 11 tanks of discus. I spawn and raise them. currently my supply is a little low. I only have about 400 discus fry. We have about 20 other tanks with assorted fish including 3 current spawns of bettas with about 30 males jarred up and a 75 gallon tanks full of females. I am the vice president of FOTAS (Federation of Texas Aquatic Societies), a board member of the TCA (Texas Cichlid Assn), a founding member and a board member serving my second term of NADA (North American Discus Assn.), a member of the Dallas Killifish Club, a member of TAKO (Texas Area Killifish Org), A member of the ACA (American Cichlid Assn., and a member of the Dallas Betta Club. I may have missed a few but that is most of them. I have kept and raised fish for the last 30+ years (and no I am not that old. 39 at last count) I have a degree from Texas A&M University in Agricultural Economics and have spend my entire life with animals. Either as a job or as a passion. I am only here because Kelly (luvmybetta) a moderator here asked me at the last show and meeting to stop by here. If you want to sit back and think that your bettas are highly intelligent then...well I guess everything is relative......

-john

 

[OohFeeshy]

I really can't be bothered to argue, not in the least because you can't seem to give an educated response. Anyway, my question is still pending. Where does it say its because its a VT?

 

[BettaMomma]

This was exactly the type of response I was expecting from you, actually.

I have NO degrees whatsoever in ANYTHING related to fish, in fact I am a backend java web applications developer. Nor do I belong to ANY clubs that are fish related. I'm very in tune with my fish and I know them very well.

And lastly... I highly doubt that Kelly asked you to swing by and start throwing out insults in how incredibly stupid our fish are.

EDIT - it's Wuvmybetta, not Luvmybetta