Advice- moved 3 week cycled tank to bigger one 4 days ago.

[jen1313]

I would not add any fish until everything is clearly resolved. Give it a week of consistent readings (zero ammonia and nitrite). What fish are you intending? And what fish do you have now for reference. Some may need more of the species.

"Boost up the nitrates"...you always want nitrate as low as you can have it, which usually comes down to any nitrate in the tap water (unavoidable) and then from the fish load. Live plants help keep nitrates lower, as does not heavily stocking, and minimal feeding. Fish do not need much food, many way overfeed and this is only making things worse.

I always add the conditioner to the tank right after I start refilling, but these were largish tanks, I changed more than 60% of each. You can add the conditioner before starting the refill. Less risk.

i currently have a congo tetra, about 5 small guppies, a platy, a giant danio, 1 neon (because 5 dissappeared/died/was eaten?) 2 dwarf guarami, a small rasbora, an x ray fish and a loach. my tap water reads 0 nitrates, and when i searched my postcode with the water company they gave those readings i posted on page 2.

i am having fish delivered friday next week so it would be 8 days since they've been in the tank by then, and i've ordered a brittlenose catfish, some rams, some more guarami and some more congo tetra/xray to make a school. also more goop just to add in for good measure.

 

[Byron]

hey there,

yes i am aware its a good thign but i am concerned because inmy 75l tank i had 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia and i had nitrates. however, in this tank since they've moved over, there are no nitrates at all. i was under the impression it should have some and if it doesn't it is maybe not cycled? if my old 75L tank was cycled, and i moved everything inc fish into the new tank, does that guarentee it will be cycled also? despite having no nitrates for 5 days?

"If I moved everything inc fish into the new tank does that guarantee it will be cycled also"...no. The biological system of an aquarium involves various living creatures and several natural processes. This really can get involved, and you can read the cycling articles. But the presence or absences of nitrates does not mean it is or is not cycled. It depends how everything was done. If you moved over filter media without washing it, or substrate, then you would have moved over bacteria but it may or may not be enough. Continue doing what @Essjay advised on the cycling.

I'm going to let @Essjay deal with the nitrate level in your tap water, she has explained this elsewhere and better than I can, with her chemistry background. I will move on to mention issues with the fish; this is looking forward to when all the cycling stuff is resolved and completed.

First, the existing fish that will be in this tank. The platy is a livebearer and needs harder water, though this is less critical than it is for mollies. Guppies are also livebearers, but these days their condition is questionable, and they might survive. Not sure what to suggest here, since you have the fish. Definitely do not acquire any new livebearers, they will not be in good shape long-term. Survive is not the same as thrive.

The tetras, danio, loach, rasbora, X-Ray (presumably a tetra like the Pristella?) are fish that shoal. They need a group with several of their own. They have an inherent need in their genetic makeup for this, and we now have clear evidence that even small groups have problems, they need somewhere around ten of each. There is some latitude with numbers depending upon the species, but there is no disputing the fact that without a group, they can get more aggressive and be under stress, which of course leads to other issues like a weakened immune system. The Congo should have 10 or more, no question at all. This fish loves to swim, two males will do races down the tank length. Denying them this is just not fair, when the need is part of their genetics. Neons need 10-12 or more.

Giant Danio...this is another problem waiting to happen. This fish attains 4 inches, but most sources say 5-6 is possible. It must be kept in a group due to its high level of interaction; 8 is considered the minimum number. Their activeness makes them unsuited to any slow or sedate fish, and they are best with medium/larger danio, peaceful barbs, and loaches. Several sources mention their boisterous aggressiveness including fin nipping, and this will more likely be curtailed and confined to "play" if a group of 8 or more are kept in a 4+ foot tank with suitable tankmates. These fish are jumpers, so a tight cover is a must. Up to you to rehome the one, or get another seven.

Loach...what species? Some of these get huger, they have a strong hierarchy and social interaction, and may eat small fish. Need more info on this one.

Rasbora...shoaling too, but what species?

Gourami are sedate, and will not appreciate the activity level of some of the shoaling fish. Another one difficult to suggest. I know what I would do with some of these issues, but they are your fish and I need to help you work things out for the best. But there are some issues that just cannot be skirted around.

 

[jen1313]

"If I moved everything inc fish into the new tank does that guarantee it will be cycled also"...no. The biological system of an aquarium involves various living creatures and several natural processes. This really can get involved, and you can read the cycling articles. But the presence or absences of nitrates does not mean it is or is not cycled. It depends how everything was done. If you moved over filter media without washing it, or substrate, then you would have moved over bacteria but it may or may not be enough. Continue doing what @Essjay advised on the cycling.

