Water changes causing fish deaths
- Thread starter Myrkk
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Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
I'll have more data today. I'll test the samples I left out overnight.
Test the tank and use one more sample with the addition of the flourite.
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
Latest:
Straight RO with no minerals added after 24 hours
RO with Equilibrium and alkaline/acid buffer. It’s about 7.8. More orange than brown but pic throws it off.
I added fluorite to a 3rd sample to test tonight.
Also my hospital tank with the same treated ro water is still 6.8 but now 0 kh. Modeling closer to the straight ro. Maybe the substrate I used there did opposite.
My larger water containers were still around 7 ph so most likely taking longer to climb and catch up. All treated RO still tested 4 kh
Maybe with RO I don’t use the alkaline buffer going forward. Seems to be the only one climbing only slightly. I’ll keep watching over the next 2 days. Then headed in vacation.
Straight RO with no minerals added after 24 hours
RO with Equilibrium and alkaline/acid buffer. It’s about 7.8. More orange than brown but pic throws it off.
I added fluorite to a 3rd sample to test tonight.
Also my hospital tank with the same treated ro water is still 6.8 but now 0 kh. Modeling closer to the straight ro. Maybe the substrate I used there did opposite.
My larger water containers were still around 7 ph so most likely taking longer to climb and catch up. All treated RO still tested 4 kh
Maybe with RO I don’t use the alkaline buffer going forward. Seems to be the only one climbing only slightly. I’ll keep watching over the next 2 days. Then headed in vacation.
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I use RO water with equilibrium in my tank. I suffered through this whole PH issue on my own. I personally believe that measuring PH in low alkalinity water/zero alkalinity water to be futile. Without buffering, the PH of the water can swing wildly from low to high with the blowing of the wind. I could swirl my PH probe around in pure RO water and the values will keep changing. It could take several minutes of swirling it around until it settled on values near 7 (Hanna PH checker). At first I was using aquasoil with my low alkalinity tap water and was seeing a ph in the low 5's. It was frustrating.
Now I use the same amount of Equilibrium and Alkalinity in my water change bucket with each water change. I just try to be consistent and change about 50% a week. I mix everything up, use an airstone and a heater in each bucket before adding it to the aquarium. My Apex probes still show changes in PH from day to night, as I am not adding very much alkalinity. I am keeping live plants. The fish aren't talking, but they don't seem to mind as long as they are fed
. I haven't lost any fish even though I know that doesn't totally paint a picture of perfect conditions.
It really stinks when you have bad tap water. The PH at my house can be as high as 9 with almost no alkalinity. How that happens, I am not sure.
Additionally, I found my pretreated tap water seemed to have pipe corrosion inhibiters in it, (at least that was what was suggested by my local water authority). It formed a milky white skim on the water. So even if the water supplier can guarantee that their samples are good, there could be issues between where it leaves the water treatment plant and gets to your place. Unlikely I would guess, but possible. Our water is pumped up to a tower, and that feeds the neighborhood.
From the Culligan website fwiw:
Now I use the same amount of Equilibrium and Alkalinity in my water change bucket with each water change. I just try to be consistent and change about 50% a week. I mix everything up, use an airstone and a heater in each bucket before adding it to the aquarium. My Apex probes still show changes in PH from day to night, as I am not adding very much alkalinity. I am keeping live plants. The fish aren't talking, but they don't seem to mind as long as they are fed
. I haven't lost any fish even though I know that doesn't totally paint a picture of perfect conditions. It really stinks when you have bad tap water. The PH at my house can be as high as 9 with almost no alkalinity. How that happens, I am not sure.
Additionally, I found my pretreated tap water seemed to have pipe corrosion inhibiters in it, (at least that was what was suggested by my local water authority). It formed a milky white skim on the water. So even if the water supplier can guarantee that their samples are good, there could be issues between where it leaves the water treatment plant and gets to your place. Unlikely I would guess, but possible. Our water is pumped up to a tower, and that feeds the neighborhood.
From the Culligan website fwiw:
What is Not Removed by Reverse Osmosis?
Because there are some contaminants that are molecularly smaller than water, Reverse Osmosis isn’t always the silver bullet many people expect when it comes to providing water that’s completely free of impurities. For example, some common contaminants that can slip through the average RO filter are:- Pesticides
- Herbicides
- Many other agricultural treatment products like fungicides
- Some dissolved gasses, like hydrogen sulfide
- Certain organic compounds
- Chlorine — RO can remove various quantities of chlorine, but there is a possibility that the average home RO filter may not have the capacity to capture all the chlorine present in water, though this will largely depend on the chemical’s concentrations in the water supply.
This is from SeaChem:
Since Flourite is a natural mineral, there is a possibility that there may be differences in mineral composition that cause a slight impact on pH, such as binding H+ ions to its surface.
Since Flourite is a natural mineral, there is a possibility that there may be differences in mineral composition that cause a slight impact on pH, such as binding H+ ions to its surface.
