Today's a new day.

[Seisage]

Now for question of the day: Why is the local government accusing hobbyists of doing the wrong thing i.e. mining in national parks while they're literally trying to save species from extinction? And how do hobbyists deal with the government when they're told no when getting rare species?

I've already talked about this issue in a previous thread of yours, but I'll try to approach the subject from a different angle. I know the WA government is different than the US, but there are a some things that still apply, regardless of a country/state's government. I've been involved in various conservation programs, so I have some knowledge and experience on the subject. What I say below has almost nothing to do with government, and more to do with conservation science.

1. Breeding in captivity is not always the best way to save a species. Some species are incredibly difficult to breed and require huge amounts of money and resources, to the point where the cost to produce even one new individual is too high to be sustainable for a long-term breeding program.

2. For species that are difficult to breed, it is much better to put money and effort into protecting the habitat itself. That way, you don't have to risk stressing out the fish in captive conditions. If you can manage to create a clean, protected habitat, that will always, always, always be better for conservation than captive breeding.

3. There can be concerns about bringing species into captivity and then releasing them into the wild later. For aquatic species, the concern is primarily pathogens. Even if your aquarium is pristine, your fish may pick up parasites or other diseases, and they might not show symptoms. If you then release those fish back into the wild, they could spread that disease to the rest of the population.

4. Rare species are rare for a reason. If you collect a bunch of them from the wild, even if you have good intentions, you are further reducing the wild population and making them even more rare.

5. Genetics are important. Many species bred in captivity start to genetically drift from wild populations, even if you don't intentionally try to breed for a certain trait. Do you know how to properly set up a breeding program that limits inbreeding and promotes the best genetics? Do you know how to maintain genetic similarity to wild populations? Do you know how to maintain large stocks of fish for genetic diversity? Are you outcrossing to wild individuals? Breeding for genetic strength and maintaining genetic purity can be extremely difficult, even for conservation scientists. It's even more difficult with rare species since they have much smaller genetic pools to work with. Hobbyists rarely have the resources to maintain a robust captive breeding program for rare species where genetic purity is crucial.

6. This is more of a personal opinion, but people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want. Regardless of whether they're enforced in a way you agree with, laws are made for a reason. If anyone and everyone were allowed to collect rare, endangered fish, what do you think would happen to that species? It could go extinct in the wild in a matter of months. It doesn't matter if you have good intentions. Law enforcement doesn't have the time and energy to do background checks on everyone who wants rare wild fish to make sure they have proper setups and a breeding program. If you're told "no, you can't collect this endangered fish", you need to suck it up and follow the laws.

7. I encourage you to try to reach out to actual conservation scientists, if you can get a hold of any, or try to do some of your own research about wildlife conservation. Zoos are probably the best place to find people who run conservation programs that are based on science. Ask them how they set up their breeding programs, ask them about which species they don't have breeding programs for and why, ask them what it takes to set up a breeding program, ask them about collection laws and what rules they have to follow. There's a lot more to this issue than you might think, and it's an egregious oversimplification to reduce it to "hobbyists are good and correct and the government is evil and wrong".

 

[elephantnose3334]

There are rarities in the world of stamps. Some say they're hundreds of years old.

I've already talked about this issue in a previous thread of yours, but I'll try to approach the subject from a different angle. I know the WA government is different than the US, but there are a some things that still apply, regardless of a country/state's government. I've been involved in various conservation programs, so I have some knowledge and experience on the subject. What I say below has almost nothing to do with government, and more to do with conservation science.

1. Breeding in captivity is not always the best way to save a species. Some species are incredibly difficult to breed and require huge amounts of money and resources, to the point where the cost to produce even one new individual is too high to be sustainable for a long-term breeding program.

2. For species that are difficult to breed, it is much better to put money and effort into protecting the habitat itself. That way, you don't have to risk stressing out the fish in captive conditions. If you can manage to create a clean, protected habitat, that will always, always, always be better for conservation than captive breeding.

3. There can be concerns about bringing species into captivity and then releasing them into the wild later. For aquatic species, the concern is primarily pathogens. Even if your aquarium is pristine, your fish may pick up parasites or other diseases, and they might not show symptoms. If you then release those fish back into the wild, they could spread that disease to the rest of the population.

4. Rare species are rare for a reason. If you collect a bunch of them from the wild, even if you have good intentions, you are further reducing the wild population and making them even more rare.