I'm going to let @Essjay deal with the nitrate level in your tap water, she has explained this elsewhere and better than I can, with her chemistry background. I will move on to mention issues with the fish; this is looking forward to when all the cycling stuff is resolved and completed.

First, the existing fish that will be in this tank. The platy is a livebearer and needs harder water, though this is less critical than it is for mollies. Guppies are also livebearers, but these days their condition is questionable, and they might survive. Not sure what to suggest here, since you have the fish. Definitely do not acquire any new livebearers, they will not be in good shape long-term. Survive is not the same as thrive.

The tetras, danio, loach, rasbora, X-Ray (presumably a tetra like the Pristella?) are fish that shoal. They need a group with several of their own. They have an inherent need in their genetic makeup for this, and we now have clear evidence that even small groups have problems, they need somewhere around ten of each. There is some latitude with numbers depending upon the species, but there is no disputing the fact that without a group, they can get more aggressive and be under stress, which of course leads to other issues like a weakened immune system. The Congo should have 10 or more, no question at all. This fish loves to swim, two males will do races down the tank length. Denying them this is just not fair, when the need is part of their genetics. Neons need 10-12 or more.

Giant Danio...this is another problem waiting to happen. This fish attains 4 inches, but most sources say 5-6 is possible. It must be kept in a group due to its high level of interaction; 8 is considered the minimum number. Their activeness makes them unsuited to any slow or sedate fish, and they are best with medium/larger danio, peaceful barbs, and loaches. Several sources mention their boisterous aggressiveness including fin nipping, and this will more likely be curtailed and confined to "play" if a group of 8 or more are kept in a 4+ foot tank with suitable tankmates. These fish are jumpers, so a tight cover is a must. Up to you to rehome the one, or get another seven.

Loach...what species? Some of these get huger, they have a strong hierarchy and social interaction, and may eat small fish. Need more info on this one.

Rasbora...shoaling too, but what species?

Gourami are sedate, and will not appreciate the activity level of some of the shoaling fish. Another one difficult to suggest. I know what I would do with some of these issues, but they are your fish and I need to help you work things out for the best. But there are some issues that just cannot be skirted around.

thanks for that, i did move everything over yes without washing so hopefully that will have worked!

yeah i am aware what fish are ok and not ok to go into my tank and i do try to research as much as poss before adding, but unfortunately when i first added the fish i did get a combination of good and bad for the same tank, ie mollies with the gaurami. i did mention a few posts ago that i got rid of the mollies to a guy near me as they weren't doing ok in my water and it was horrible to watch them shimmy, the guppies are doing ok so is the platy but i am keeping a close eye on them, believe me when i say i do want the best for them and wouldn't want any living thing to suffer for my pleasure or enjoyment of something looking 'nice', i do not want anymore live bearers, nor will i be buying anymore of these fish for this tank.

i have ordered more x-ray tetras and congos to make up a school for now, there will be about 6/7 in total for each species of these. (i do not want to overload this tank too much atm my intentiion is to see what the tanks looking like after these new fish arrive next week but again yeah i am aware these are not meant to be kept individually so if i do have capacity and all is well i can always add more rasbora and danio, i am a bit relucatiant on the danio just because it is quite speedy, its zipping about alot compared to my other fish, atm the congo isnt too hyperactive compared to the others, i think the danio is from what i can tell, so i wanted to see the atmos in the tank before i added more danio) the congo are actually my favourite in the tank so far. the ones i purchased said the max growth was 10cm. all from tropco.

Loach- i cant' remember the name its black and orangy/striped, hides most of the time, i thought this was dead actually until i moved tanks then i found him alive and well.

i don't want to get rid of the guiarami, i have 2 atm and they are doing very well with the others in the tank no trouble at all, i have alot of hiding spaces for them too, i am putting another 4 of these in. i am havign mixed advice around these online as some peopel are saying yes put them in a group and others saying not the best idea, i guess it will be a wait and see situation but i'm hoping it goes well, i have neon ones atm and i'm adding peach/pearl ones.

thanks so much

 

[seangee]

Loach- i cant' remember the name its black and orangy/striped, hides most of the time, i thought this was dead actually until i moved tanks then i found him alive and well.

Its most likely a clown loach. https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus
Your tank is most likely too small and they need to be in groups of at least 5 (10 is better). Lovely fish - I had to sell mine when I downsized from a 450l to a 200l tank and they were all between 10 & 12 inches at the time.

