What are you doing today?

[Alice B]

I'm imagining by "get rid of him" they mean they'll give or sell him to someone else.

The problem is fairly easily resolved, for owners of aggressive dogs. Basket muzzles are not cruel, allow the dog to pant and to drink - people who take in ex-racing Greyhounds commonly use them, because they're aware of the potential drives of their breed, and accept the limitations and responsibilities that come with that. Not all ex-racers need them or are prone to it, but the fact is they're bred to chase a small furry thing as fast as they can - and they're incredibly fast.

That often means off-lead time usually means only in an enclosed area, careful around cats, especially unfamiliar, unknown cats, and other small furries. If the dog is likely to nip or potentially fight with other dogs, whether from excitement or lack of socialisation, and prone to chase either small furries, or huge mammals like deer - they put a basket muzzle on their dog if it needs it.

Because they know no matter and sweet and goofy they usually are, they are hunting dogs. Sighthounds with incredible distance vision, incredible speed, but not much endurance, and ex-racers at least, bred for a high prey drive.

I rarely, RARELY see a bully breed with a muzzle, even the ones that really, really needed one.

The solution is that the aggressive dog doesn't go outside without a strong lead/tether, a muzzle, and supervision. Isn't allowed around other dogs, kids, or elderly people- best kept away from unknown people. And if that isn't possible, or they can't provide any kind of decent quality of life and can't keep others safe from the dog, then euthanising is the responsible and often kindest thing.

AdoraBelle, I saved a poorly treated 1 year old GSD mix from the pound. The next year he repaid me by waiting until I went to work and carefully lifting the hook on my chicken coop, then killing all my hens. I put an electric fence on the coop, put more hens in it and gave him a personal introduction to the fence. He was involved in the attack on Teddy a year and a half later. There were no incidents with the other dogs until my big rottweiler pack leader died, then he decided to attack the other males but generally no serious injuries and he did it when I was at work.
The attack on Teddy, those dogs had been in the back yard for less than 5 minutes when I heard Teddy scream. I got he and Camelo to turn loose. Maybe Teddy started it. Maybe. 35 staples and drain lines and misc vet visits for a month with antibiotics. 3 years later Bravo attacked Camelo in my office for no reason in front of me. I attempted to get him loose and he bit me. I dangled an 80 lb dog with a 60 lb dog dangling from his mouth until he dropped Camelo. 2 minutes later all aggression was forgotten. I believe the dog had a brain injury. It was a sunday, during covid. I consulted a friend who was an ACO from the city I adopted Bronx from and she advised me to have Bravo put down, because shelters will adopt a dog out to anyone that steps up, if you tag dog "dog-aggressive" they will still adopt him out. If a kid was between him and Camelo in my office at least he'd have been trampled by Bravo. The dog would periodically snap. He was put to sleep at my vet who had treated all the dog injuries since I'd gotten him. I had to lie about being bitten, but he'd had his rabies shots. He didn't have rabies. I couldn't be there to watch him every minute or crate him, I was not having visiting grandchildren at risk and this was at least his 5th offense. He was humanely pts. It is irresponsible to adopt out a vicious dog.

 

[JuiceBox52]

Sigh, by "get rid of him" I assume that you mean having the dog put down. I mean they can't just give it away or take to a shelter as that would just move the aggressive behavior to another location.

I don't recall you saying the breed of the aggressive dog. Is it one that is subject to extreme inbreeding issues such as a pit bull? If so I can't see much of an option than the dog be put down. These kinds of situations tick me off as the fault goes to us humans, not the dog breed.

BTW, I'm not putting down pit bulls as they can be very gentle and friendly pets. The problem is not the breed but breeders and 'puppy farms' taking zero responsibility. LOL! The last maintenance guy for my apartments had a HUGE pit bull at around 100 pounds. I will admit that this dog was an extreme danger as it would drown you in slime licking your face if you scratched behind his ears.

He is a kengal/great Pyrenees

 

[JuiceBox52]

I'm imagining by "get rid of him" they mean they'll give or sell him to someone else.

The problem is fairly easily resolved, for owners of aggressive dogs. Basket muzzles are not cruel, allow the dog to pant and to drink - people who take in ex-racing Greyhounds commonly use them, because they're aware of the potential drives of their breed, and accept the limitations and responsibilities that come with that. Not all ex-racers need them or are prone to it, but the fact is they're bred to chase a small furry thing as fast as they can - and they're incredibly fast.

That often means off-lead time usually means only in an enclosed area, careful around cats, especially unfamiliar, unknown cats, and other small furries. If the dog is likely to nip or potentially fight with other dogs, whether from excitement or lack of socialisation, and prone to chase either small furries, or huge mammals like deer - they put a basket muzzle on their dog if it needs it.

Because they know no matter and sweet and goofy they usually are, they are hunting dogs. Sighthounds with incredible distance vision, incredible speed, but not much endurance, and ex-racers at least, bred for a high prey drive.

I rarely, RARELY see a bully breed with a muzzle, even the ones that really, really needed one.

The solution is that the aggressive dog doesn't go outside without a strong lead/tether, a muzzle, and supervision. Isn't allowed around other dogs, kids, or elderly people- best kept away from unknown people. And if that isn't possible, or they can't provide any kind of decent quality of life and can't keep others safe from the dog, then euthanising is the responsible and often kindest thing.

Unfortunately as a livestock guardian dog, he can’t be an indoor dog or be muzzled, it would be miserable for him

 

[Alice B]

He is a kengal/great Pyrenees

He's got to be huge. And dangerous outside of his domain, if they obsess about another animal or a person, anything in their way can be run over at least. (I've also had border collie/gsd mixes and they are OCD about one thing - my female it was cats, my male it was tall thin male humans).