5. Genetics are important. Many species bred in captivity start to genetically drift from wild populations, even if you don't intentionally try to breed for a certain trait. Do you know how to properly set up a breeding program that limits inbreeding and promotes the best genetics? Do you know how to maintain genetic similarity to wild populations? Do you know how to maintain large stocks of fish for genetic diversity? Are you outcrossing to wild individuals? Breeding for genetic strength and maintaining genetic purity can be extremely difficult, even for conservation scientists. It's even more difficult with rare species since they have much smaller genetic pools to work with. Hobbyists rarely have the resources to maintain a robust captive breeding program for rare species where genetic purity is crucial.

6. This is more of a personal opinion, but people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want. Regardless of whether they're enforced in a way you agree with, laws are made for a reason. If anyone and everyone were allowed to collect rare, endangered fish, what do you think would happen to that species? It could go extinct in the wild in a matter of months. It doesn't matter if you have good intentions. Law enforcement doesn't have the time and energy to do background checks on everyone who wants rare wild fish to make sure they have proper setups and a breeding program. If you're told "no, you can't collect this endangered fish", you need to suck it up and follow the laws.

7. I encourage you to try to reach out to actual conservation scientists, if you can get a hold of any, or try to do some of your own research about wildlife conservation. Zoos are probably the best place to find people who run conservation programs that are based on science. Ask them how they set up their breeding programs, ask them about which species they don't have breeding programs for and why, ask them what it takes to set up a breeding program, ask them about collection laws and what rules they have to follow. There's a lot more to this issue than you might think, and it's an egregious oversimplification to reduce it to "hobbyists are good and correct and the government is evil and wrong".

Yes, I know that but I have to agree with you. We can try to save rare fish by breeding them, but sometimes it's not the case. When I'm an adult, I can do my own captive breeding program, but this can get difficult at times because I'm new to it. Some expert hobbyists, but not all of them, are allowed to capture a small number of rare fish, but not overfishing the population, if our government allows the small number of expert hobbyists to do that. I understand some stuff might happen, but I am part of a generation who wants to save species from climate change and other threats.

Expert (not beginner) hobbyists are trying to do their part in conservation of freshwater fish because there is limited information about their habitat and they are trying to breed those fish to conserve rare populations. A few of them aren't allowed to get fish in the wild due to government laws. Some of the laws, such as blanket bans on any native fish may hurt the hobby because the fishkeeping hobby from Australia could take more action in conservation projects. If we can save tigers, why not save Southwestern Australian freshwater fish? But I understand on what you are trying to say, @Seisage.

Sometimes, we can release captive bred fish in the wild in hope to increase the wild population. ANGFA did this with an undescribed rainbowfish species that lives in the Running River, NSW. This can happen in the future, but we can only save their habitat by raising money for organisations that involve wetland conservation. Number 7 is the best choice I would take. Zoos are helpful, but the Perth Zoo does not have any freshwater fish in any of their exhibits. They seem to focus on numbats and exotic animals. But other zoos might have them.

The hobby is everchanging and we seem to focus more on conservation of wetland fish as we delve into the future. I understand on your opinions and I accept your opinion. I'm only young and still learning, but conservation is important for most fish, but not all of them. Thanks for the information.

 

[elephantnose3334]

I've been discussing this for a long time, and it's about the Southwestern Australian orchids. I don't know how or why the government decided to burn them in the springtime instead of the autumn. I do have to say something though, orchids are extremely interesting to know about. A love of rare stuff has been turned into an obsession. Literally. In conservation of rare stuff, I can say that some are doing well, other are not doing so well. We like people who conserve rare stuff. Planning to do stuff currently. I have never seen native orchids before, where can I see them in Perth?

 

[Seisage]

Expert (not beginner) hobbyists are trying to do their part in conservation of freshwater fish because there is limited information about their habitat and they are trying to breed those fish to conserve rare populations. A few of them aren't allowed to get fish in the wild due to government laws. Some of the laws, such as blanket bans on any native fish may hurt the hobby because the fishkeeping hobby from Australia could take more action in conservation projects. If we can save tigers, why not save Southwestern Australian freshwater fish? But I understand on what you are trying to say, @Seisage.