Don't get me started on how I get when I see fish shops with one or two in a tiny tank telling people they make great community fish.
FWIW (in case I am wrong about the species) loaches are very sensitive to water quality, so if you do get him some friends wait until you are absolutely sure the tank is cycled.

Edit: He's hiding because he is alone - these are very active fish.

 

[jen1313]

Its most likely a clown loach. https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus
Your tank is most likely too small and they need to be in groups of at least 5 (10 is better). Lovely fish - I had to sell mine when I downsized from a 450l to a 200l tank and they were all between 10 & 12 inches at the time.

Don't get me started on how I get when I see fish shops with one or two in a tiny tank telling people they make great community fish.
FWIW (in case I am wrong about the species) loaches are very sensitive to water quality, so if you do get him some friends wait until you are absolutely sure the tank is cycled.

Edit: He's hiding because he is alone - these are very active fish.

ahh no it's a Kuhli Loach- like an eel looking thing

 

[Essjay]

That's a lot better than a clown loach But they do need company of their own kind.

 

[jen1313]

That's a lot better than a clown loach But they do need company of their own kind.

great ok, i will look into getting more maybe thank you! do you think my tank will be overstocked with the below:

5 guppies (may move into another tank or rehome)
6 dwarf gaurami
6 neon tetra
6- x-ray fish
6- congo tetra
1 galaxy rasbora
1 kuhli loach
1 snow white brittlenose
4 balloon rams
1 platy
1 blue goby

 

[seangee]

I would avoid dwarf gourami - they are prone to health issues which can threaten your whole tank. From the SF profile

Unfortunately the general quality of dwarf gouramis available to fishkeepers has diminished dramatically in recent years. Some shops have actually ceased to stock the species as they are unable to obtain disease-free stock from Far Eastern (primarily Singaporean) breeders and have experienced high losses. It’s thought that mass-breeding for the hobby may have resulted in a widespread epidemic of a disease known as Dwarf gourami iridovirus (DGIV). This Megalocytivirus species appears to be very infectious and thus far has proved untreatable. A study conducted in Australia in 2006 revealed that as many as 22% of dwarf gouramis coming out of Singapore were carrying the disease.

The apparent susceptibility of dwarf gouramis to illness was previously blamed on bacterial infections such as fish TB and Nocardia–type afflictions, but it now appears that DGIV may play a very significant role. Worryingly, it has recently been shown that DGIV can be transmitted to other species sharing the same water as an infected gourami. It goes without saying that these fish should be observed very carefully before buying. Avoid tanks that contains lethargic-looking or darkened specimens. Ask about the origins of them, and if there have been any losses in the shop. In our opinion, finding a local breeder is an option well worth considering.

The percentage of diseased fish is very much higher than that now!

I would also avoid galaxy rasbora - I keep these in a nano tank. They are tiny, very timid and best in groups of 20 or more. They will be outcompeted for food by the other species you suggest and will spend all their time hiding. They are not actually rasbora although the name is still commonly used (celestial pearl danio, or CPD is the usual common name - or celestichthys margaritatus), if you did want small rasbora I would go for something like lambchop rasbora (trigonostigma espei ).

Bristlenose is fine. For the tetras I would up the numbers as @Byron suggests. You do have the space, but IMO its better to have larger groups of fewer species than going for a big variety.
I have never kept rams or gobies so will leave that to those that have.

P.S. The reason I (and many others) use the binomial names is for avoidance of doubt. Fish shops are renowned for making up names for the fish they sell

 

[jen1313]

I would avoid dwarf gourami - they are prone to health issues which can threaten your whole tank. From the SF profile

The percentage of diseased fish is very much higher than that now!

I would also avoid galaxy rasbora - I keep these in a nano tank. They are tiny, very timid and best in groups of 20 or more. They will be outcompeted for food by the other species you suggest and will spend all their time hiding. They are not actually rasbora although the name is still commonly used (celestial pearl danio, or CPD is the usual common name - or celestichthys margaritatus), if you did want small rasbora I would go for something like lambchop rasbora (trigonostigma espei ).

Bristlenose is fine. For the tetras I would up the numbers as @Byron suggests. You do have the space, but IMO its better to have larger groups of fewer species than going for a big variety.
I have never kept rams or gobies so will leave that to those that have.