Most dogs have a reason for their behavior. I had Bravo 5 years, so he was 6 when he was put down, The former owner beat him with a 2x4 I think, possible brain injury or just ptsd. I don't beat dogs.

I hope your dog gets better. Livestock Guard Dogs aren't my area of specialty, but we have more loose Great Pyrenees around here on any given day than I can count. At least most are not aggressive.. Thank goodness

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Unfortunately as a livestock guardian dog, he can’t be an indoor dog or be muzzled, it would be miserable for him

Why would a basket muzzle be miserable for him? Most dogs can be muzzle trained.

But they made a big mistake getting a dog they cannot handle in a completely unsuitable environment. Sounds like he isn't being used as a livestock guardian dog, hasn't been taught to respect the boundaries, and is taking out his excess energy in devastating ways.

This is why it's so important that people research their breeds, and be honest with themselves about the pros and cons of each breed, what kind of life they need, and whether they can provide that.

Is this area lots of wide open country, or more like a suburb with lots of neighbours?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

but we have more loose Great Pyrenees around here on any given day than I can count. At least most are not aggressive.

It's more likely the Kangal half that is most dog aggressive, unfortunately.

 

[Alice B]

I have no way breeds on my list. Chihuahuas. Yes I had one before children, used to chase my neighbor's irish setter around the block every morning. After Bravo, despite 3 of my dogs being part GSD, there will be no more German Shepherds. Too much prey drive, too possessive, guarding of property with me being the property. My old dogs are fine, but no more GSD. I am not getting younger. My other no way breed is Australian Cattle Dog - Teddy is 25% ACD and that is probably why he starts trouble with the other male dogs, but is a great people dog, kid dog. I mean a toddler can walk him on a leash. And I love Ted, but I'm not doing this again. GSD/ACD combination caused big problems here when I'd had him a year and he decided to take my biggest dog out. So no more. No way I would have a Kangal. I'd have a Great Pyrenees if I had a farm, but i am so allergic to fluff - Ted is also 25% Great Pyr - can't have in house, Teddy is in house but 40 lbs fluff is less than 100 lbs fluff. If I only had ONE dog, I'm not sure what I would want. A Teddy dog would be good, I mean this guy is velcro. He is just not good in a pack

 

[JuiceBox52]

Why would a basket muzzle be miserable for him? Most dogs can be muzzle trained.

But they made a big mistake getting a dog they cannot handle in a completely unsuitable environment. Sounds like he isn't being used as a livestock guardian dog, hasn't been taught to respect the boundaries, and is taking out his excess energy in devastating ways.

This is why it's so important that people research their breeds, and be honest with themselves about the pros and cons of each breed, what kind of life they need, and whether they can provide that.

Is this area lots of wide open country, or more like a suburb with lots of neighbours?

Indoor would be miserable is what I meant. He would have to be supervised if muzzled and be mostly indoor. He’s a livestock guardian dog, But he cannot work or do his job, living outdoors, if he is muzzled.

He has most definitely been taught and does his job wonderfully, he’s never attacked anyone else and wasn’t always like this. He did just fine for years, and no fence was needed. He came over and protected our flock and herd while our dog would do the same for theirs. It’s a large country area, they have 15 acres, we have 5

 

[Alice B]

maybe a different dog trainer could help. I was told that the combination of GSD / ACD at a high per centage gave me the dog I had and the aggressive behavior could not be trained out. On Bravo after 5 years of consistent home, feeding, training, obedience class I knew his was something wrong with dog. but consulting a trainer that works with Kengal would be my next step if he was mine. Also his vet. Dogs get tumors, and I know my 10 year old rottie in his last months with mast cell had something wrong in his brain. he picked up a dog he'd known for 5 years by its head and tossed it when I said drop it. This was a 60 lb dog. When the tumors on chest got bad, after 3 years fighting mast cell, he got a pup burger on the way to be pts, had a grand mal seizure while they were inserting the iv. He was still alive when they brought him back into the room for me to see, but he was unconscious. I guess goodbye was at Sonic. A thorough checkup is a good investment on an otherwise well behaved animal.

 

[Oldspartan]

I do not believe in making excuses for dogs that are violent. I recognize that more often than not it is the human that causes the problem but be that as it may any dog that creates havoc with my critters is not one that will survive. A bit harsh but that is what is actually required.

 

[gwand]

We have guests this weekend. Today we went to the Visionary Art Museum. Fascinating place. I came across this work relevant to TTF.

 

[GaryE]

There's something fishy about those designs.

 

[Back in the fold]

I feel funny airing my laundry in public but “She Who Must Be Obeyed” had to be taken to the emergency room yesterday . She has become immobile with no leg function at all and a cancer in one leg has reappeared . A talk with the doctor today revealed that a CAT scan and lab work confirmed that her end is near . They are arranging in home hospice for us and I will be on a vigil for the immediate near future . It bewilders me how these things come barreling out of left field and hit you like a freight train when you are not just least expecting it but totally unaware that it’s coming . Deannasue that used to be on The Great TFF Forum once said that “ life changes in an instant “ when relating a story about her sister who got sick . She was sure right about that - “life changes in an instant” .

 

[GaryE]

@Back in the fold If you need to talk or just vent, PM me. I'm out here, thinking of you.

 

[gwand]

I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope your love one has a peaceful transition. This forum is an appropriate venue for the happy and sad news. We care about you.