I'm only young and still learning, but conservation is important for most fish, but not all of them.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be conservation for freshwater fish. There definitely should be! Freshwater fish are just as important as tigers and should be conserved as well.

What I'm saying is that independent hobbyist breeding programs are not going to be the best option for conservation for many species. Breeding programs can be very helpful for SOME species, but others do not thrive and do not breed in captivity. In all situations, the habitat needs to be protected first, because even if the captive breeding is very successful, if you release the animals into an unprotected habitat and they die, all of that breeding effort would be for nothing. Additionally, it takes a lot of genetic knowledge and a lot of space and a lot of fish in order to set up a proper breeding program for conservation purposes. As I said, it's not just about producing new fish, you also have to make sure they're healthy and that their genetics remain similar to wild individuals.

What would be fantastic is if hobbyists could officially partner with zoos and aquariums. That way, conservation scientists could help create a proper breeding plan and the hobbyists could use some of the resources from the zoo, but the zoo doesn't have to worry about running everything themselves because the hobbyists could volunteer their labor and might already have some knowledge about how to care for the species.

The primary reason zoos like the Perth Zoo don't have conservation programs for obscure or rare fish is because obscure fish and other groups of animals (especially invertebrates) are not very popular. It's a very sad reality, but the money that pays for zoo conservation programs comes mostly from the general public and maybe some nonprofit organizations. Tigers and numbats and other mammals are charismatic and cute, so most people care about them. You and I and other people on the forum and in ANGFA care a lot about rare fish, but the general public usually doesn't care, so they don't donate money for conserving fish species. There are many, many zoo employees who wish they could start conservation programs for obscure or unpopular species, but there just isn't enough money for it.

 

[elephantnose3334]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be conservation for freshwater fish. There definitely should be! Freshwater fish are just as important as tigers and should be conserved as well.

What I'm saying is that independent hobbyist breeding programs are not going to be the best option for conservation for many species. Breeding programs can be very helpful for SOME species, but others do not thrive and do not breed in captivity. In all situations, the habitat needs to be protected first, because even if the captive breeding is very successful, if you release the animals into an unprotected habitat and they die, all of that breeding effort would be for nothing. Additionally, it takes a lot of genetic knowledge and a lot of space and a lot of fish in order to set up a proper breeding program for conservation purposes. As I said, it's not just about producing new fish, you also have to make sure they're healthy and that their genetics remain similar to wild individuals.

What would be fantastic is if hobbyists could officially partner with zoos and aquariums. That way, conservation scientists could help create a proper breeding plan and the hobbyists could use some of the resources from the zoo, but the zoo doesn't have to worry about running everything themselves because the hobbyists could volunteer their labor and might already have some knowledge about how to care for the species.

The primary reason zoos like the Perth Zoo don't have conservation programs for obscure or rare fish is because obscure fish and other groups of animals (especially invertebrates) are not very popular. It's a very sad reality, but the money that pays for zoo conservation programs comes mostly from the general public and maybe some nonprofit organizations. Tigers and numbats and other mammals are charismatic and cute, so most people care about them. You and I and other people on the forum and in ANGFA care a lot about rare fish, but the general public usually doesn't care, so they don't donate money for conserving fish species. There are many, many zoo employees who wish they could start conservation programs for obscure or unpopular species, but there just isn't enough money for it.

Hmm... Our fish guru @Colin_T tried his very best on breeding rare fish, such as western minnows (galaxias). He had to deal with some government setbacks when he wanted to catch fish in the wild in hopes to conserve the said fish. I understand that our government laws are not as helpful as your USA Fish and Wildlife departments.

Good afternoon @Colin_T. Apologies for waking you up today. How was your day? Did some watercolour art today and will post it in a few hours' time. I might give an artwork to ANGFA for an important cause. I have an understanding that ANGFA are here for a good cause, to save rare fish, like the Lake Eacham rainbowfish. Might go to Cairns over east to go to the ANGFA convention for this year, held in September. I assume it's held for 3 days, but I might stay at Cairns for a week or two with mum just in case. The remainder of the week or two will be exploring around Cairns. We haven't booked yet, but thinking of booking to the flight and the convention. Again, ANGFA is here for an important cause (Aussie freshwater fish) and they try their best in saving species from extinction. The ANGFA team might collaborate with zoos in the near future.