P.S. The reason I (and many others) use the binomial names is for avoidance of doubt. Fish shops are renowned for making up names for the fish they sell

oh goodness, i didn't know about that. would the 2 i've had now about 3 weeks, have shown any signs of anything by now? i hope i am not being naive when saying this, but i have visited quite alot of fish shops over the last few months and i haven't wanted to buy any fish from them after seeing their tanks etc, but i've seen quite a few videos from inside tropco and their tanks/fish all looked great, then again, the tanks are kept empty from what i seen so no plants etc or substrate, maybe that isn't giving the best idea of if their standards are very high, but i thought they were trustworthy. it's where i've gotten all my fish from. if there is a better website out there then i'm open to suggestions too. i will also look into local breeders of fish next time too. thanks for that

also interesting about the names too. would i be ok with these with rainbow fish at all? with the ones i have?

and i hear what you're saying about having too many mix and match fish. i wish i had known alot more about this before i stocked my tank as it is already as i'd have loved oscars but obviously thats out of the question with what i currently have.

 

[seangee]

I use Tropco and have never had any health issues with their stock. And they give the real names of the fish on their site with usually accurate profiles. I would ask them if their DGs are imported or locally bred. They are quite helpful on the phone. If they are imported all bets are off. If they are locally bred they are probably OK.

 

[Lcc86]

oh goodness, i didn't know about that. would the 2 i've had now about 3 weeks, have shown any signs of anything by now? i hope i am not being naive when saying this, but i have visited quite alot of fish shops over the last few months and i haven't wanted to buy any fish from them after seeing their tanks etc, but i've seen quite a few videos from inside tropco and their tanks/fish all looked great, then again, the tanks are kept empty from what i seen so no plants etc or substrate, maybe that isn't giving the best idea of if their standards are very high, but i thought they were trustworthy. it's where i've gotten all my fish from. if there is a better website out there then i'm open to suggestions too. i will also look into local breeders of fish next time too. thanks for that

also interesting about the names too. would i be ok with these with rainbow fish at all? with the ones i have?

and i hear what you're saying about having too many mix and match fish. i wish i had known alot more about this before i stocked my tank as it is already as i'd have loved oscars but obviously thats out of the question with what i currently have.

I wondered if you ordered your fish from there when you said you'd ordered their goop thingy. I've ordered from there and only lost 2 fish out of the 20 or so total I ordered, one I think jumped out the bag too quickly and may have died of shock, the other didn't look right from the start and died a few days after I got him. It's difficult to say with LFS, I did loads of research and tropco's online reviews were really good which is why I bought from there. I don't know if you got your original batch of fish in person or online but I suppose the big downsides of ordering online are you can't check the fish or ask questions beforehand about what may/may not work - they'll just see an order for X fish and fulfil it.

 

[jen1313]

I use Tropco and have never had any health issues with their stock. And they give the real names of the fish on their site with usually accurate profiles. I would ask them if their DGs are imported or locally bred. They are quite helpful on the phone. If they are imported all bets are off. If they are locally bred they are probably OK.

i spke with her on the phone before and she said she knows about the DG and their disease but they've never had any complaints from anyone whos purchased from them and they are all looking good and wouldn't sell any that werent. which i knwo the latter to be true as i ordered a different fish originally and they rang me and said the main manager wasn't happy to send the fish out as they didn't like the look of them so non would be being sold.

i guess its a wait and see

 

[jen1313]

I wondered if you ordered your fish from there when you said you'd ordered their goop thingy. I've ordered from there and only lost 2 fish out of the 20 or so total I ordered, one I think jumped out the bag too quickly and may have died of shock, the other didn't look right from the start and died a few days after I got him. It's difficult to say with LFS, I did loads of research and tropco's online reviews were really good which is why I bought from there. I don't know if you got your original batch of fish in person or online but I suppose the big downsides of ordering online are you can't check the fish or ask questions beforehand about what may/may not work - they'll just see an order for X fish and fulfil it.

yeah all fish have been bought from tropco online, i too seen good reviews and i also called them before they sent the fish and checked they were compatable with each other, again, no one mentioned about the hardness water difference to me on the phone, i wish they had but that probably falls more on me for not lookign into things more, i have certainly learned alot since getting those fish. i just haven't liked the conditions in my LFS, they all look a bit dirty and i question the background of em, at least tropco seem to have good people working for them that know their stuff.
i went to a fish store by me at the weekend and when you walked in there was about a 6/7ft tank long but very narrow, inside had about 8 fish, really massive ones, at least 30cm++ and lots and lots of wood. the fish were barely able to turn around let alone swim, i asked the woman if they should be in that tank and she said "oh yes that fish actually could be in a smaller tank they've been in there 7 years", and i thought well maybe yeah on its own, without the massive amount of wood and other 7 fish, but not as they were. as soon as i seen that i was out from buying from there.