Wend's Fishless Cycle Log

[Wend]

Temp 29. This wee tank is 2/3 full, thats about 20l. When I get my wee crabs they will want some dry land space so thats why its not full to the top.

Day 1, 10th March

Day 1 - PH 7.4 - ammonia 4 -
Day 2 - PH 7.4 - ammonia 4 -
Day 3 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 - (tsp bicarb added has raised PH)
Day 4 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 -
Day 5 - PH 8.2 - ammonia 4
Day 6 - PH 8.4 - ammonia 4 - possibly looking a bit lighter shade of green but could be me wanting it to look that way. Did partial water change to bring PH back down a bit, its now back to 8.2. Very brownish tinge to water.
Day 7 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 or less, possibly between 2 and 4. Should I have checked and topped it up after yesterday's water change?

No nitrates present, so yes I should have topped up ammonia. Redosed, now at 4 ppm

Day 8 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4
Day 9 - boring
Day 10 - boring
Day 11 etc etc etc

Day 14 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 1.0 - nitrite 2.0 !!!
Day 15 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 0.0 - nitrite 2.0 redosed ammonia to 4ppm
Day 16 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 0.0
redosed ammonia to 4ppm, didnt bother with nitrites today

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Wend, the idea is not to -keep- it at 4ppm but to simply test and log/record the values as it slowly drops (4ppm, 3ppm, 2ppm, 1ppm, zero ppm) and then when it hopefully reaches a true zero ppm to sort of celebrate by getting to have a "dosing" day, lol. You re-dose it to 4ppm again and see if that slow drop takes fewer days the next time.

Usually it's extremely slow or does not visibly move the first week or two but then slowly makes it's first drop to zero. Usually the next time is noticably faster and then often by the third time it may take only a day to drop to zero. Once it is reliably dropping from 4ppm to zero ppm in a day you of course know that your A-Bac colony has reached a kind of crossover point in size and that the next goal will be when it can chomp through that in 12 hours. But before you can worry about that you have another thing on your mind:

The first nitrites will usually have a appeared about the time that ammonia begins dropping quickly. They usually quickly go into excess (this is because for each 1ppm of ammonia that the A-Bacs process, they put out 2.7ppm of nitrite(NO2) and this is more than the fledgling N-Bac colony can even begin to get through.) As soon as this excess nitrite(NO2) hits the highest number the nitrite test can display, we call the situation the "nitrite spike" phase (it's the second phase out of three) of fishless cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Wend]

I think the slight drop in ammonia was purely down to the significant water change I did, as opposed to drop in ammonia due to bacterial activity.

Still no change today so Im still waiting for the first signs of a genuine drop. I guess its still early days - day 8. Ill not do anymore water changes for now!

 

[Ifti]

Yup, no water changes, and just keep an eye on Ammonia levels for now (every 24 hours).
You are waiting for the ammonia to drop down to 0ppm, at which time you can re-dose, and then check for Nitrites....I think!

 

[Skins]

Yup, no water changes, and just keep an eye on Ammonia levels for now (every 24 hours).
You are waiting for the ammonia to drop down to 0ppm, at which time you can re-dose, and then check for Nitrites....I think!

Spot on

 

[Wend]

Hi, OK Im on day 6. No change yet but its gonna get interesting any day now so here goes:

Temp 29. This wee tank is 2/3 full, thats about 20l. When I get my wee crabs they will want some dry land space so thats why its not full to the top.

Day 1, 10th March

Day 1 - PH 7.4 - ammonia 4 -
Day 2 - PH 7.4 - ammonia 4 -
Day 3 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 - (tsp bicarb added has raised PH)
Day 4 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 -
Day 5 - PH 8.2 - ammonia 4
Day 6 - PH 8.4 - ammonia 4 - possibly looking a bit lighter shade of green but could be me wanting it to look that way.
Day 7 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4 or less, possibly between 2 and 4.
Day 8 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 4
Day 9 - boring
Day 10 - boring
Day 11 etc etc etc yaaawn

Day 14 - PH 8.0 - ammonia 1.0 - nitrite 2.0 !!!

YES!! Finally I have a drop in ammonia and some nitrites present. Excellent!! Im getting somewhere.