A good uniform, personality, Quarantine WA contacting before I go to Cairns, and tanks is all I need to do for the convention. When all my tetras die in the 41L tall tank, I might convert it into a small blue-eye rainbowfish tank. If I get more blue-eyes than I expected, a 20 gallon tank is all I need. It's a journey of fish collecting, talks and other stuff that happen into the convention. I feel scared at first, but as you go there more, it will be fine. Will I do fine in the ANGFA convention in Cairns, @Colin_T?

 

[elephantnose3334]

This thread is a diary of myself and what I do currently. Tomorrow is a month that I first posted it. Rainbows and tetras galore. Interesting things can happen sometimes. Just double checking on myself, apparently everything is okay. Focus, breathe, calm. I'm feeling scared at first until I realise that it's not as scary as I thought. Fish is the dominant thing I have discussed in the thread.

 

[elephantnose3334]

It's native fish time. The western and pygmy rainbowfish are native to Northwestern Australia, only the pygmies have a more restricted range than the western rainbows. And the rainbows are great to keep, but not found in Perth LFS's unfortunately. The pygmy rainbows I have never heard of. Just need to figure a way out for the rainbows. I believe the pygmies are found in the Kimberley region up north. I wonder we hobbyists from Perth can start a conservation project for fish in the northwest and southwest regions for some species.

 

[Colin_T]

Native orchids pop up in late autumn and early winter when it starts raining. They usually start flowering at the end of winter and into spring. The plants are small and generally less than 10-12 inches high, many have a single stem or leaf and a small flower. You should be able to find some in most areas of bushland around Perth but you have to look down and be careful where you walk. Once you have seen a few of them and know what to look for, they are easy to spot but most people walk straight past or on them without even realising what they are.

The more common native orchids around Perth are Caladenia species, Diruis sp and Pterostylis sp.

Sometimes there are locals that do tours around areas of native bush and they can show you the different plants.

----------------------

Sometimes people get uniforms (Police, ranger, fisheries, etc) and the uniform makes them think they are more powerful than the average person. In some cases the uniform does give them certain abilities (like Police arresting criminals) but other times the people use the uniform to overstep their power and think they are better than everyone else. This is quite common in council rangers who put on a khaki uniform and suddenly think they have the same powers as a Police officer, when in fact they don't. Fisheries officers are the same and think because they are wearing a blue uniform that looks similar to a cop's uniform, they are more powerful and important then you and I.

In relation to rangers busting me for mining in a national park because I had a 2 litre bucket of clay. That was simply a ranger informing me I had apparently entered a national park and stolen mineral rich soil from the national park, even though there were no signs up saying it was a national park. We returned the clay and left. I wasn't going to get into an argument with him over a 2 litre bucket of clay that may or may not have been taken from an alleged national park.

----------------------

People should as a rule obey the laws set out by government but there are some really stupid laws that I disagree with and have broken numerous times. Sleeping in a car is one law I disagree with and broke every night while living on the street. The tourism industry lobbied the federal government to enact a law saying nobody can sleep in their car. This was aimed at tourists so they had to pay to sleep at registered camp sites, caravan parks or hotels and motels. The federal government enacted the law and made local government (councils) enforce the law.

If you are driving around Australia there are designated rest areas along major country roads. The state governments spend millions of dollars making these areas and advertising for drivers to stop and rest there so they are less likely to fall asleep at the wheel and crash their vehicle. It is illegal to sleep in your car at those rest areas because of this federal law. There are over 100,000 homeless people in Australia currently and many of them sleep in their cars for safety reasons (being attacked by other people) and protection from the elements. They are all breaking this law. Homeless mothers with children are breaking this law because they have nowhere to live. The tourism industry got greedy and wanted every cent they could get from people visiting Australia. And this law is adversely affecting poor homeless people, who in most cases are homeless because the state governments haven't build any public housing for 20 years, and because the state and federal governments screwed up when dealing with the pandemic.

-----

There are other laws as well including cannabis being illegal. It does less damage to people than alcohol or smoking, yet it's illegal to have anything cannabis related on you or in your possession (this includes seeds). Over 80% of Police callouts are alcohol related (about 5% of Police callouts are drug related and that includes all drugs, not just cannabis). Alcohol causes about 20 different types of cancer in the body and it destroys the mind and quite often leads to domestic violence at home and fights in the street. Virtually every Police office in the country (and around the world) has been threatened, abused, spat at, or assaulted by people under the influence of alcohol. I doubt that any cop in the world has had that happen to them from someone who is under the effect of cannabis.