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
Well, so far the treated RO water has risen. PH quite a bit. I will see what happens with the fluorite added.
Is the equilibrium different to the alkaline/ acid buffer?
If they are 2 different products, you probably don't need the alkaline/ acid buffer. That will be raising the pH and is not necessary if you keep software fishes that naturally occur in a low pH (tetras, angelfish, Corydoras, rasboras, etc).
I just googled Seachem equilibrium and it buffers the general hardness (GH). This is not necessary if you keep softwater fishes like tetras, but is necessary if you keep livebearers, rainbowfish, goldfish or African rift Lake cichlids.
What fishes do you keep?
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
They are different. Equilibrium is for gh and alkaline / acid to establish and buffer kh
The alkaline acid buffer might be sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda sold at supermarkets), which would explain the sudden and massive jump in pH. This is usually the main ingredient in cheap KH buffers. The best KH buffers don't raise the pH much if at all and are usually made from calcium carbonate or calcium bicarbonate.
If you want to raise the pH a bit, you could use shells, limestone rock, or dead coral rubble. These are all made from calcium carbonate and will raise the pH a bit (depending on how much you have in the tank) and stop the pH dropping. They also last for years so you save a heap of money by not buying pH/ KH buffer. However, it depends on the fish you keep. If you have tetras and Corydoras, you don't need to buffer the pH or KH for those fish because they naturally occur in soft acid water (GH below 100ppm and pH below 7.0).
If you want to raise the pH a bit, you could use shells, limestone rock, or dead coral rubble. These are all made from calcium carbonate and will raise the pH a bit (depending on how much you have in the tank) and stop the pH dropping. They also last for years so you save a heap of money by not buying pH/ KH buffer. However, it depends on the fish you keep. If you have tetras and Corydoras, you don't need to buffer the pH or KH for those fish because they naturally occur in soft acid water (GH below 100ppm and pH below 7.0).
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
So I just went to look at Seachem's website and it is a sodium bicarbonate buffer. So my RO water seems to raise to about 6.4 after a day. I'm going to test again today to see if it went up more or if that is where it rests.
I still have my 3 water samples and testing each day; 1 just RO, 1 treated with Equilibrium and alkaline/acid buffer and 1 treated the same with flourite in it.
In the end, I could just remineralize with equilibrium and not use the alkaline/acid buffer if the ph seems to stick to low 6's and just add the coral as you mentioned.
I still have my 3 water samples and testing each day; 1 just RO, 1 treated with Equilibrium and alkaline/acid buffer and 1 treated the same with flourite in it.
In the end, I could just remineralize with equilibrium and not use the alkaline/acid buffer if the ph seems to stick to low 6's and just add the coral as you mentioned.
Well that explains one thing, why the pH is jumping.
You can buy a box of sodium bicarbonate from a supermarket for a few dollars if you need a buffer. You could also use less of it so the pH doesn't go as high.
Maybe do a test with just the alkaline/ acid buffer and see what it's like.
It depends on what fish you keep. If you have tetras you probably don't need to remineralise at all or only use a small amount.
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
Right now, all I have are the tetras and one Amano shrimp and 1 Pleco. I am keeping the tank to all soft water fish. Eventually will probably get to angelfish again. Since I decided to go to the plant route, I just picked up a CO2 art system and I’m going to very slowly introduce the CO2 week by week until I get established.
Like you said, drop to less of the buffer and do a test with water to see how it reacts. That seems to be what needs to happen. I will be checking all of my samples today to see what the differences are to my jump and anything else in that tank was making it even worse.
SeaChem sent me a calculator spreadsheet for precisely dialing in the pH and KH using their Akalinity and Acid Buffers. You type in the desired alkalinity, current alkalinity, and volume of water to get the exact amounts to dose. End-User Alkaline Buffer Calculator.xlsx
Enable editing in the spreadsheet to get the dynamic calculations to update.
Enable editing in the spreadsheet to get the dynamic calculations to update.
Sleeveless
Fish Fanatic
Yea. I have that too. I have what I’m calling my final results. The alkaline buffer may get you your kh but it is definitely what is pushing my ph to 8. I just took today’s samples. After 48 hours:
Straight RO is still 6.4 ph
Treated RO with equilibrium and alkaline/acid is now 8
Treated with fluorite: 8
So going to try very little next time and if it still kicks it to 8 then I’m going crushed coral for my ph/kh
Means their calculator is no good if their product still spikes to 8ph no matter what dosage you use.
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With the Acid buffer instructions it says to add daily to reach the pH you want. "As Acid Buffer™ lowers pH it converts carbonate alkalinity (KH) into available CO2." Does daily dose of Acid Buffer alone to keep the pH down or it just keeps going up? I would hope a balance would be reached eventually so a daily dose would not be required anymore and the pH would be stable. CO2 injection would certainly keep the pH down and plants would love it.
I have an interest in making aquarium water like you are doing as well.
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