Why Hobbiest find Discus fish Demanding!

[Colin_T]

The parents clean any surface before laying eggs. They swim up and down the area picking at it to remove unwanted things on it.

 

[Mazain]

The parents clean any surface before laying eggs. They swim up and down the area picking at it to remove unwanted things on it.

That's great they got a variety of choices (pvc pipe, filter pipes and cement walls) if the bog wood and algae dosent work.

 

[plebian]

Now not every plant has done well a couple of species of echinodorus did die (I think 2) whether it was due to heat or just bad plants i could care less - i have htat issue in every aquarium from 74 to 84.

Of course there are plants that won't do well @ 84 and i don't claim every plant does well. Also the frogbit and red root floaters at the top have double to triple density (which is max out as i remove it as it get denser); of course the discus don't object to the clouds.

And there's the rub. Juvenile discus do best at @86, which is simply a fact. Find me a breeder who says otherwise. And most plants simply can't handle the temps. Those that do, live but do not thrive. I'm not saying any more on the topic because it's clear you have an agenda. You ignore the specifics of my comments and when you do post specifics they are in conflict with previously stated conditions. The ONLY point I've been trying to make is:

1. Discus not only do not require plants for a healthy environment, they've never had plants in their natural habitat (aside from seasonal, flooded, terrestrial plants). That's just a fact, not an opinion.

2. Of course you can keep plants and juvenile discus together - it just requires more effort and introduces additional problems. The OP is a beginning discus keeper. I'm simply trying to save him some grief.

PLEASE STOP TURNING MY WORDS INTO SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT JUST SO YOU CAN PROMOTE YOUR PLANT AGENDA

 

[Mazain]

Okay I think the issue here is with wild caught Discus incontrast to inbred breeding and hybrid breeding.
Plebians point on the temp is more suited in amazon regions when shallow Discus move to terrestrial plants and tree roots for breeding after floods. Temperatures should be in the 82f to 86f range.
Inbred and hybrid or cross breed Discus are mostly from South East Asia, Germany or USA. Experts say tap water is fine in Germany and South Asia has more soft water close to neutral so don't worry too much and in USA it's contrast. So the point anewbie is saying is its not where Discus originate from but from where they come from. Adjusting to that is key. So South East Asian Discus can grow in soft, neutral ph and plants can work with a lesser temperature.

 

[GaryE]

You can keep Discus anywhere from 26 to 30 and still be in the natural range. @plebian is correct in saying you won't find breeders who don't keep them at the top of their tolerance as that's a breeding temperature. For maintenance, they can be lower.

LInebred Discus don't differ from wild Discus in temperature needs. They may be kept differently, but they haven't been in captivity long enough to change their fundamentals. They are just more tolerant of disease, as the ones that weren't have long since died in captive conditions. So a slightly lower temperature (27-29) isn't going to take them out.

My wild caughts did well at 27, but I had no interest in breeding them.

I can't think of any fish where so many skilled and knowledgeable aquarists have butted heads over different ways of keeping them. Over the past 40 years of vague interest in Discus, I have seen so many Discus wars. All I can say with certainty is my friends who collected them in the wild say they're terrible to eat as there are too many bones.

 

[Mazain]

2. Of course you can keep plants and juvenile discus together - it just requires more effort and introduces additional problems. The OP is a beginning discus keeper. I'm simply trying to save him some grief.

100% true so many problems with Discus juveniles at the start as I have mentioned previously on the thread its a hard challenge however, you just need patience and knowledge about Discus for beginners and experience hobbyist trying them out for the 1st time.
1. When buying juvenile Discus from the breeder always get all one size and not less than a school of 6. The breeder might fox you by saying the small size are females and sell you 2 small size ressesive gene Discus with 4 large size Discus.
2. Do not buy one or a pair then keep adding them or mixing them up with different breeders to complete your schools.
3. Homogeneous and Hexageneous are selected by expert Discus breeders for F1 and F2 grade products. As a hobbiest my intention is not to breed them. So in the wild they pair out among them self's and school or shoal around avoiding predators and larger Discus Adults with the protection of their parents. This is one challenge in aquariums keeping juvis without parents.
4. They do well in a community Tetra, Rainbow, Roselinebarb tank and until they get used to the plants, hardscape and fish they are not gona eat any food you feed them. This would take from 5 days to a week or more to ressesive Discus and during those days they survive from the mucus on their bodies or what they surcrete while they are in a group.
5. Keeping the water clean during this time is very important so they don't catch any ich which is the most common culprit. Do not medicate Discus during this time cos they are gona come around and start feeding in the right water setup keeping them away from diseases.
6. This is the best time to train them on a varied diet. I feed them Bio-gold and a heart mix I made and I just know they love it cos I always see belly fulls. All my juvis started eating after 12 days accept one ressesive one.
7. Unlike barebottom tanks pellets are hard for them to feed on when sunk to the bottom in planted tank substrates. So I recommend feeding the beef heart mix first and after the pellets the next day. They come to the surface to feed on pellets and always turn off the water flow when feeding.
8. In community tanks you don't worry about leftover food as every things not spared and Amonia, Nirates spikes are minimal. However, 20% or 50% WC is recommend weekly or every 3 days depends on your planted tank setup.
9. Discus love water current however, they want calm water areas in the tank for resting or sleeping when lights go out at late evening. So make sure their are pockets of water where the flow is calm in the aquarium.
The 1st couple of days I was not this confident and was hoping they make it. Once they started feeding everything falls back into place. So this is what I have observed so far and ask for help when issues come up in the future.