Cannabis has been banned because various pharmaceutical companies and church groups pressured the governments to make it illegal. This was on top of the US having an anti-drugs campaign going and low and behold, cannabis gets outlawed. It's a double standard whereby alcohol and smoking are allowed because they make lots of money for the government (from taxes and sponsoring by the alcohol and tobacco companies) but cannabis is banned. Alcohol and smoking cause cancer, cannabis actually kills cancer. There is a term called the cannabis paradox and people who regularly smoke cannabis don't get lung cancer but people who smoke normal cigarettes do get lung cancer.

I don't think young people (under 26 years old) should be using cannabis, but if the government is banning cannabis because they claim its harmful for society, they should also ban alcohol and cigarettes because they are more harmful. They need to look at the science behind all three products and then ban the dangerous ones that destroy families and cause cancer. They could also put some money into researching cannabis for cancer cures and other medical treatments instead of leaving it up to private organisations who have to spend huge amounts of money just to get a license to work with the product. FYI, I don't use cannabis and never have. It's just a double standard where they leave harmful substances on the shelf at supermarkets where anyone 18yrs or older can buy them, but ban a relatively harmless substance that could have medicinal value.

-----

There are other stupid laws too including being charged with taking fish from a drying waterway in a national park (and also outside the national park) and moving them to a different location, when 200 meters up the road, a government department is filling in the pools and covering them with bitumen.

It's illegal for me to set fire to the bush but government departments can do it anytime, including in spring when endangered plants and animals are trying to reproduce.

It's illegal for me to dig up and relocate native plants that are going to be bulldozed or covered in concrete or bitumen, but it's ok for the private companies and government departments to destroy those plants.

It's illegal for me to spray any type of poison in a public place but councils do it every day when spraying carcinogenic herbicide on footpaths, around parks and gardens and even around schools where children spend their days learning and playing.

It's illegal for me to lie in court or at the CCC but when Police officers do it (and it was proven they lied), it's not an issue according to the courts and government.

It's not illegal for JPs (Justice of the Peace) to not follow protocol and wrongfully issue violence restraining orders (vro) against innocent people but it's illegal for me to swear at them when they have done it. And that vro cost me everything I owned including my girl's ashes.

There are some good laws out there that help to protect mainstream society, but there are also some really stupid laws and double standards that apply to rich and powerful people or people who work for the government, and those same laws don't apply to the average citizen.

I have broken laws and I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time, and I still think it was the right thing to do many years later. I have been charged by Police and council rangers for trying to save animals from burning bushland, fish from drying waterways, and even abusing a court worker (JP & magistrate) because they screwed up. I was held in the court jail for calling a magistrate a dickhead after he sentenced a drunk driver to 6 months probation after he killed a friend of mine when he drove through an intersection while under the influence of alcohol. The drunk driver had a long history of driving under the influence and crashes while drunk but nobody cared. Debby's family cared and they got a life sentence because of that drunk bastard. I don't normally break the laws but if I think something needs to be done and nobody is doing it, I will do it and to hell with the laws.

I don't think people should break laws under normal circumstances but if you see one that appears wrong, write to the government and tell them. They probably won't do anything about it but at least you tried to fix the system.

----------------------

If you have family in Cairns, you are lucky. Stay with them for 1-2 weeks, go to the conference and do some collecting. There are more than a dozen species of rainbowfish living around Cairns. If you do go there for collecting and the conference, some of the locals might have gear you can borrow or they will give you some of the fish they catch. If not I can tell you how to collect fish.

If you get wild caught native fishes from Queensland or anywhere else, try to have a clean tank for them. This means an aquarium that hasn't had any fish, plants, snails or shrimp from pet shops in them. You want clean gravel, a clean filter and ornaments, and clean plants (preferably tissue cultured). You also need separate buckets and gravel cleaners for those tanks so they don't get anything transfered to them from other tanks. This means any wild caught fish you put in this tank won't catch any of the diseases found in pet shops and that includes things like Fish TB and intestinal worms.

Virtually all native fishes in Australia should have some salt added to their buckets and tanks when they are first caught and for the first 2 weeks they are in captivity. having a bag of rock salt on hand before you go will help increase their survival.