 

[sweetmeister]

Hi
Im just about to start my fishless cycle! I am aware after reading this thread that I need to dose to 4ppm of ammonia to start with,but If you dont mind,how much ammonia does this equate to? How much do I put in and how?

Sorry to hijack your thread a little.

 

[kporteo]

Hi Im just about to start my fishless cycle! I am aware after reading this thread that I need to dose to 4ppm of ammonia to start with,but If you dont mind,how much ammonia does this equate to? How much do I put in and how?Sorry to hijack your thread a little.

Use the Calculator tab at the top of the page - presume the amount is an overestimate, add slightly less, test the dose tiny amounts till you get to 4ppm. Remember your total amount you added as this will be the amount youl need each time you redose to 4ppm.

K

 

[Wend]

Hi Im just about to start my fishless cycle! I am aware after reading this thread that I need to dose to 4ppm of ammonia to start with,but If you dont mind,how much ammonia does this equate to? How much do I put in and how?Sorry to hijack your thread a little.

Use the Calculator tab at the top of the page - presume the amount is an overestimate, add slightly less, test the dose tiny amounts till you get to 4ppm. Remember your total amount you added as this will be the amount youl need each time you redose to 4ppm.

K

I bought a wee dropper bottle. I added 4 drops of ammonia, my tank holds about 20l. I tested and it was bang on. I guess just add a drop or two at a time and re-test until its right.

Oh and PS, I printed out one of the 'Fishless Cycle - Add and Wait' guides I got on this forum. Some people add then as a link on their messages. Its been very useful, having read many guides I stick to the one now and refer to it often, saves getting confused.

Good luck!

 

[sweetmeister]

Thanks folks,Just did the calculation for my 165 litre tank i reckon I need to add 7ml to start with.Am I right in thinking I only add the ammonia until i get to 4ppm and then add none until it gets down to zero? Then top back up to 4ppm again?

Just got to find somwhere that sells the stuuff now!!!

Could you give me a link to the cycle i need tp print out please.

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

Thanks folks,Just did the calculation for my 165 litre tank i reckon I need to add 7ml to start with.Am I right in thinking I only add the ammonia until i get to 4ppm and then add none until it gets down to zero? Then top back up to 4ppm again?

Just got to find somwhere that sells the stuuff now!!!

Could you give me a link to the cycle i need tp print out please.

Thats correct.
If your in the UK then boots is the best bet and its the same concentration as the calculator uses.
If you get anything with a different concentration then make sure you change the calculator setting.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree, in the UK Boots is our most common one, in the USA Ace Hardware has become a reliable option. You haven't mentioned your location in your profile yet.

And yes, you are correct, you get the tank up to that initial 4ppm concentration and then it will probably just sit at that concentration for a week or so before you detect that it has begun to drop toward a zero concentration. It's not until it reaches zero ppm that you re-dose.

The way you detect the concentration is via a good liquid-reagent based water test kit. Many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, but there are others that can work too. At the time you first dose it is a good idea to think through what your schedule will be. You will need to run your tests at about 24 hours after you dose, but you should also plan ahead to accommodate the ability to also do "12-hour" tests way off in the future. What you need to think about is what hour out of the 24 makes it more possible that you will be home from work or school (for instance) at both the dosing/24-hour test time of day and the 12-hour test-only time of day (for instance, 7pm and 7am.)

Another detail of watching your ammonia "drop to zero" is that it's nice if it appears to behave by dropping clearly to zero, but sometimes it will get very close to zero but sort of stick somewhere below 0.25ppm (a trace of green if using the API ammonia test.) In these cases it's easier to just go ahead and re-dose to 4ppm rather than fret about the non-zero for days.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[sweetmeister]

Agree, in the UK Boots is our most common one, in the USA Ace Hardware has become a reliable option. You haven't mentioned your location in your profile yet.

And yes, you are correct, you get the tank up to that initial 4ppm concentration and then it will probably just sit at that concentration for a week or so before you detect that it has begun to drop toward a zero concentration. It's not until it reaches zero ppm that you re-dose.

