Whats Going On With My Cycle?

[Prime Ordeal]

Seriously, just choose any ammonia level you want between 1-4ppm and redose that amount every time it falls to zero. It'll work no matter what the level.

 

[AbbeysDad]

how much should i dose too? 2ppm maybe?

no the nitrites off the chart

there is a calculator at tab at the top of this page, calculate your tank's volume by its measurements (taking substrate,decor into concideration)
If your ammonia dropped to 2ppm in 2 hrs there is a chance you arent adding enough to get it to 4ppm
Only add "this" ammount once in 24 hrs, too much ammonia can breed the wrong kind of bacteria. And only test once in 24hrs too.

Before you dose next time, do as big as w/c as you can to lower those Nitrates down, and start dosing the correct dose of Ammonia,
Make sure your temp is 30 deg, and no lights are used, and no plants in there. HTH x

im very confused by your reply.you dont do any water changes while you're cycling. You want nitrates while you're cycling, that's what is going to eat your nitrite! The only reason you would do a water change would be if you'd accidentally added far too much ammonia which would stall the cycle.

Yes, you are confused. Nitrosomonas bacteria convert ammonia into nitrIte and Nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrItes into nitrAtes. NitrAtes are then removed with partial water changes. It would appear that that you have a developing nitrosomonas bacteria colony but the nitrobacter colony is not yet developed. The mystery is how you can have such high nitrAtes. Perhaps you need to test your tap water. Just my $.02, but if I was you, I would do a partial water change and keep adding ammonia daily as necessary but not to exceed 2-4 ppm.

 

[HayzH]

how much should i dose too? 2ppm maybe?

no the nitrites off the chart

there is a calculator at tab at the top of this page, calculate your tank's volume by its measurements (taking substrate,decor into concideration)
If your ammonia dropped to 2ppm in 2 hrs there is a chance you arent adding enough to get it to 4ppm
Only add "this" ammount once in 24 hrs, too much ammonia can breed the wrong kind of bacteria. And only test once in 24hrs too.

Before you dose next time, do as big as w/c as you can to lower those Nitrates down, and start dosing the correct dose of Ammonia,
Make sure your temp is 30 deg, and no lights are used, and no plants in there. HTH x

im very confused by your reply.you dont do any water changes while you're cycling. You want nitrates while you're cycling, that's what is going to eat your nitrite! The only reason you would do a water change would be if you'd accidentally added far too much ammonia which would stall the cycle.

Yes, you are confused. Nitrosomonas bacteria convert ammonia into nitrIte and Nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrItes into nitrAtes. NitrAtes are then removed with partial water changes. It would appear that that you have a developing nitrosomonas bacteria colony but the nitrobacter colony is not yet developed. The mystery is how you can have such high nitrAtes. Perhaps you need to test your tap water. Just my $.02, but if I was you, I would do a partial water change and keep adding ammonia daily as necessary but not to exceed 2-4 ppm.

that what i said.

The reason i suggested a w/c is because as has been said, it can breed the wrong bacteria which in turn will stall your cycle.
i also suggested it because the w/c will reduce your NitrAtes a bit, if you have been dosing the wrong amount of Ammonia, the changed to a higer dose the NitrAtes would go wayyyy up over the higher scale.
believe me i've had lots of experience in cycling tanks over the last 5 months, w/c were needed in my cycle to keep levels in a readable amount.

 

[BLUFOX]

ok thanks for all your help i understand now.i have been adding the correct amount of ammonia for the last 2 days ive been adding 2ppm.
i last put some it at 10am yesterday morning.i put 2ppm in.
here are my test results today

ammonia - 0
nitrite - off the chart
nitrate - about 30 its a little darker than 20 but im really confused why its dropped unless i read it wrong not sure how i could tho as the colour is very different

so i guess with these results the cycle is all good??

if so i should just carry on dosing 2ppm till both the ammonia and nitrite are back to zero in under 10/12 hours?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

so i guess with these results the cycle is all good??

if so i should just carry on dosing 2ppm till both the ammonia and nitrite are back to zero in under 10/12 hours?

Exactly, just keep doing what you're doing now and all will be well.

The API nitrate test can be tricky. You need to bang bottle number 2 a few times on a hard surface to loosen the precipitate which gets stuck on the bottom. Then you need to shake it for at least 30seconds.

 

[CezzaXV]

im very confused by your reply.you dont do any water changes while you're cycling. You want nitrates while you're cycling, that's what is going to eat your nitrite! The only reason you would do a water change would be if you'd accidentally added far too much ammonia which would stall the cycle.

None of this is true! Nitrates do not eat nitrite, but bacteria will convert nitrite into nitrate - this is why seeing nitrate rising in a cycle is a good thing as it means the bacteria are there. Furthermore, water changes in a cycle are absolutely fine as long as you redose ammonia to the correct level afterwards. Some here will tell you that having too high levels of nitrite will result in the wrong type of bacteria being grown. When I was fishless cycyling I was changing my water every day towards the end. Everything you're trying to achieve in a cycle goes on in the filter. Whether you're using old water or new water is of little consequence as long as it has the stuff it needs in it.

 

[BLUFOX]

well im just gonna test the nitrate 1 more time and it post back just to make sure.

 

[BLUFOX]

well i just did what you said and banged #2 bottle and gave it a good shaking and the results are between 20 & 30 so not sure what was going on yesterday

so at the moment i dont need to do a water change is that right? at what point would i need to?
i will post my results here everyday so you can see the progress.