 

[Colin_T]

Pygmy rainbows (Melanotaenia pygmaea) are found in the Prince Regent river in the Kimberley region in Western Australia in a national park. Dave Wilson at Aquagreen (see link below) has them for sale currently.

AQUAGREEN Catalog

AQUAGREEN Fact Sheet

 

[elephantnose3334]

Native orchids pop up in late autumn and early winter when it starts raining. They usually start flowering at the end of winter and into spring. The plants are small and generally less than 10-12 inches high, many have a single stem or leaf and a small flower. You should be able to find some in most areas of bushland around Perth but you have to look down and be careful where you walk. Once you have seen a few of them and know what to look for, they are easy to spot but most people walk straight past or on them without even realising what they are.

The more common native orchids around Perth are Caladenia species, Diruis sp and Pterostylis sp.

Sometimes there are locals that do tours around areas of native bush and they can show you the different plants.

----------------------

Sometimes people get uniforms (Police, ranger, fisheries, etc) and the uniform makes them think they are more powerful than the average person. In some cases the uniform does give them certain abilities (like Police arresting criminals) but other times the people use the uniform to overstep their power and think they are better than everyone else. This is quite common in council rangers who put on a khaki uniform and suddenly think they have the same powers as a Police officer, when in fact they don't. Fisheries officers are the same and think because they are wearing a blue uniform that looks similar to a cop's uniform, they are more powerful and important then you and I.

In relation to rangers busting me for mining in a national park because I had a 2 litre bucket of clay. That was simply a ranger informing me I had apparently entered a national park and stolen mineral rich soil from the national park, even though there were no signs up saying it was a national park. We returned the clay and left. I wasn't going to get into an argument with him over a 2 litre bucket of clay that may or may not have been taken from an alleged national park.

----------------------

People should as a rule obey the laws set out by government but there are some really stupid laws that I disagree with and have broken numerous times. Sleeping in a car is one law I disagree with and broke every night while living on the street. The tourism industry lobbied the federal government to enact a law saying nobody can sleep in their car. This was aimed at tourists so they had to pay to sleep at registered camp sites, caravan parks or hotels and motels. The federal government enacted the law and made local government (councils) enforce the law.

If you are driving around Australia there are designated rest areas along major country roads. The state governments spend millions of dollars making these areas and advertising for drivers to stop and rest there so they are less likely to fall asleep at the wheel and crash their vehicle. It is illegal to sleep in your car at those rest areas because of this federal law. There are over 100,000 homeless people in Australia currently and many of them sleep in their cars for safety reasons (being attacked by other people) and protection from the elements. They are all breaking this law. Homeless mothers with children are breaking this law because they have nowhere to live. The tourism industry got greedy and wanted every cent they could get from people visiting Australia. And this law is adversely affecting poor homeless people, who in most cases are homeless because the state governments haven't build any public housing for 20 years, and because the state and federal governments screwed up when dealing with the pandemic.

-----

There are other laws as well including cannabis being illegal. It does less damage to people than alcohol or smoking, yet it's illegal to have anything cannabis related on you or in your possession (this includes seeds). Over 80% of Police callouts are alcohol related (about 5% of Police callouts are drug related and that includes all drugs, not just cannabis). Alcohol causes about 20 different types of cancer in the body and it destroys the mind and quite often leads to domestic violence at home and fights in the street. Virtually every Police office in the country (and around the world) has been threatened, abused, spat at, or assaulted by people under the influence of alcohol. I doubt that any cop in the world has had that happen to them from someone who is under the effect of cannabis.

Cannabis has been banned because various pharmaceutical companies and church groups pressured the governments to make it illegal. This was on top of the US having an anti-drugs campaign going and low and behold, cannabis gets outlawed. It's a double standard whereby alcohol and smoking are allowed because they make lots of money for the government (from taxes and sponsoring by the alcohol and tobacco companies) but cannabis is banned. Alcohol and smoking cause cancer, cannabis actually kills cancer. There is a term called the cannabis paradox and people who regularly smoke cannabis don't get lung cancer but people who smoke normal cigarettes do get lung cancer.