The way you detect the concentration is via a good liquid-reagent based water test kit. Many of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, but there are others that can work too. At the time you first dose it is a good idea to think through what your schedule will be. You will need to run your tests at about 24 hours after you dose, but you should also plan ahead to accommodate the ability to also do "12-hour" tests way off in the future. What you need to think about is what hour out of the 24 makes it more possible that you will be home from work or school (for instance) at both the dosing/24-hour test time of day and the 12-hour test-only time of day (for instance, 7pm and 7am.)

Another detail of watching your ammonia "drop to zero" is that it's nice if it appears to behave by dropping clearly to zero, but sometimes it will get very close to zero but sort of stick somewhere below 0.25ppm (a trace of green if using the API ammonia test.) In these cases it's easier to just go ahead and re-dose to 4ppm rather than fret about the non-zero for days.

~~waterdrop~~

Thankyou very much for taking the time to explain.Yes I am in the UK so its off for a trip to boots!!
Am in right in thinking no water changes at all at this point either? Best temperature to set water at?

I have already bought myself the API test kit.

 

[waterdrop]

Correct, you want to minimize water changes throughout a fishless cycle because they cause "pauses" in the bacterial activity, but the best way to conduct a fishless cycle is with a "fishless cycle thread" where you share your daily log with the members. At some of the later stages a water change is often called for to "kickstart" a fishless cycle back in to normalcy and the members can help with that.

Log contents:
Day X (as opposed to date) (because we want to instantly see cycle length and not have to calculate it in our heads when advising)
NH3, NO2, pH, NO3 (but not all are needed at all times)
Temp, water clarity, other observations,
Actions (important to clearly communicate when and what you add to the tank)
Type of test (normal 24-hour report or half-day 12-hour report)
(usually all this is a one-liner in the first post of your thread)
(all the basics and details of your tank (water volume, dimensions etc.) are in that first post too, ideally)

I also feel that totally separate from this, one should keep a personal aquarium notebook or some sort of data storage and diary for one's hobby. Many who have done this have reported back that it has been invaluable after a period of time. They would not have remembered various seemingly obvious details (date a fish arrived, trend of poison tests etc.) without their little spiral notebook or whatever they use.

OK, back to your cycle. You don't want to do filter cleanings (if possible) just like you don't want to do water changes unless advised. The immature bacterial colonies are better treated gently at first (not that they're that fragile, this is just to maximize your chances of saving time.. not slowing down the slow process.) And yes, temperature is quite important. I really like 29C/84F as a fishless cycling temperature for the "bacterial growing soup."

~~waterdrop~~

 

[sweetmeister]

Correct, you want to minimize water changes throughout a fishless cycle because they cause "pauses" in the bacterial activity, but the best way to conduct a fishless cycle is with a "fishless cycle thread" where you share your daily log with the members. At some of the later stages a water change is often called for to "kickstart" a fishless cycle back in to normalcy and the members can help with that.

Log contents:
Day X (as opposed to date) (because we want to instantly see cycle length and not have to calculate it in our heads when advising)
NH3, NO2, pH, NO3 (but not all are needed at all times)
Temp, water clarity, other observations,
Actions (important to clearly communicate when and what you add to the tank)
Type of test (normal 24-hour report or half-day 12-hour report)
(usually all this is a one-liner in the first post of your thread)
(all the basics and details of your tank (water volume, dimensions etc.) are in that first post too, ideally)

I also feel that totally separate from this, one should keep a personal aquarium notebook or some sort of data storage and diary for one's hobby. Many who have done this have reported back that it has been invaluable after a period of time. They would not have remembered various seemingly obvious details (date a fish arrived, trend of poison tests etc.) without their little spiral notebook or whatever they use.

OK, back to your cycle. You don't want to do filter cleanings (if possible) just like you don't want to do water changes unless advised. The immature bacterial colonies are better treated gently at first (not that they're that fragile, this is just to maximize your chances of saving time.. not slowing down the slow process.) And yes, temperature is quite important. I really like 29C/84F as a fishless cycling temperature for the "bacterial growing soup."

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks very much for the advice,maybe I will start a thread as you suggest.
One more thing,I have an Aqua one ar850 tank which contains carbon cartridges in the filter tray.Im sure I have read that these are no good and are not required,if this is the case what would you suggest I replace them with?
Would they interfer with the cycle process?