 

[Mazain]

An update on the Discus juvis feeding frenzy.

 

[Colin_T]

It's been 3 weeks since you first asked for help with them because they were hiding all the time. Now look at them zipping around the tank eating like little pigs.

If you hold your mobile phone horizontally (landscape mode) when filming the fish, the footage will show more of the aquarium and it will look better.

 

[Mazain]

It's been 3 weeks since you first asked for help with them because they were hiding all the time. Now look at them zipping around the tank eating like little pigs.

If you hold your mobile phone horizontally (landscape mode) when filming the fish, the footage will show more of the aquarium and it will look better.

Thanks for everyones help on the thread. I praise this forum over other forums as the members have the patience to see threads through without discrimination.
Unfortunately the video I had to upload it on YouTube to get it on TFF. That's how much it shows on YouTube shorts.

 

[Mazain]

What is a 120% water change?

 

[Colin_T]

What is a 120% water change?

No idea, unless it was a typo and meant to be a 20% water change.

The most water you can change is 100% and that is all the water in the tank at the same time. And that isn't recommended because the fish end up out of water when you do it. Normally you don't change more than 75-80% at any time so the fish can remain in the water and there isn't too much of a change from the new water. Most people change around 50-75% each week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the aquarium.

 

[Mazain]

No idea, unless it was a typo and meant to be a 20% water change.

The most water you can change is 100% and that is all the water in the tank at the same time. And that isn't recommended because the fish end up out of water when you do it. Normally you don't change more than 75-80% at any time so the fish can remain in the water and there isn't too much of a change from the new water. Most people change around 50-75% each week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the aquarium.

Thanks Colin. Gabe the guy in jack wattley discus on YouTube says, he normally does a 120 water change. Wanted to clarify.

 

[Colin_T]

It's physically impossible to do more than 100% water change so he messed up something.

Wattley Discus needs to learn a bit more about their fish too because they still feed them beef heart and liver and refuse to give them plant matter. They have to treat their fry every month for the first few months to stop them dying because of the artificial rearing process. They have been informed of this previously but don't want to listen.

Just be careful about stuff on the internet, some of it's good and some is bad. If it sounds too good to be true or sounds completely wrong, do more research into it and try to find out the real truth. And if a website is suggesting you buy certain things, check elsewhere beforehand to see if you actually do need them. Some companies use YouTube and social media to advertise their products and many of the items they recommend aren't needed.

 

[Mazain]

It's physically impossible to do more than 100% water change so he messed up something.

Wattley Discus needs to learn a bit more about their fish too because they still feed them beef heart and liver and refuse to give them plant matter. They have to treat their fry every month for the first few months to stop them dying because of the artificial rearing process. They have been informed of this previously but don't want to listen.

Just be careful about stuff on the internet, some of it's good and some is bad. If it sounds too good to be true or sounds completely wrong, do more research into it and try to find out the real truth. And if a website is suggesting you buy certain things, check elsewhere beforehand to see if you actually do need them. Some companies use YouTube and social media to advertise their products and many of the items they recommend aren't needed.

Wow, thought gabe was the Real Deal. Guess the cookies rumbles. I'm glad I'm on the Right forum.

 

[GaryE]

I've watched this thread since the start, and I think the title is deceptive. Discus fish are not demanding. Hobbyists are.

The problem isn't the fish, but the difficulties we have making them fit to our convenience. Our tanks are often too small and poorly designed, we want inappropriate tankmates for them and we worry about energy costs to keep their water warm. We want to avoid doing water changes, and we want nicely packaged prepared foods. We want to make Discus fit our plans. But if we don't adapt, our personal hobby dies...

There's no right forum. I'm sure gabe (whoever that is) knows more about making weird coloured Discus than most of us, and that there are people here, often silent, who know more about keeping Discus in home conditions. There are issues of hybrids, forced growth techniques, good and bad breeders, stubborn beliefs not supported by data, fish lore and all its negatives, etc. There is a lot of knowledge about these money fish, and most of it is conflicting. The fish just live in their natural habitats and that's where the real info lives too.