I don't think young people (under 26 years old) should be using cannabis, but if the government is banning cannabis because they claim its harmful for society, they should also ban alcohol and cigarettes because they are more harmful. They need to look at the science behind all three products and then ban the dangerous ones that destroy families and cause cancer. They could also put some money into researching cannabis for cancer cures and other medical treatments instead of leaving it up to private organisations who have to spend huge amounts of money just to get a license to work with the product. FYI, I don't use cannabis and never have. It's just a double standard where they leave harmful substances on the shelf at supermarkets where anyone 18yrs or older can buy them, but ban a relatively harmless substance that could have medicinal value.

-----

There are other stupid laws too including being charged with taking fish from a drying waterway in a national park (and also outside the national park) and moving them to a different location, when 200 meters up the road, a government department is filling in the pools and covering them with bitumen.

It's illegal for me to set fire to the bush but government departments can do it anytime, including in spring when endangered plants and animals are trying to reproduce.

It's illegal for me to dig up and relocate native plants that are going to be bulldozed or covered in concrete or bitumen, but it's ok for the private companies and government departments to destroy those plants.

It's illegal for me to spray any type of poison in a public place but councils do it every day when spraying carcinogenic herbicide on footpaths, around parks and gardens and even around schools where children spend their days learning and playing.

It's illegal for me to lie in court or at the CCC but when Police officers do it (and it was proven they lied), it's not an issue according to the courts and government.

It's not illegal for JPs (Justice of the Peace) to not follow protocol and wrongfully issue violence restraining orders (vro) against innocent people but it's illegal for me to swear at them when they have done it. And that vro cost me everything I owned including my girl's ashes.

There are some good laws out there that help to protect mainstream society, but there are also some really stupid laws and double standards that apply to rich and powerful people or people who work for the government, and those same laws don't apply to the average citizen.

I have broken laws and I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time, and I still think it was the right thing to do many years later. I have been charged by Police and council rangers for trying to save animals from burning bushland, fish from drying waterways, and even abusing a court worker (JP & magistrate) because they screwed up. I was held in the court jail for calling a magistrate a dickhead after he sentenced a drunk driver to 6 months probation after he killed a friend of mine when he drove through an intersection while under the influence of alcohol. The drunk driver had a long history of driving under the influence and crashes while drunk but nobody cared. Debby's family cared and they got a life sentence because of that drunk bastard. I don't normally break the laws but if I think something needs to be done and nobody is doing it, I will do it and to hell with the laws.

I don't think people should break laws under normal circumstances but if you see one that appears wrong, write to the government and tell them. They probably won't do anything about it but at least you tried to fix the system.

----------------------

If you have family in Cairns, you are lucky. Stay with them for 1-2 weeks, go to the conference and do some collecting. There are more than a dozen species of rainbowfish living around Cairns. If you do go there for collecting and the conference, some of the locals might have gear you can borrow or they will give you some of the fish they catch. If not I can tell you how to collect fish.

If you get wild caught native fishes from Queensland or anywhere else, try to have a clean tank for them. This means an aquarium that hasn't had any fish, plants, snails or shrimp from pet shops in them. You want clean gravel, a clean filter and ornaments, and clean plants (preferably tissue cultured). You also need separate buckets and gravel cleaners for those tanks so they don't get anything transfered to them from other tanks. This means any wild caught fish you put in this tank won't catch any of the diseases found in pet shops and that includes things like Fish TB and intestinal worms.

Virtually all native fishes in Australia should have some salt added to their buckets and tanks when they are first caught and for the first 2 weeks they are in captivity. having a bag of rock salt on hand before you go will help increase their survival.

I absolutely agree with you. The art of fishkeeping in Australia will never give up and try their best to save rare species. I have cousins living in Cairns and it's rare to see them in-person. The rarest thing in the world is a good sense of place, and seeing rare stuff really helps exercise my creative muscles. I understand that our government has bad laws, including the VRO order. There needs to be something done about it. I could write a letter to Fisheries about native fish laws.

Endangered animals and plants deserve better. An understanding of endangered animals and doing marine biology and other stuff at TAFE is all I need to help out. About the situation you had, I understand that you're living in a bad situation lately. My biggest wish is to help all the world's hobbyists conserve fish populations, you included. I'm part of a growing generation that wants action, not silence. We hobbyists need to do something, probably a conservation project collaborated by the local zoo? Maybe, but we can work together as a team to save what's left of rare fish. I will join ANGFA and the other aquarium society clubs if there are any in Perth.