 

[Mikaila31]

Adding too much ammonia doesn't grow the wrong type of bacteria, it just doesn't grow the ammonia eating bacteria since the bacteria is eventually effected by the toxicity. This stalls the cycle since ammonia cannot get broken down into nitrite. Bacteria grows just about everywhere. Lots of different types of bacteria grow in your tank besides Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter its just that they are not of concern to us. So I don't agree with saying "you grow the wrong kind of bacteria" you simply don't grow the kind you want.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Adding too much ammonia doesn't grow the wrong type of bacteria, it just doesn't grow the ammonia eating bacteria since the bacteria is eventually effected by the toxicity. This stalls the cycle since ammonia cannot get broken down into nitrite. Bacteria grows just about everywhere. Lots of different types of bacteria grow in your tank besides Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter its just that they are not of concern to us. So I don't agree with saying "you grow the wrong kind of bacteria" you simply don't grow the kind you want.

All of that is wrong Mikaila.

Adding too much ammonia encourages the establishment of the wrong type of bacteria because the bacteria we want in our tank work at levels of less than 0.01ppm ammonia (i.e. less than our test kits can measure). This is why you will often hear of people having a mini-cycle a week or two after they think the tank has cycled as the 'wrong' bacteria die off and the right bacteria take over.

Also the high ammonia is inhibitory to the nitratation bacteria (i.e. those that convert nitrite to nitrate).

Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are not the bacteria we have in our cycled aquarium (in any number). They are the bacteria that will grow by allowing excessive ammonia and nitrite levels however (i.e. they are the 'wrong' bacteria).

 

[Prime Ordeal]

well i just did what you said and banged #2 bottle and gave it a good shaking and the results are between 20 & 30 so not sure what was going on yesterday

so at the moment i dont need to do a water change is that right? at what point would i need to?
i will post my results here everyday so you can see the progress.

Just put that odd nitrate reading down to an anomaly as your current reading makes more sense. Test your tap water to see how much nitrate you have in it.

If you are following the forum method of cycling you don't need to do a water change until the ammonia and nitrite both fall to zero within 12 hrs of dosing. Then you do a big water change (90% usually) to clear the nitrate before putting fish in.

 

[Mikaila31]

Adding too much ammonia doesn't grow the wrong type of bacteria, it just doesn't grow the ammonia eating bacteria since the bacteria is eventually effected by the toxicity. This stalls the cycle since ammonia cannot get broken down into nitrite. Bacteria grows just about everywhere. Lots of different types of bacteria grow in your tank besides Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter its just that they are not of concern to us. So I don't agree with saying "you grow the wrong kind of bacteria" you simply don't grow the kind you want.

All of that is wrong Mikaila.

Adding too much ammonia encourages the establishment of the wrong type of bacteria because the bacteria we want in our tank work at levels of less than 0.01ppm ammonia (i.e. less than our test kits can measure). This is why you will often hear of people having a mini-cycle a week or two after they think the tank has cycled as the 'wrong' bacteria die off and the right bacteria take over.

Also the high ammonia is inhibitory to the nitratation bacteria (i.e. those that convert nitrite to nitrate).

Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are not the bacteria we have in our cycled aquarium (in any number). They are the bacteria that will grow by allowing excessive ammonia and nitrite levels however (i.e. they are the 'wrong' bacteria).

I have to disagree entirely. If ammonia is being converted to nitrite your tank is cycling fine regardless of the ammonia level you are cycling at. Once you get to a high ammonia level like 5ppm above its common that the entire thing stalls. Even if you leave it there for weeks the ammonia won't drop the slightest. Basically nothing is converting it and your cycle is going no where. Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter are indeed the bacteria that create the "cycle" in an aquarium. This is well known. If you insist that this is wrong I suggest you show some evidence or sources and say what bacteria do function in the nitrogen cycle.

A newly cycled tank does not mini-cycle if everything is done correctly. Yes after you stock the tank with fish some bacteria will likely die off because the goal of the cycle was to grow more then needed. This will not cause a mini-cycle of any sorts. Mini-cycles often arise to do a change in the nitrogen cycle this change can be obvious or can be indirectly related. The fish tank is a mini-ecosystem consisting of many bacteria, algae and protozoans. In a newly established system it is easy to disrupt since many don't realize they are there or there importance. Then the effects cascade.

When you are cycling a tank all you really care about is ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate very rarely matters in most aquariums. Ignore nitrate completely IMO. Add ammonia, test for ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia peaks, then nitrite peaks. When both fall back to zero within 12 hours of adding ammonia your tank is cycled. Full water change gets rid of the nitrates, stock with fish right away and your good.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

If that's what you choose to believe then so be it. I'm tired of having to correct contrafactual beliefs.

I know there are others on this forum who can accurately critique what you're saying because it is full of basic errors, and I hope they will.

But I will leave you with a teaser...Dr Tim Hovanec...look him up, you just might learn a thing or two.

 

[Mikaila31]

I took your 'nicely' offered hint and did read his research papers. Regardless I didn't learn much and very little to back up what you are saying. His research indicated Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria being the nitrifying bacteria in aquariums. I will agree that it is likely nitrospira and not nitrobacter that convert nitrite to nitrate. Nitrosomonas are certainly present and the main converters of ammonia to nitrite. Other then that I found no other information contradicting what I said. If you feel their are errors, point them out. That is the purpose of a forum, not to say someone is wrong and refuse to say why.

I will easily admit I don't like cycling or anything about the process. Which is why I prefer to avoid it the best I can when setting up new tanks.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

May I politely suggest that, just as you found out this small snippet by research, that you go and do more research, then you can make your comments from an informed standpoint. I'll just repeat that all that you said was, and still is, wrong.