 

[elephantnose3334]

It's Monday and it's a month since I posted this thread. The tetras are doing okay. Thinking of doing a volunteer run project for wetland conservation. The greatest thing in the world that I have is the sense of belonging on this forum. Making new friends along the way. @Colin_T, if a salamanderfish was to be bred in captivity, does it need special stuff for it to survive captive conditions? What if expert hobbyists did breed the salamanderfish for its survival? Imagine a great hobbyist-made local organisation which helps some rare fish from extinction by surveying important fish habitat and breeding fish.

 

[elephantnose3334]

The world keeps spinning when we have good, thriving freshwater fish populations. I better need to do some marine bio at TAFE after graduating Year 12 and study all about fish here. The hobbyists can band together for an important cause. We just need to make it happen. I imagine that salamanderfish and a few other rare, obscure fish will be bred in captivity in the near future. We care about the fish, but it's very hard to do due to the stuff happening currently. If we have more trees and less roads, insect larvae will thrive in their habitat. Foodstuffs for salamanderfish include insect larvae. I think that this fish is an absolute favourite for local expert hobbyists, but obscure to many of the general public.

The unknown-ity of the salamanderfish intrigues me because this fish has been around since the age of dinosaurs. Just assuming it may have survived the asteroid during their evolution to what they look like today. I do care and admire this fish a lot.

 

[elephantnose3334]

It's native fish time. Just posted some artwork of rainbowfish and the salamanderfish, which I frequently mention now because they're my special interest. Today's native fish is the western pygmy perch. I thought they were absolutely legal to be sold in LFS's here. I see them now and again, but don't really know what will happen to them next... I do like pygmy perch, but not to an extent to those two fish mentioned. Really, the good thing about pygmy perch is that you can easily keep them and breed them.

I do need help with drawing freshwater fish from life, which I will do in the future. It is extremely difficult to do because they move very often. How can I do some good fish life drawings? I usually draw them from photos, but wanting to give fish life drawing a try.

I often discuss about fish, but gardening with them (ponds) takes it to a whole new level. I probably don't have enough space for a nice small pond because I live in a roughly 845sqm backyard. Do you guys have ponds?

 

[elephantnose3334]

I am starting to like the stuff that I talk about very frequently. I understand that the thing about my world is going to be different when I age. I am mostly independent and sometimes I need help in doing some stuff. I might go crazy over a live salamanderfish caught by an expert hobbyist. Indeed, the good hobbyist is the best thing the aquarium hobby have ever done. Like ANGFA, the hobbyist always commits to their hobby and may help save our rare fish from extinction. Likewise, ANGFA is mostly comprised with hobbyists like you and me. It's my opinion and I'm happy.

I understand that I am a chatterbox because I get slightly bored after school. Other than art and caring for the tetras, I go to the forum to check how myself is doing today. I do not like driving cars or motorcycles due to me being distracted very easily. That's why I sit in the passenger seat all the time.

The happy memories can go away in a while, so I may not remember much of my childhood. The greatest memory I had of fish was visiting one of Mum's friends' house with the greyhound and bull terrier. There was a massive saltwater tank sitting on a large table on the ground floor, and upstairs were the freshwater tanks. They were of different sizes, for bettas, barbs and a few others I might not remember. I wasn't interested in fish back then, but it would inspire me to like them since last year. The tanks are since removed from Mum's friends' house. But I got to know a few fish back then.

 

[GaryE]

Humans tend to create bureaucracies, and people in uniform often do like themselves a lot. But we need government and law to protect habitats. Individuals live short lives, and we can't save species. We can work together to save habitats. Every hobby initiative, like the C.A.R.E.S. program in North America, has started with great enthusiasm and then died. The Aquatic Conservation Network, the Killifish Conservation Committee - they've all barely functioned if at all. People don't stick with them.

I joined ANGFA, even from Canada, for one year. It was so I could download back issues of their superb hobbyist produced journal. It was a treasure trove of good reading about the fish of your region. I've dabbled in rainbow and blue eye keeping, and that organization has people who have gone far far beyond my level of learning. They are fantastic to read.

What you know, @elephantnose3334 is next to zero. I'm sure Colin and the other posters could say the same - we have barely scratched the surface. Put all our heads together, and you've got something. We've worked, studied, explored and all, but each of us can only do so much. It's good to step back and dive into the articles and studies written by people as curious as you, but who have looked into different angles.